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Where Invincible went wrong

mj_frenzy said:
According to Entertainment Weekly and the KING! fanzine:

"Michael would undergo a radical change of image to promote his new album … Many of his fashion staples - military epaulets, single sequined gloves - have to beat it from his wardrobe … According to stylists hired for recent Jackson photo shoots, Sony insists that fashion consultants sign a contract agreeing not to outfit the star in his old style relics … Tameka Foster, a stylist for Lauryn Hill and Toni Braxton, suggests a more subtle vibe … Jamie Kimmelman, an image consultant for Shania Twain and others, would dump the androgynous theatrics …" (Entertainment Weekly, KING! fanzine)

Generally, their aim was that Michael Jackson's image had to become a bit more regular.

Rodney Jerkins (who was working for Sony on the 'Invincible' album) also stated at that time that Michael Jackson needs to change, come out totally fresh, which explains also why the singer was forced to minimize the use of his vocal trademarks on his 'Invincible' album.
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Yeah, they did want to downplay the eccentricities and reinvent him, quote on quote. The hee-hees had basically become a tic and a point of ridicule in some circles. It still is a meme.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Invincible tracks have some of the best bridges in MJs career. Unbreakable, Heartbreaker, Invincible, Break of Dawn, YRMW, Butterflies. Just amazing harmonies and a great crescendo in them all.
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And, Invincible tracks are much easier to understand, lyrically, than many of the tracks from HIStory and BOTDF
 
Whoever decided the final track list of Invincible has a lot to answer for. If the cut tracks had replaced some of the dross on there it would’ve been a fantastic album.
 
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Kanye East said:
But those were cut from Invincible. Invincible shouldn't get points for having the best outtakes.
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We're talking about bridges in songs, not overall quality. Do You Know Where Your Children Are and Slave also have quite good bridges.
 
Salami said:
Whoever decided the final track list of Invincible has a lot to answer for. If the cut tracks had replaced some of the dross on there it would’ve been a fantastic album.
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You want the Chinese cut of the album? They cut a few tracks, maybe it'd be more satisfying to some here.

Invincible was supposed to be 11 tracks long. Nothing more, nothing less. Maybe it could've been the way some wanted if it came out in 2000.

Anyway why are we still complaining about an album that made Number 1 and still outsold almost all challengers. It's not Thriller, but that's okay. It's basically Dangerous 2.0. It would've been fine, if it just wasn't the final album MJ ended up making. As it is, it's markedly interesting as MJ's "Made in Heaven".
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
You want the Chinese cut of the album? They cut a few tracks, maybe it'd be more satisfying to some here.

Invincible was supposed to be 11 tracks long. Nothing more, nothing less. Maybe it could've been the way some wanted if it came out in 2000.

Anyway why are we still complaining about an album that made Number 1 and still outsold almost all challengers. It's not Thriller, but that's okay. It's basically Dangerous 2.0. It would've been fine, if it just wasn't the final album MJ ended up making. As it is, it's markedly interesting as MJ's "Made in Heaven".
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I think MJ was planning to make Invincible album the first part of big collection. Like History and BOTDF albums. 12th album would have all tracks, that MJ didn't have opportunity to place in Invincible album. And in my opinion would have much more cool stuff: like MJ classic videoclips. I guess it would be released in 2011. And HT would be the promo single with full clip 🤤🤤🤤
 
There are simply too many slow songs. They imo, aren't anything special. Feel super generic.
I also think 2000 Watts is a dumb song. Remove that, the ballads, and replace them with the unreleased tracks and it would have been a solid album. It makes me mad we still don't have a polished onbeat version of Xscape. The polished version released is a couple milliseconds off beat and the "original" is mastered poorly.
 
Very simple, it did not feel like a Michael Jackson album. It felt like something NSYNC, Britney Spears or The Backstreet Boys would have done (sans a few of the sappy songs). It wasn’t a horrible album, in fact for any of the aforementioned acts, it would have been STELLAR! However, this is Michael Jackson we’re talking about, he raised the bar so high that this tracklist was automatically going to fail at the moment of release. Not to mention it didn’t have any good videos to accompany it. YRMW (video) is a lame Smooth Criminal esque rehash with a clearly medicated Michael half assing his way through it and Chris Tucker being over the top to try and salvage it. I won’t even acknowledge Cry.

This album had not ONE iconic song on it, instead just a collection of decent songs. The vocals on almost every track were a bit too much, leaning far too heavy into the gritty rock vocals where not needed. In an album that’s mostly R&B, he should have tried to lean more into his boyish vocals and left the grit to the songs where it fits I.E. Unbreakable, Invincible, Heartbreaker and a few others. Another aspect that held this album back were recycled themes done worse. Songs like Privacy come to mind, when compared to Scream, Tabloid Junkie, WYWTOM etc, it’s just lame. Then his humanitarian songs, when compared to MITM, Earth Song, HTW, WATW etc they just don’t do it for me at all.

It will forever blow my mind that with all of the INCREDIBLE outtakes that he had at the time, he and Jerkins chose this! Michael could have had an album that DESTROYED every other album he made before it, but chose mediocrity. It just seemed around this time, between his album, his health, his appearance and so forth, his heart just wasn’t in it and I feel people could feel that. Granted I was 10 at the time and caught up in MJ fever so I was happy to get anything he put out, but in retrospect, it’s obvious he wasn’t feeling it. For crying out loud he wasn’t even performing the background harmonies on the majority of these songs which has always been something I love about Michael’s songs. His harmonies are top notch and just gorgeous. I believe wholeheartedly that his over medicating had a lot to do with his piss poor decisions around that time. Just sucks that was his last album and he never got to try and out do that one.
 
There are actually fans who call invincible their favorite album, for whatever reason, maybe the songs would have been better with more videos and a tour
 
There was not enough catchy songs , simple as that. The chorus on a lot of the tracks were not snappy enough to get you hooked.

I've always found a large chunk of Invincible very average and not enough of the MJ spark.

Invincible, the lost children, 2000 watts, Cry, Privacy, Threatened and perhaps one of the ballads are just not good enough.

This was released in September 2001 and a lot of the tracks seemed quite dated. Other artists were releasing better pop music at the time.

I hate to mention MJ's nose but at that time in his life, it wasn't looking too great , extremely thin and I found some of his singing quite nasally on some tracks.

There are some gems though on the album for sure, mostly the r&b tracks.
 
I can see why a lot of threads get made about Invincible, it is an interesting topic.

Personally I'd rather talk about the more successful periods in Michael's career, but perhaps we know so much about those era's they're not as interesting to some fans.

That's why I'm excited about John Cameron's next Musicology episode on the Bad album, it's my favourite album and era. The timeline of events and the detail of his documentaries are superb.
 
For some reason I feel really bad for MJ listening to Invicible, as if he was forced to record while he was under medication, surgery and with a broken voice.. I was listening to 'Heaven Can Wait' recently and those ad-libs were actually hurting me personally straining his voice like that.. smh
 
Victorious said:
For some reason I feel really bad for MJ listening to Invicible, as if he was forced to record while he was under medication, surgery and with a broken voice.. I was listening to 'Heaven Can Wait' recently and those ad-libs were actually hurting me personally straining his voice like that.. smh
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Where did you hear this version!?
 
Richard76 said:
I think MJ was planning to make Invincible album the first part of big collection. Like History and BOTDF albums. 12th album would have all tracks, that MJ didn't have opportunity to place in Invincible album. And in my opinion would have much more cool stuff: like MJ classic videoclips. I guess it would be released in 2011. And HT would be the promo single with full clip 🤤🤤🤤
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I disagree, Michael made a video (Rock My World) and although it was done very well it was unoriginal and he looked awful (imo), just can't see how another video would be any better in that regards. Also besides 'Rock My World' there isn't any hit material on Invincible; maybe 'Break Of Dawn' or 'Whatever Happens' would do okay-ish but there are nothing special too
 
Victorious said:
I mean the album version; his voice sounds so harsh, it's painful to listen to imo
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Oh ok! Because there is a Version where Michaels Voice is cracking and very bad straining and he is not able to sing...

MJ strained his voice during the recording sessions for this song and it actually broke. They eventually cut out most of the screaming takes.
 
The Pharrell tracks that were eventually used for Justin Timberlake's first solo album were better than a lot of what was on Invincible.

I think MJ could have done fantastic with those songs if he hadn't rejected them.

I know he wanted to move away from a certain style but a lot of Invincible was overproduced.
 
Harun said:
Oh ok! Because there is a Version where Michaels Voice is cracking and very bad straining and he is not able to sing...

MJ strained his voice during the recording sessions for this song and it actually broke. They eventually cut out most of the screaming takes.
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Oh really? I didn't know that; makes sense though!
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
The Pharrell tracks that were eventually used for Justin Timberlake's first solo album were better than a lot of what was on Invincible.

I think MJ could have done fantastic with those songs if he hadn't rejected them.

I know he wanted to move away from a certain style but a lot of Invincible was overproduced.
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Those songs worked well for JT because they resembled MJ's old work, especially for OTW. If MJ had done that it would be a rehash and nothing new. It was fresh at the time too hear younger artists be '80's disco/soulful' again

I agree that MJ needed a new direction but maybe a dance/electro/disco style would be 'fresher' like JT's 'FutureSexLoveSounds' album instead of Timbaland's mid 90's style, which already a bit 'played out' at the time
 
Victorious said:
Those songs worked well for JT because they resembled MJ's old work, especially for OTW. If MJ had done that it would be a rehash and nothing new. It was fresh at the time too hear younger artists be '80's disco/soulful' again

I agree that MJ needed a new direction but maybe a dance/electro/disco style would be 'fresher' like JT's 'FutureSexLoveSounds' album instead of Timbaland's mid 90's style, which already a bit 'played out' at the time
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I think they were just better songs tbh and sounded more current at the time than anything on Invincible.

If anything, going for a OTW era sound but make it current (2001) it would have been a hit. MJ hadn't been soulful for 20 years.

What we got on Invincible was average songs with some odd futuristic sounds that still felt like his 90s work just of a lesser quality.

Btw , FutureSex/LoveSounds is a banger of an album!!!
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
I think they were just better songs tbh and sounded more current at the time than anything on Invincible.

If anything, going for a OTW era sound but make it current (2001) it would have been a hit. MJ hadn't been soulful for 20 years.

What we got on Invincible was average songs with some odd futuristic sounds that still felt like his 90s work just of a lesser quality.

Btw , FutureSex/LoveSounds is a banger of an album!!!
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Agree.
But JT made the songs even bigger by being young and a teen idol, MJ was past that stage by then
 
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