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Which songs do you prefer the demo over the finalized version?

too bad someone recorded it with a potato.

Anyway the 1986 version comes without the chorus and has the pre chorus in falsetto, the 1987 version sounds more complete but I miss the falsett.

Either way it had hit screaming all over it
 
I like the whistling at the start of the 87 version, feels like a old western film. But the 86 version is more dynamic and the falsetto is great

I'm not sure how I feel about Streetwalker, it's a good song but I haven't heard a version of it yet that has convinced me that it should have made the album. I feel like Price Of Fame would have been a stronger contender. I know Streetwalker was the closest track to making the record, the 12th song if you like

Maybe John Cameron will touch on this in his new Musicology episode on the Bad album. They're always a great listen and really thorough
 
I find it disappointing that Michael took so long in between albums. By the time he wanted to release a follow up album the music industry had changed to a different sound. This meant that truly great songs that missed out on an album were also not in contention anymore for a follow up album.
He went from releasing an album every year from 1970 till 1982 to gaps of 5 years in between. In my opinion he should have released a follow up to thriller around 1984/85 containing superb tracks as streetwalker, got the hots, carousel, behind the mask etc. After Bad there was also a lot of fantastic material to release an album in 1989. Now all of those tracks are basically non existant, they're not available for fans were it not for YouTube. Drop it when it's hot I say!
 
He took 5 years between albums because he busted his ass on tour and performed and wore himself out. He also took his time and released quality music. Don’t get me wrong, I wish he released more but let’s be realistic. He could have released 40 albums of garbage like others do. The purple one comes to mind. Had to put the work in the man was a perfectionist. He wanted to be the best and not disappoint.
 
Smooth72 said:
He took 5 years between albums because he busted his ass on tour and performed and wore himself out. He also took his time and released quality music. Don’t get me wrong, I wish he released more but let’s be realistic. He could have released 40 albums of garbage like others do. The purple one comes to mind. Had to put the work in the man was a perfectionist. He wanted to be the best and not disappoint.
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No you completely misunderstood.He had enough material to release more albums, that is my point. I'm also not talking about a prince like output, all I pointed out was 2 to 3 more albums tops.
Besides that it would be almost impossible to release garbage albums because Michael's voice is enough to make most of his songs at the very minimum interesting.

I'm pretty sure Michael did more touring during the 70s yet he/they managed to release albums each year. It is completely forgotten now but his first world tour wasn't the bad tour but the Jackson 5 tour he did between 73 and 75. Compared to what he did artistically in the 70s the 80s were a cakewalk
 
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filmandmusic said:
No you completely misunderstood.He had enough material to release more albums, that is my point. I'm also not talking about a prince like output, all I pointed out was 2 to 3 more albums tops.
Besides that it would be almost impossible to release garbage albums because Michael's voice is enough to make most of his songs at the very minimum interesting.

I'm pretty sure Michael did more touring during the 70s yet he/they managed to release albums each year. It is completely forgotten now but his first world tour wasn't the bad tour but the Jackson 5 tour he did between 73 and 75. Compared to what he did artistically in the 70s the 80s were a cakewalk
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But the J5 songs were all written for them and they would have been releasing albums on a timetable dictated by Motown. Wouldn't that be the reason for an album per year? Same at Epic, at least to begin with. The early songs are being written by Gamble and Huff and Epic is probably deciding what the work rate is gonna be. Plus, I love J5 stuff and some of the Jacksons stuff but those songs are mostly fairly simple to my ears. The stuff Michael did in his adult solo career is way more complex. Isn't it?

I've been diving into those early J5 albums (cos I only knew the singles) and there's some nice stuff in them but there are quite a few fillers, as well. Which I don't think is the case for Michael's albums.

Do you think he should have released more albums or maybe done a double album at some point? I think a double album would have been awesome. I know there's the idea that double albums don't get the sales and Michael was unenthusiastic (or so I believe) for that reason - and Michael was all about shifting units, at least after Thriller - but I think it would have worked.
 
zinniabooklover said:
But the J5 songs were all written for them and they would have been releasing albums on a timetable dictated by Motown. Wouldn't that be the reason for an album per year? Same at Epic, at least to begin with.
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Well yes that played a huge part of releasing so much but by this time we have heard at least a dozen extra songs fully completed and recorded in the 80s that didn't end up on an album. Besides Michael always had lots of songs written for his albums, he never fully relied on his own creativity. There was at least one extra full album in the 80s possible and I'm not talking about filler material, it was top class music just like the songs that ended up on off the wall, destiny, triumph, thriller and bad.
Michael even found time to write music for other people which he didn't do in the 70s. He had several guest vocals on tracks with Minnie Riperton, Rockwell, Diana Ross, that reggae musician etc. He wrote songs for Rebbie, Latoya, Diana Ross, he recorded with Freddie.
So it is not like he didn't have enough time to release more albums. He barely toured throughout the 80s, the Victory and Triumph tours had about 50 shows only, they weren't worldwide. From 1980 till the release of the bad album he had toured only in 81 and 84.
There was not only time but also the material to release more albums.

Anyway it all doesn’t matter, i’m merely pointing out that it could have been, it's all good but I would have liked more.
 
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filmandmusic said:
Well yes that played a huge part of releasing so much but by this time we have heard at least a dozen extra songs fully completed and recorded in the 80s that didn't end up on an album. Besides Michael always had lots of songs written for his albums, he never fully relied on his own creativity. There was at least one extra full album in the 80s possible and I'm not talking about filler material, it was top class music just like the songs that ended up on off the wall, destiny, triumph, thriller and bad.
Michael even found time to write music for other people which he didn't do in the 70s. He had several guest vocals on tracks with Minnie Riperton, Rockwell, Diana Ross, that reggae musician etc. He wrote songs for Rebbie, Latoya, Diana Ross, he recorded with Freddie.
So it is not like he didn't have enough time to release more albums. He barely toured throughout the 80s, the Victory and Triumph tours had about 50 shows only, they weren't worldwide. From 1980 till the release of the bad album he had toured only in 81 and 84.
There was not only time but also the material to release more albums.

Anyway it all doesn’t matter, i’m merely pointing out that it could have been, it's all good but I would have liked more.
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These are all good points. And I wasn't having a go at you so hope you didn't think that. I was just thinking out loud. I think we are making more or less the same point. You would have liked more albums, I would have liked one - or preferably two - double albums. A world where Abortion Papers doesn't make the cut is a world I don't really understand, lol. I mean, the story about Frank dancing to APOM is cute but, what? A person with a pulse could listen to Abortion Papers and NOT want to dance? Weird.

Maybe it's the fact that rock music is my thing. Double albums, no big deal. In Michael's part of the music industry, there was always much less enthusiasm for them. But I think it could have worked. Although, I'm not exactly a music industry mogul so what do I know? :ROFLMAO:

I agree that he had enough great songs for more albums. Not sure I agree he had time to release more (single) albums. Because then he would have felt obliged to tour each album, presumably. And do more videos. Plus he was turning himself into a brand with Pepsi and LA Gear so lots of business activity right there. I think the '80's was pretty full on for him, even apart from the Pepsi debacle and the recovery from that. He must have been spending a lot more time just on the dancing alone and dancers rehearse stuff to the point of exhaustion. That takes time. I remember an interview with one of the dancers off Smooth Criminal saying that they rehearsed that routine for 3 months. Unfortunately, Darcey Bussell didn't ask if those rehearsals ran concurrently with the filming. I would love to know.

The only thing in your comment that was new to me was this thing about a reggae musician. Michael did backing vocals on a reggae song? Really? Wow. Interesting. I didn't know Michael had any connection with that genre. Sugar Minott did the cover version of Good Thing Going but I thought The Corporation wrote that one. And Musical Youth did a cover of She's Trouble but I'd call that a pop song, not reggae. And did Michael write that one, anyway? I thought he didn't.

Backing vocals on a reggae song? I'm really intrigued. Especially as I adore Michael as a backing vocalist. The backing vocals he does on his own songs is up there, imo, with the greats from Tamla. Sublime? Stupendous? I don't have the words.

But you're right. None of this actually matters. Just the frustration of brilliant, brilliant songs not having the official release that they deserve. "Drop it when it's hot." I definitely agree with that.

Gonna go and listen to Abortion Papers. I haven't listened to it for months. That's not good enough!
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:
I like the whistling at the start of the 87 version, feels like a old western film. But the 86 version is more dynamic and the falsetto is great

I'm not sure how I feel about Streetwalker, it's a good song but I haven't heard a version of it yet that has convinced me that it should have made the album. I feel like Price Of Fame would have been a stronger contender. I know Streetwalker was the closest track to making the record, the 12th song if you like

Maybe John Cameron will touch on this in his new Musicology episode on the Bad album. They're always a great listen and really thorough
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I agree 100%. I've heard it's another version out there different from what we got on tuc
 
Here is an interesting and rather supernatural explanation by Michael Jackson himself about the fact that he used to release a new album every 5 years.

The singer believed a lot in the power of mystery and how it manages to keep people interested.

So, as he stated, the number 5 triggers the greatest mystery, and in particular the fifth door:

"...I do love the power of mystery, I really do. I think it's very powerful ... There's six doors, you can open any of these doors. But the fifth door, don't open it. Don't open the fifth door, no matter what ... I only do an album every five years. Other artists do an album every year and my albums outlast and outsell all the other artists. And people wait for it. There's like, you know, a whole pulse going on about this album..." (Michael Jackson, The Michael Jackson Tapes)

Michael Jackson made that revelation to his friend and spiritual advisor Rabbi Shmuley Boteach in the early '00s, when he was working on his 'Invincible' album.
 
filmandmusic said:
@zinniabooklover
There us always that story that Michael wanted bad to be a triple album but I don’t know if that is true.

Here it is the reggae song, he sings the chorus.

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Nooooooooooooo!!!! Noooooooo!! Just no!! Don't do that to me!

A triple album? No, I hadn't heard that story. OMG, that would have been awesome. All my birthdays at once. I would have loved that.

I need to go and recover.

I'd have been very happy for Dangerous to be a double album but it's really Bad that I wanted to go down that route. I'm going to be having triple-album fantasies off-the-chart now.

Thanks so much for the clip of the song. I didn't rate the song at all but Michael's vocals are superb. Only prob, just as I'm sinking into his voice it's all over, quite a short little chorus there. But he sounds amazing. As always. Lovely piece of work from lovely, lovely Michael. He makes that song.

Oh, god, a triple album. I can even picture the artwork. I need to lie down.
 
mj_frenzy said:
Here is an interesting and rather supernatural explanation by Michael Jackson himself about the fact that he used to release a new album every 5 years.

The singer believed a lot in the power of mystery and how it manages to keep people interested.

So, as he stated, the number 5 triggers the greatest mystery, and in particular the fifth door:

"...I do love the power of mystery, I really do. I think it's very powerful ... There's six doors, you can open any of these doors. But the fifth door, don't open it. Don't open the fifth door, no matter what ... I only do an album every five years. Other artists do an album every year and my albums outlast and outsell all the other artists. And people wait for it. There's like, you know, a whole pulse going on about this album..." (Michael Jackson, The Michael Jackson Tapes)

Michael Jackson made that revelation to his friend and spiritual advisor Rabbi Shmuley Boteach in the early '00s, when he was working on his 'Invincible' album.
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Yeah, I love that quote. It's one of my faves. I'm flaky enough that I can embrace it with no reservations. I especially love that bit, ' ... a whole pulse going on about this album ... ' Yep, that's our boy.

I've never wanted to delve into those Boteach tapes. Isn't there something iffy about him? Can't remember, I just know I feel a bit wary of him. But I do love this quote; thank you for reminding me. ☺️
 
zinniabooklover said:
Yeah, I love that quote. It's one of my faves. I'm flaky enough that I can embrace it with no reservations. I especially love that bit, ' ... a whole pulse going on about this album ... ' Yep, that's our boy.

I've never wanted to delve into those Boteach tapes. Isn't there something iffy about him? Can't remember, I just know I feel a bit wary of him. But I do love this quote; thank you for reminding me. ☺️
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Rabbi Shmuley Boteach appeared to be iffy because he was accused of taking people's donations meant for the 'Heal The Kids' charitable foundation and sending these donations to his own L'Chaim Society organization.

Also, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach wanted to release that book (with the private, taped conversations) around 2002, but the singer apparently did not give his consent to that release, which seems to be also one of the reasons for their fall-out in 2002.

So, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach acted in a rather unethical way by releasing this book right after Michael Jackson's death.

Some fans also did not like the fact that he used to stick with the singer a lot publicly (in the early '00s and until their fall-out) which looked like a way for him to gain more publicity and glamour (i.e., to become more famous because of his association with Michael Jackson).

Of course, none of the above things reduce the value of these private, taped conversations in which Michael Jackson bares his soul.
 
mj_frenzy said:
Rabbi Shmuley Boteach appeared to be iffy because he was accused of taking people's donations meant for the 'Heal The Kids' charitable foundation and sending these donations to his own L'Chaim Society organization.

Also, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach wanted to release that book (with the private, taped conversations) around 2002, but the singer apparently did not give his consent to that release, which seems to be also one of the reasons for their fall-out in 2002.

So, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach acted in a rather unethical way by releasing this book right after Michael Jackson's death.

Some fans also did not like the fact that he used to stick with the singer a lot publicly (in the early '00s and until their fall-out) which looked like a way for him to gain more publicity and glamour (i.e., to become more famous because of his association with Michael Jackson).

Of course, none of the above things reduce the value of these private, taped conversations in which Michael Jackson bares his soul.
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Yes, thank you. I'd forgotten all of this. After your last post I did decide to revisit the little YT clip - well, there's probably loads but the one I'd seen before is about 20 mins. So I listened to that again and it was hard, just like last time. But, strangely, I did feel sort of OK about it. As in, 'if Michael wants to talk about this stuff the least I can do is listen to a little bit of it.'

Yeah, Boteach definitely acted unethically but, as you say, it doesn't detract from the content of the tapes and Michael deciding to open up a bit more about certain parts of his story. I don't feel the need to poke into every last corner of Michael's brain or his life or emotions. But if he's putting stuff out there, that's different.

I do remember last time I didn't listen properly cos I was so upset by it. So I didn't pick up on him saying he's dreading getting older. I can understand why he'd say that but it was still very hard to hear.

Will I listen again? That's a moot point.

But thank you for the info.
 
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zinniabooklover said:
In The Closet

Also, this doesn't really qualify as it's not a demo but I love it anyway so am gonna fling it in. That long studio version of WATW. It seems to be a working session with Michael to allow the studio techs to do various techie things. But I really love it cos there are some live vocals towards the end of the session plus, even better, there's a little bit of acapella about a third of the way in. It's really short, just one line, IIRC, but so fabulous. Anytime I can hear Michael doing acapella, I'm in. I wish there was more acapella stuff. The songs are amazing, they really are, and I love them but I really just want his voice. (The all-star WATW doesn't do anything for me).
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If my memory is correct, the different mix version was leaked before
 
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