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Why does he sound so weird here?

PurpleThriller

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If I'm not mistaken,Kansas was the first stop of the entire 88/89 leg of the tour. So this is either the first ever or second ever show of the entire second leg of the tour.
So his voice should be completely fresh at the start of the tour/leg,just like it was during the Tokyo 87 shows . Instead,he sounds rather hoarse and weak(especially during the ,,10 years ago todayyy,, line,that sounded horrible and reminded me of History Tour vocals i swear)
So what could be the explanation?He literally had a months long break,not to mention this is no way to sound on the opening night/second ever night,during just the second song of the concert( in Kansas 84 and Tokyo 87 he sounded ready and amazing.)February 88 is also just a few months away from November 87(and during November 87 he sounded great too). Did his voice just start to deteriorate as soon as 1988 arrived(and eventually it got ruined for good by 97)?
 
PurpleThriller said:
If I'm not mistaken,Kansas was the first stop of the entire 88/89 leg of the tour. So this is either the first ever or second ever show of the entire second leg of the tour.
So his voice should be completely fresh at the start of the tour/leg,just like it was during the Tokyo 87 shows . Instead,he sounds rather hoarse and weak(especially during the ,,10 years ago todayyy,, line,that sounded horrible and reminded me of History Tour vocals i swear)
So what could be the explanation?He literally had a months long break,not to mention this is no way to sound on the opening night/second ever night,during just the second song of the concert( in Kansas 84 and Tokyo 87 he sounded ready and amazing.)February 88 is also just a few months away from November 87(and during November 87 he sounded great too). Did his voice just start to deteriorate as soon as 1988 arrived(and eventually it got ruined for good by 97)?
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So the rehearsal korgnex shared is supposedly from the 18th I believe and what I believe is that he did two full dress rehearsals during that day, one with a full audience and another one with just the band, and he was fully singing and not resting his voice. The opening night in kansas was just five days later. I think it's safe to say that MJ did not take any precautions when it came to saving his voice. I believe that's why he sounded somewhat hoarse on that night. My two cents

Btw, You can even hear some hoarsness on the australia shows, They do not sound as clear and crisp as the tokyo shows
 
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Would assume it’s mainly due to him singing too much during the Pensacola rehearsals (if he would’ve saved his voice he probably would’ve sounded as good as the Japanese shows from the first leg). Another factor is the poor quality of this old audio which makes him sound worse than he actually did. Still think he sounded better here and in New York than the rest of the second leg (shame he got sick tho).
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
So the rehearsal korgnex shared is supposedly from the 18th I believe and what I believe is that he did two full dress rehearsals during that day, one with a full audience and another one with just the band, and he was fully singing and not resting his voice. The opening night in kansas was just five days later. I think it's safe to say that MJ did not take any precautions when it came to saving his voice. I believe that's why he sounded somewhat hoarse on that night. My two cents
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Oh,oki . Thanks for the info!
I really don't understand why he chose to sing like that during a rehearseal. Where's the logic in that Mike lol?
 
PurpleThriller said:
I kinda agree,but Gothenburg 88 has some killer vocals too in my opinion
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There isn’t enough pro audio for me to compare Gothenburg to the other shows tbh but the June shows definitely had some of the best vocals from the 2nd leg.
 
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PurpleThriller said:
True. But they still sound better than several second leg shows ,in my opinion
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Absolutely! In terms of gritty vocals and the vocal approach MJ would adopt live from 1988 onwards, the Australia shows were the perfect combination of smooth, crisp vocals and a gritty delivery. Imo after 1987 he leaned too much towards the gritty delivery sacrificing that smoothness.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
Absolutely! In terms of gritty vocals and the vocal approach MJ would adopt live from 1988 onwards, the Australia shows were the perfect combination of smooth, crisp vocals and a gritty delivery. Imo after 1987 he leaned too much towards the gritty delivery sacrificing that smoothness.
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yeah,as much as i like that kind of gritty delivery,that was a very weird choice for live performances
 
PurpleThriller said:
So this is either the first ever or second ever show of the entire second leg of the tour.
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This one is the first, 23/02. The three full songs with the VH1/MTV logo are the second, 24/02.

PurpleThriller said:
So what could be the explanation?
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Besides what the guys mentioned above about the excess during rehearsals, it was also around the time he first developed laryngitis. His voice started detereorating gradually and the first signs appeared (cancelled shows in St Louis and Indianapolis). Further proof can be found with some recently found footage of the Atlanta show in mid-April where he slightly cracks during APOM.
So, while Michael was indeed singing 90% of the set live, that was the condition of his vocals for the most part of the leg. Best US concerts are MSG and Minneapolis imo.
Overall, June and August shows are the most consistent. While the vocals are not superb, they're not as raspy and hoarse and he even tries to sing full lines rather than doing "scat vocals" in certain songs such as Dirty Diana (listen to the Madrid 07/08 recording so you have an idea of what I mean).
 
okay this is my two cent as a vocal student, mikes aggressive technique isnt something sustainable and you cant alway "hit the note" the exact same way with it it will always have noticeable variation unlike the classical technique that prioritize vocal resonance above all, you can do it for one song but by the second song the chords will lose stamina so he keeps giving more aggression to make them react the way they did on the first song and it snowballs for 2 hours untill he only has head voice stamina(ho ho he hes are head voice) cause thats the only part of his voice he didn't overwork and over compressed, also take into consideration that the bad era is the first era where mike really leaned into this aggressive vocal style and has yet to master how much of that vocal compression he really can get away with and the fact that he was still trying to sing the whole setlist live.

and a side note of an unpopular opinion on mikes voice - even if he did have throat issues by the time history tour came if he stuck to the technique he showcased in his warmup video thats on youtube and ditched the aggression and vocal distortion he still could carry the entire setlist live.
i think by the time this is it started he dialed back on the aggression and vocal effects too bad it was too late
 
rolerprod said:
okay this is my two cent as a vocal student, mikes aggressive technique isnt something sustainable and you cant alway "hit the note" the exact same way with it it will always have noticeable variation unlike the classical technique that prioritize vocal resonance above all, you can do it for one song but by the second song the chords will lose stamina so he keeps giving more aggression to make them react the way they did on the first song and it snowballs for 2 hours, also take into consideration that the bad era is the first era where mike really leaned into this aggressive vocal style and has yet to master how much of that vocal compression he really can get away with and the fact that he was still trying to sing the whole setlist live.

and a side note of an unpopular opinion on mikes voice - even if he did have throat issues by the time history tour came if he stuck to the technique he showcased in his warmup video thats on youtube and ditched the aggression and vocal distortion he still could carry the entire setlist live.
i think by the time this is it started he dialed back on the aggression and vocal effects too bad it was too late
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My man, I agree a 1000% with this post! You put it perfectly. This is absolutely what I believe as well. Thank you for writing this

Sidenote: It's really noticable on Invincible how much that style affected his voice. Whenever he tried to do that aggressive approach with vocal distortion on the album it sounded so forced and unnatural.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
My man, I agree a 1000% with this post! You put it perfectly. This is absolutely what I believe as well. Thank you for writing this

Sidenote: It's really noticable on Invincible how much that style affected his voice. Whenever he tried to do that aggressive approach with vocal distortion on the album it sounded so forced and unnatural.
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you know the sad thing about that is that invincible is a more RNB record than anything and grittiness doesn't fit that genre, like he didnt have to get gritty on Heaven can wait or Rock my world and Whatever happens for example i always thought he could have just cleanly belted it the way he approached Dont walk away but maybe he just could belt cleanly on certain notes due to wear and tear damage at that point? idk i wish there were more of his warmup tapes on yt from different eras it would be such a fascinating case study.
 
rolerprod said:
you know the sad thing about that is that invincible is a more RNB record than anything and grittiness doesn't fit that genre, like he didnt have to get gritty on Heaven can wait or Rock my world and Whatever happens for example i always thought he could have just cleanly belted it the way he approached Dont walk away but maybe he just could belt cleanly on certain notes due to wear and tear damage at that point? idk i wish there were more of his warmup tapes on yt from different eras it would be such a fascinating case study.
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Yeah I know exactly what you mean. It was completely unecessary on Whatever Happens but I think that it was a stylistic choice on his part. Another great example is One More Chance. The only thing holding that song back from being one of my favorites is his vocal delivery. It just became too much imo.
Too bad that the only thing available from the Invincible period is that little portion from She Was Loving me. I would to hear his vocal warm ups during the Off The Wall - Thriller, periods.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
Yeah I know exactly what you mean. It was completely unecessary on Whatever Happens but I think that it was a stylistic choice on his part. Another great example is One More Chance. The only thing holding that song back from being one of my favorites is his vocal delivery. It just became too much imo.
Too bad that the only thing available from the Invincible period is that little portion from She Was Loving me. I would to hear his vocal warm ups during the Off The Wall - Thriller, periods.
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didnt know She was loving me came from invincible thats interesting
 
rolerprod said:
didnt know She was loving me came from invincible thats interesting
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Yeah it's quite interesting. Corey Roney (The Producer) went into detail about this in one interview. You know what, I really want to hear what belting style MJ used in the studio in his later years (2005-2009)
 
I've always found it interesting that the outtakes from Invincible don't seem to feature the same strained, unnatural sounding screams as the tracks that made it onto the album.
 
PurpleThriller said:
As much as i love them, they are not his ''signature ones'' in my opinion,if that makes sense lol
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It makes sense. There are basically 4 types of MJ fans:

- the Motown years fans - Michael singing crystal clear with total absence of his later trademark vocal “tics”.
- the disco/funk era fans 1977 - 1984. Still mostly clear vocals but with an adult voice, first emergence of trademark style singing - this era is for the casual fans and critics lol
- the raspy/angry/rock/fuck pronunciation era which lasted till his death. Probably most hardcore fans come into play in this section.
- the final category, those fans that absorb all the era’s equally. I think these are quite rare, I count myself as one but my preference clearly goes towards the first 2 categories.

One might argue there is a 5th section of fans that don’t care for vocals and are all in for the dancing.
 
filmandmusic said:
It makes sense. There are basically 4 types of MJ fans:

- the Motown years fans - Michael singing crystal clear with total absence of his later trademark vocal “tics”.
- the disco/funk era fans 1977 - 1984. Still mostly clear vocals but with an adult voice, first emergence of trademark style singing - this era is for the casual fans and critics lol
- the raspy/angry/rock/fuck pronunciation era which lasted till his death. Probably most hardcore fans come into play in this section.
- the final category, those fans that absorb all the era’s equally. I think these are quite rare, I count myself as one but my preference clearly goes towards the first 2 categories.

One might argue there is a 5th section of fans that don’t care for vocals and are all in for the dancing.
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Interesting breakdown. I would say most causal fans falls into category 3. I myself am in category 4. I adore all the different styles. I have to admit to I like the songs more in category 3 but I prefer the voice in category 2.
 
filmandmusic said:
It makes sense. There are basically 4 types of MJ fans:

- the Motown years fans - Michael singing crystal clear with total absence of his later trademark vocal “tics”.
- the disco/funk era fans 1977 - 1984. Still mostly clear vocals but with an adult voice, first emergence of trademark style singing - this era is for the casual fans and critics lol
- the raspy/angry/rock/fuck pronunciation era which lasted till his death. Probably most hardcore fans come into play in this section.
- the final category, those fans that absorb all the era’s equally. I think these are quite rare, I count myself as one but my preference clearly goes towards the first 2 categories.

One might argue there is a 5th section of fans that don’t care for vocals and are all in for the dancing.
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As I get older, I prefer the era in category 2 more and more.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
I've always found it interesting that the outtakes from Invincible don't seem to feature the same strained, unnatural sounding screams as the tracks that made it onto the album.
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Weren't the tracks with the most strained vocals (e.g. Heaven Can Wait) all from the later sessions, whereas the outtakes we know of were worked on at an earlier stage? Seems like he just was not in great vocal shape during that particular period.
 
filmandmusic said:
It makes sense. There are basically 4 types of MJ fans:

- the Motown years fans - Michael singing crystal clear with total absence of his later trademark vocal “tics”.
- the disco/funk era fans 1977 - 1984. Still mostly clear vocals but with an adult voice, first emergence of trademark style singing - this era is for the casual fans and critics lol
- the raspy/angry/rock/fuck pronunciation era which lasted till his death. Probably most hardcore fans come into play in this section.
- the final category, those fans that absorb all the era’s equally. I think these are quite rare, I count myself as one but my preference clearly goes towards the first 2 categories.

One might argue there is a 5th section of fans that don’t care for vocals and are all in for the dancing.
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Though it's not associated with a particular type of fan, don't forget about the 'in between' kid and adult voice-period. One Day In Your Life is one of my favorite MJ vocals, exactly because he sounds a bit frail - it totally fits the song.
 
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