Would you say the HIStory album is a masterpiece of artistry (even by MJ’s standards) or an attempt to be “trendy”?

StarlightXX

Proud Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2023
Messages
112
Points
43
Location
Melbourne, Australia
I love the HIStory album but it seems people (even some fans) consider it a hit-or-miss. Even if HIStory didn’t sell as highly as Thriller or Bad, one has to admit the artistry of HIStory is beautiful. Stranger Is Moscow is a beautiful song, so is Childhood and Smile. Yes, I know HIStory has the distinctive 90s sound (evident in Madonna, Janet Jackson, Boyz II Men) but I still find it a timeless album. It’s almost like a concept album, where Michael addresses his victimhood by the media and loneliness.
 
Excluding maybe “You Are Not Alone” and “This Time Around,” I can’t think of a single song on HIStory that you could call trend-chasing. It’s as singular and unique as anything MJ has ever done. And I will argue it is tied as his best album.
 
Yeah, TTA Was definitely aiming for the TLC sound.

That sound is pretty classic though, so the song has actually risen in my estimate.
 
I don't think it was trying to be trendy I think it caught onto a mood of uncertainty and angst that was in the popular culture of the time. Not only was HIStory's most personal album it was also probably its most socially conscious. I remember when it dropped and there was a lot of "end of the world" type documentaries coming out and people wondering what the new millenium would mean for the planet, be it war, famine, plague or some sort of technological armaggeddon. I think HIStory perfectly capured that moment in time.

Was it a masterpiece? I think for something to be a masterpiece it needs to be near-enough flawless and HIStory isn't flawless. It's certainly a very good album and a lot of it holds up today. But there are a couple too many fillers for it to be a masterpiece. I give the album a 7/10 with its best songs being among the best he ever made.
 
I don't know about trying to be trendy. The only real problem with the album is that it gets a bit thematically monotonous. Yeah, ok Micheal, you don't like the press, we get it, no need to talk about it in every song.
 
I have always seen Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad as attempts, and actually successes to create classic albums that are mostly a queue of highly polished pop songs... (Yet each time improving and innovating over the previous one, and targetting very high standards for their era.)

And I have always seen Dangerous and HIStory the albums MJ got to put the most of his personal creativity and expression into. I think they each create some a kind of universe*, or at least have their own consistant atmosphere. HIStory being darker and less colourful than Dangerous. (It's weird that a song recorded in the 80s fits in the middle of there, it's not my favourite but it doesn't break the atmosphere.)
So, I may see Dangerous and HIStory as his most important works as a musical artists.

(* Though, maybe, considering the videos in additions to the the albums, Bad also kind of "create of universe" of it own...)
 
Excluding maybe “You Are Not Alone” and “This Time Around,” I can’t think of a single song on HIStory that you could call trend-chasing. It’s as singular and unique as anything MJ has ever done. And I will argue it is tied as his best album.
How is You are Not Alone chasing a trend?

This Time Around… could just as well be Dallas Austin’s chasing at work, couldn’t it? In any case, I don’t feel it’s that different from some Dangerous tracks.
 
I don't think it was trying to be trendy I think it caught onto a mood of uncertainty and angst that was in the popular culture of the time. Not only was HIStory's most personal album it was also probably its most socially conscious. I remember when it dropped and there was a lot of "end of the world" type documentaries coming out and people wondering what the new millenium would mean for the planet, be it war, famine, plague or some sort of technological armaggeddon. I think HIStory perfectly capured that moment in time.

Was it a masterpiece? I think for something to be a masterpiece it needs to be near-enough flawless and HIStory isn't flawless. It's certainly a very good album and a lot of it holds up today. But there are a couple too many fillers for it to be a masterpiece. I give the album a 7/10 with its best songs being among the best he ever made.
There are no fillers on HIStory. I wish that word would vanish from existence.

The millenium anxiety started later, around 1998 or so. At least here in Sweden.
 
I don't know about trying to be trendy. The only real problem with the album is that it gets a bit thematically monotonous. Yeah, ok Micheal, you don't like the press, we get it, no need to talk about it in every song.
He really doesn’t.

#1+11, yes.
#2+3+5, 8–10, 12–15, no.
#4+6+7: maybe, in a way.

So that makes it 13,3 % directly about the media, 33,3 % if you include the songs that really aren’t. Because truthfully, 86,6 % of the album isn’t about the press.
 
I don't know about trying to be trendy. The only real problem with the album is that it gets a bit thematically monotonous. Yeah, ok Micheal, you don't like the press, we get it, no need to talk about it in every song.
The theme of the record is "I don't like the press" so yeah.
 
To do me it did the New Jack Swing style way better than on Dangerous and it's his most personal and cathartic album, hence why it's my favourite.
 
One would say that the 'HIStory' album (disc 2) is not a concept album, and thus not thematically monotonous, considering that it touches upon themes of:

- war
- poverty
- racism
- greed
- hope
- murder
- suicide
- loneliness
- media bias
- isolation
- despair
- fame
- stardom
- own childhood
- self-importance
- white supremacy
- social injustice
- police brutality
- environmental awareness

Besides, Michael Jackson did not use to release concept, studio albums in his career.
 
May be HIStory wasn't Michael's biggest commercial success. But some songs from the album have become iconic over time. They Don't Care About Us is one of Michael's best known songs, and has proven to be relevant decades later. Earth Song is by many considered his magnum opus. The longevity of these songs show the album isn't just an attempt to be 'trendy' in the nineties.
 
The only song that doesn’t really fit in my opinion is Come Together. But I’d absolutely call it his magnum opus.
 
HIStory used to be my favourite, but I don't really think I have a favourite MJ album any more. I listen to songs off of all them whenever I feel like listening to those particular songs.

I think it's probably his most personal album, along with BOTDF tracks (probably more so). Which were of course started for that album
 
I think it's probably his most personal album, along with BOTDF tracks (probably more so).
Yeah, and in a way that's a weakness of the album. It means the songs are a lot less relatable.

Like, I'm not inside Michael's head, so how am I supposed to understand about media harassment? I have no experience of being strip-searched, or losing my childhood, or needing a security team, so I find that stuff really hard to care about.

That's probably a reason very few songs on HIStory get any meaningful cover versions. They're just too personal to MJ. I can play DS on guitar, but I'd never play it outside my house...
 
Yeah, and in a way that's a weakness of the album. It means the songs are a lot less relatable.

Like, I'm not inside Michael's head, so how am I supposed to understand about media harassment? I have no experience of being strip-searched, or losing my childhood, or needing a security team, so I find that stuff really hard to care about.

That's probably a reason very few songs on HIStory get any meaningful cover versions. They're just too personal to MJ. I can play DS on guitar, but I'd never play it outside my house...
This paragraph and the last statement is crazy to me, but each to their own I suppose.
 
Gone Too Soon is literally about death of a loved one. It's universally relatable.

It's probably the least talked about MJ song period. Relatability has nothing to do with the artistry of the record and is not a weakness.
 
Like, I'm not inside Michael's head, so how am I supposed to understand about media harassment?

Empathy?

(And some people can relate to various aspects of Michael's life, to various extents... even without necessarily being famous super stars...)

Artists have made careers writing personal songs, I think songs are usually better if they reach a sweet spot between personal (so that they are more than just rhymes) and universal (so that they can be understood). It was actually great to hear a huge star like MJ having "some personal things to say"...

(That said I think he went somewhat overboard with the lyrics in D.S. ... or maybe it was a way he wanted to tell everyone what was going on ... but it's kind of a edgy way ...)


Gone Too Soon is literally about death of a loved one. It's universally relatable.

Michael recorded it as tribute to Ryan White, but initially Gone To Soon was written in 1983 at latest as tribute to "many artists" who died young... With that in mind, some of the lyrics aren't that universal. But it may still be easily understood in a universal way...
Why are we talking about GTS in the HIStory thread again? Oh, because of the universal vs personal thing?
 
Last edited:
Empathy?

(And some people can relate to various aspects of Michael's life, to various extents... even without necessarily being famous super stars...)

Artists have made careers writing personal songs, I think songs are usually better if they reach a sweet spot between personal (so that they are more than just rhymes) and universal (so that they can be understood). It was actually great to hear a huge star like MJ having "some personal things to say"...

(That said I think he went somewhat overboard with the lyrics in D.S. ... or maybe it was a way he wanted to tell everyone what was going on ... but it's kind of a edgy way ...)




Michael recorded it as tribute to Ryan White, but initially Gone To Soon was written in 1983 at latest as tribute to "many artists" who died young... With that in mind, some of the lyrics aren't that universal. But it may still be easily understood in a universal way...
Why are we talking about GTS in the HIStory thread again? Oh, because of the universal vs personal thing?
What I took from that users statement, and let me use TDCAU as an example, is that because the person hasn’t experienced racial injustice, police brutality and marginalization he doesn’t care about it. That line of thinking is crazy to me.

I suppose the person falls into the “shut up and sing Rock with you kind of songs” camp that I’ve seen some fans champion.
 
This paragraph and the last statement is crazy to me, but each to their own I suppose.
Are you saying you know what it's like to have photographers at your door? Seriously? You're saying you perfectly understand everything that's going through his head at that moment?

Gone Too Soon is literally about death of a loved one. It's universally relatable.

It's probably the least talked about MJ song period. Relatability has nothing to do with the artistry of the record and is not a weakness.
Bit surprised this song comes up out of the blue. And yeah, it's a song I love (literally the only reason I bought Babyface Unplugged).

But yeah, I'm not saying every sing has to be universally relatable (which is something that can be a weakness in itself - see Bon Jovi). Of course it's good to have some personal songs, but in some aspects of MJs life, things can go a bit too far. Especially if it's more than just one or two songs.

And again, I'm not saying it makes it a bad song, or that I don't like those songs. I'm just trying to have a mature, intelligent conversation about the pros and cons of each song. Every song/album has pros and cons - don't jump on me and assume it's hatred.
Empathy?

(And some people can relate to various aspects of Michael's life, to various extents... even without necessarily being famous super stars...)
That's what I mean. Sure, I can empathize about getting strip-searched - it must be terrible. But do I really understand it? No, of course not. I never could. And for that reason, it's not a song I could sing with conviction. It just wouldn't be right for me to stand on a stage and sing many of the songs from HIStory. I'd be faking it. And when other people do it you can tell they're phoning it in.

Artists have made careers writing personal songs, I think songs are usually better if they reach a sweet spot between personal (so that they are more than just rhymes) and universal (so that they can be understood).
Agreed. But bear in mind, for most people, including most singers, their range of experiences is pretty much the same as everybody else. It's only a tiny minority who live on their own ranch, achieved the things MJ did, owned the things MJ did, and got accused of the things MJ did.

Like, here's another example. I don't take drugs, and for that reason I can't relate to Mr Tambourine Man (Bob Dylan) or Mr Brownstone (GNR). That's not to say those aren't good songs, and it's not to say I don't like them. It's just that they don't speak to me or for me on a personal level.

It was actually great to hear a huge star like MJ having "some personal things to say"...
Agreed. Having personal things to say is what I want from the artists I listen to.

What I took from that users statement, and let me use TDCAU as an example, is that because the person hasn’t experienced racial injustice, police brutality and marginalization he doesn’t care about it. That line of thinking is crazy to me.
Pretty much. I'm not even going to pretend to understand these complex racial issues.

If I was in a band, I think it would be an insult to MJ if I were to try to play those songs. Those are MJ songs - nobody else can pull them off and be honest about it.

I suppose the person falls into the “shut up and sing Rock with you kind of songs” camp that I’ve seen some fans champion.
Don't get me wrong, I like an album to have different themes (I got a Mariah Carey album once and was disappointed that it was just 12 generic love songs).
 
Back
Top