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Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary - Estate Announcement Page 66

krikzil;4127791 said:
And that quote is from Stringer, Epic Chairman (a division of Sony) not an Executor.

And where did they "blame" MJ anyway? Saying he wasn't organized can be a simple statement of fact; not an indictment.
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Thanks-I didn't know who Stringer was-assumed he worked for Sony, but not sure.

No, they did not BLAME Michael-in the statement it was just "as you know, he didn't film, etc" It was what I call an explanation, not blame, for no extra material. But the word "blame" has been ongoing since the Estate's letter was printed here.

We would like to re-interate that the album included in the package is a re-issue of the original album – there is no additional music or remixes on the CD or any “bonus” material with the documentary. We are sure some will be disappointed that there is not extra material, but as everyone knows, this album was early in Michael’s career. He did not write or record the number of songs for this album as he did for later releases nor did he do any filming using his own camera crews of the making of his short films or other events. Without a wealth of material in the archives, the Estate and Sony decided to take a different approach with this release – strip it down and keep it simple and allow everyone to celebrate the album that started it all with a fun, specially designed, collectible package that holds both the album as originally released along with this special documentary and gives fans a chance to get creative with Michael’s original concept for the album artwork. (You’ll see when you get it!)
 
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Barbee0715, these are two distinct issues that you have blurred.

One issue is why the Estate chose to make Michael blameworthy for their lazy effort in their statement. If enough fans question this issue online, the Estate will issue another statement …defending themselves.

Another issue is Triumph not being release within this lazily made package yet, using Triumph footage to promote Lee’s documentary. If you prefer to believe others are blameworthy for the concert not being released but, using Michael's image to promote Lee's documentary, tis your choice. Past actions have proven that belief to be untrue.

Ivy, you have never minced words with me in the past and you are not now. You are simply continuing your failed argument.
 
Tygger;4127797 said:
Barbee0715, these are two distinct issues that you have blurred.

One issue is why the Estate chose to make Michael blameworthy for their lazy effort in their statement. If enough fans question this issue online, the Estate will issue another statement …defending themselves.

Another issue is Triumph not being release within this lazily made package yet, using Triumph footage to promote Lee’s documentary. If you prefer to believe others are blameworthy for the concert not being released but, using Michael's image to promote Lee's documentary, tis your choice. Past actions have proven that belief to be untrue.
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Well, they are two different issues, but I was only addressing the "blame one" at the time-that came from the letter the Estate sent out, and it's contrary to what was said before-so it is possible that it is Sony that decided to go the cost effective route and strip this down-I can't see the Estate blaming Sony-it's the hand that feeds them right now.

And just maybe they are showing us clips from the Triumph Tour because we already know from the other preview that they are including bits and pieces of the Sylvia Chase interview-and those clips are in THAT interview too.
 
barbee0715;4127796 said:
Thanks-I didn't know who Stringer was-assumed he worked for Sony, but not sure.

No, they did not BLAME Michael-in the statement it was just "as you know, he didn't film, etc" It was what I call an explanation, not blame, for no extra material. But the word "blame" has been ongoing since the Estate's letter was printed here.

We would like to re-interate that the album included in the package is a re-issue of the original album – there is no additional music or remixes on the CD or any “bonus” material with the documentary. We are sure some will be disappointed that there is not extra material, but as everyone knows, this album was early in Michael’s career. He did not write or record the number of songs for this album as he did for later releases nor did he do any filming using his own camera crews of the making of his short films or other events. Without a wealth of material in the archives, the Estate and Sony decided to take a different approach with this release – strip it down and keep it simple and allow everyone to celebrate the album that started it all with a fun, specially designed, collectible package that holds both the album as originally released along with this special documentary and gives fans a chance to get creative with Michael’s original concept for the album artwork. (You’ll see when you get it!)
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Yip, an explanation not blame. But some will twist anything the Estate says for their own agenda.
 
Barbee0715, of course the Estate will not blame their business partner.

Michael was made blameworthy in the statement. If you prefer to use the word explanation to express how Michael did not perform certain actions in 1970’s and this is the only reason given why his Estate and Sony has offered the lazy package we have pending in 2016, so be it.

The result is the same.

barbee0715;4127799 said:
I can't see the Estate blaming Sony-it's the hand that feeds them right now.
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It seems you realize the Estate will not find Sony blameworthy which means someone else is blameworthy.
 
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Why do so many here feel so entitled to everything MJ has ever done in the entirety of his life?

Can't nobody be grateful for what we already have (been given)?
 
Of course, yes, Michael didn't document every second of his life at that point. He wasn't THAT rich during that era, so of course we're not going to have hordes of studio footage (if any at all) and a whole bunch of unreleased material.

Be that as it may, I wouldn't even mind if there were new remixes or acpaellas/instrumentals.

Just think of this release as the documentary with the album as a bonus, rather than the other way around.
 
I can only go by decades of experience, and combining that with my common sense. In doing so, I am almost certain that a good few of the Jackson family would go out of their way to make it difficult for The Estate, unless there was a big brown envelope full of cash in it for themselves. Quincy, now he seems to become a little bitter towards Michael, would probably have his own agenda.

Apart from that, the continual 'boycott' by a certain section of MJ fans, can only lead them to 'hedge their bets' when considering new releases.
 
I am not the kind of person that finds fault all the time with the estate and usually I would defend them for giving us some great stuff over the years but its in *black and white* that they where going to release OTW as a great package and now they give us this!
I think at the very least we need an explanation why *stringer* told us that they had a massive mount of unreleased material the Sony/Estate change for bare bones release with the doc!

I or one will be chewing the estates ears off o twitter to get an answer!

Terry
 
By the posts here, fans would want the executors to release everything right now, preferably today:)

The fact is that they have to be selective how much they release and when, because what they have in the vaults, have to last at least 50 years.
Unfortunately, along the way, some fans will kick the bucket before (thanks Barbee for reminding me of that:)), but hopefully with these releases, Michael gains new generation fans so his legacy is carried on.


Note to SmoothMJ, you post on page 83 was great and heartfelt, and I fully agree with you.

No matter what, I'm happy to get Spike's documentary which promises "Spike Lee assembles a wealth of archival footage, including material from Michael's personal archive"

Who knows whether footage is MJ singing?
 
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ivy said:
I don't think that general public is a factor. People working for Sony told that they exclusively targeted the fans with Bad 25 release. Their sale goals was 1/3rd lower than the previous general public release. They believed they were giving exactly what the fans asked for - untouched demos, concert etc. Despite this it didn't reach the lower sales goals. Sony were asking why the fans didn't buy. We discussed this long during that time. I believe to them Bad25 showed that fan targeted projects don't bring the sales (lower sales) they hope. So they might feel that demos are better used in releases such as Xscape where they can attract general public rather than releasing them in anniversary releases. Bad 25 clearly didn't pay off so it's not odd to suggest they will try to cut down losses on OTW. Documentary is probably recovering it's own costs with the TV deals.
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I agree with what you wrote. But they did ****ed up massively that release with damaged poor quality VHS release. So they shouldn't be THAT surprised. In my opinion that release was OK, better than MICHAEL, but definitely much much weaker than This Is It or especially Xscape.
 
Tygger said:
Either the Estate fabricated what they had then or they are fabricating what they have now and are blaming Michael for their lazy effort. Which is true? Which is true?
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Estate? Where did you read that?? It says Rob Stringer in the article. I don't even know who that is and we for sure don't know how reliable source he is.
 
barbee0715 said:
This still doesn't prove who is to blame for the lack of the material or tour, etc. It could be Branca, McClain, any Jacksons-it could be Quincy or Rod-or somebody we don't even know about. It could be Sony trying to put out the most cost effective package possible.
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Exactly. The point is that we don't know. And it's not fair to attack Estate without any proof.
 
OnirMJ said:
Estate? Where did you read that?? It says Rob Stringer in the article. I don't even know who that is and we for sure don't know how reliable source he is.
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The estate is mentioned in the same article so of course they are to be blamed what other people say:doh:
 
OnirMJ said:
Estate? Where did you read that?? It says Rob Stringer in the article. I don't even know who that is and we for sure don't know how reliable source he is.
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He is, as the article mentions, the chairman of the Columbia Epic label group, a division of Sony, and thus someone who works with the Estate on these releases. I doubt he would just make something up. Likely, it is based on his discussions with the Estate, as the article mentions they already had plans for the release.

OnirMJ said:
Exactly. The point is that we don't know. And it's not fair to attack Estate without any proof.
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Yet many here are happy to blame Quincy, Rod Temperton or Randy Jackson without proof.

At the very least we can say the Estate's communication failed, because we know that there is material from this era in the archives. It could be true that there are legal reasons for why they cannot currently release this material, but that's not what they say the reason is. The claim they make in their announcement is simply not true.
 
CrazyVegasMJ said:
Why do so many here feel so entitled to everything MJ has ever done in the entirety of his life?

Can't nobody be grateful for what we already have (been given)?
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Yea but why keep getting the same product over & over. His career consists of more than rereleases & greatest hits
 
OnirMJ said:
I agree with what you wrote. But they did ****ed up massively that release with damaged poor quality VHS release. So they shouldn't be THAT surprised. In my opinion that release was OK, better than MICHAEL, but definitely much much weaker than This Is It or especially Xscape.
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This is it was lazy imo...they could've used what they had in the movie on the soundtrack instead of basically another greatest hits album. Seems like that's what thier goin for now. Same as the this is it package. Dvd/cd/new book with new picz
 
^^ That article was released March 2010. Do you think they have done thought vaults by then and have full accurate information? Not according the article you posted as they guy is saying "we are plowing"....

The article states:
Sony and the Jackson estate already have plans in place for a reissue of Jackson's multi-platinum-selling 1979 album "Off the Wall" next year that will contain a trove of new, exclusive material.

"The stuff we have in the vaults around that record is fascinating and remarkable," Stringer said. "We're going to build a whole platform with a documentary. The outtakes are fantastic! We have a lot of great stuff from around every time period [in Jackson's career]. We're plowing through everything now to understand what we've got."

If we are going to start nitpicking who said and what, lets start with this:
Article says "new exclusive material". That material could be included in the SL documentary, so its too early to judge, or it could be the ones that have leaked already.
Secondly, from the estates statement:
"We are sure some will be disappointed that there is not extra material, but as everyone knows, this album was early in Michael’s career. He did not write or record the number of songs for this album as he did for later releases nor did he do any filming using his own camera crews of the making of his short films or other events. Without a wealth of material in the archives, the Estate and Sony decided to take a different approach with this release – strip it down and keep it simple "

Nowhere did they say that they don't have anything, but they say they don't have "wealth", thus they decided not to release the ones what they have from this period.


Nobody actually accused Quincy etc, but said that could be the reason, whereas some of the posts directly accuses the executors of lying.
 
SoCav said:
At the very least we can say the Estate's communication failed, because we know that there is material from this era in the archives. It could be true that there are legal reasons for why they cannot currently release this material, but that's not what they say the reason is. The claim they make in their announcement is simply not true.
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Absolutely!
 
Liberian Man said:
This is it was lazy imo...they could've used what they had in the movie on the soundtrack instead of basically another greatest hits album.
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I meant the movie. But the CD release was also good for me. It could have been better of course. Also soundtrack is soundtrack of the movie. Live album is live album. They decided to release a soundtrack, not live album as every movie has its own soundtrack released. If they released live album, again, a lot of fans would be unhappy because he does not sing live on every song as it was rehearsals, not live show.
 
OnirMJ said:
I meant the movie. But the CD release was also good for me. It could have been better of course. Also soundtrack is soundtrack of the movie. Live album is live album. They decided to release a soundtrack, not live album as every movie has its own soundtrack released. If they released live album, again, a lot of fans would be unhappy because he does not sing live on every song as it was rehearsals, not live show.
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Well technically it wasn't live & we technically heard him sing live on human nature & um....im under the influence so my memory is kind of off right now
a0c3a5928a8961c0f7391341d54fad8a.jpg

Me yesterday recording a video lol
 
Bubs said:
Nowhere did they say that they don't have anything, but they say they don't have "wealth", thus they decided not to release the ones what they have from this period.
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true. Also something interesting as well. they said "nor did he do any filming using his own camera crews of the making of his short films or other events. ".

They didn't say there was no video recording, they said MJ didn't use his own cameras. What's the difference? If MJ used his own cameras he would own the footage and Estate could have used it easily. If someone else did a recording with their own camera, guess what you need to get their permission to release it.
 
SoCav said:
Yet many here are happy to blame Quincy, Rod Temperton or Randy Jackson without proof.
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Without proof? Temperton has already refused to allow material; Quincy has filed a lawsuit; and Randall is still attempting to oust Branca 6 years later.

Given this, it's not a stretch to come to such a conclusion. (And I'm not "blaming" anyone; merely stating that there in all likelihood are other reasons than just the Executors being meanies for why some stuff isn't being released.)
 
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Bubs said:
^^ That article was released March 2010. Do you think they have done thought vaults by then and have full accurate information? Not according the article you posted as they guy is saying "we are plowing"....
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He says that they are "plowing through everything to understand what they got" with regards to "great stuff from around every time period [in Jackson's career]." So no, they had not archived everything that is in the vault from Michael's entire career.

But he is more specific about Off The Wall, saying they have fascinating and remarkable stuff in the vaults "around that record", and that the outtakes (from that ablum) "are fantastic." And the article, which seems entirely based on interviews with Branca and Stringer, further states the reissue will contain a 'trove of new, exclusive material'.

krikzil said:
Without proof? Temperton has already refused to allow material; Quincy has filed a lawsuit; and Randall is still attempting to oust Branca 6 years later.
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None of the things you mention are, as far as we know, directly related to this Off The Wall project. They could be, but we do not know.

The only thing we know for sure is that the Estate's statement, with regards to there not being a lot of material from this era, is just not correct.
 
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