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Exclusive: Inside Michael Jackson’s “Hollywood”

Arklove said:
Who's 'they'? Teddy Riley? Michael didn't SAY that, though...

I'm not bashing the video, just looking at it for what it could have been...A storyline that Michael wrote, following his clear cut path that he left. Handwritten notes/lyrics all up the ying yang, practically an instruction manual, yet Riley decided he wanted to make it positive? How 'bout leaving it the way Michael intended it? It's his art, man, respect that.

As a fan, this has nothing to do with what I want, it's about respecting Mike's life work. He didn't put his blood, sweat, and tears into it for nothing ;)
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it's a saying "always look at the bright side of life".

And with the rest I wasn't referring to you, but to all. thats why i said "You all shoud keep in mind...."

Also i think if the bridge written by Michael was used, not really knowing it was written by him till now, would have bring the most to freak out even more, then the one used in the album. knowing it was sung by T.jackson, i'm sure everyone would say "Michael wolud have never sing something like that".
What really Michael wanted/intended and what not. just because he have written that bridge, doesn't mean he would have used. thats why i think we shouldn go nuts, everytime some new info comes out, that isn't exactly what the end result is/was. And from now on it's always going to be 50% at the most what Michael would have wanted/intended .
 
lom kit said:
it's a saying "always look at the bright side of life".
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hahaha...I know that....I was referring to Teddy Riley as the one who clearly followed this saying when clearly that's not what Michael intended....
 
lom kit said:
it's a saying "always look at the bright side of life".

And with the rest I wasn't referring to you, but to all. thats why i said "You all shoud keep in mind...."

Also i think if the bridge written by Michael was used, not really knowing it was written by him till now, would have bring the most to freak out even more, then the one used in the album. knowing it was sung by T.jackson, i'm sure everyone would say "Michael wolud have never sing something like that".
What really Michael wanted/intended and what not. just because he have written that bridge, doesn't mean he would have used. thats why i think we shouldn go nuts, everytime some new info comes out, that isn't exactly what the end result is/was. And from now on it's always going to be 50% at the most what Michael would have wanted/intended .
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Agree with you again. Whatever we have now is not going to be 100% of what Michael would have intended. I realize this is the nature of posthumous creations.

I realize the producers and filmakers are trying their best and I appreciate their efforts. However, I also believe it's okay for fans to voice criticisms and concerns in a respectful manner. I just don't want to pretend everything is rosy and great when it's not.
 
love is magical said:
I respectfully disagree with you. Since when "playing hot tricks to men" became an American dream? Based on the bridge penned by Michael, I don't think he intended to make this a rosy story. The girl was broke. She didn't have ticket to go home. She's cold. Hollywood Tonight is a cautionary tale for people who want to chase the movie star dream.


I agree with you that the same trademarks are regrugitated because Michael's signature glove, fedora and dance moves appeal to the masses. I'm not against making a video that appeals to the general audience. I'm just afraid that they are branding Michael as a sing-and-dance man and limiting him to just his fedora and sequin jacket. As a fan, I'd love to see other facets of his talents being explored to the public. He's a great song-writer. He saw himself as the platform to send messages out to the world.

Just like all those greatest hit collections, I guess it's never really for the fans.
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I think you are going too much into it. What is the "american dream" about. it s about becoming your dream with happy ending. how you get there isn't importand. been a waitress, pool dancer, giving "hot tricks to men" and ect.
You was someone small that had a dream and succeed. the path in there isn't importand. You made it.



It's a video. how can his song-writer talent be explored there. thats what his songs are for. Visually he is a dancer with glove and fedora. and you're totally right, these 1000x GH are never for the fans. i think everyone knows that, beside none fans. thats why none fans think, "ohh, he doesn't have any ideas any more and just brings hits collections". those GH cds were never Michael decision. why wasn't any unreleased material till now, cause Michael didn't give it to them (Sony).
 
love is magical said:
Agree with you again. Whatever we have now is not going to be 100% of what Michael would have intended. I realize this is the nature of posthumous creations.

I realize the producers and filmakers are trying their best and I appreciate their efforts. However, I also believe it's okay for fans to voice criticisms and concerns in a respectful manner. I just don't want to pretend everything is rosy and great when it's not.
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Yes, but don't you think it's too much voice criticisms and concerns lately. About everything.
the only positive thing coming from the fans is that we are happy about finally we get new single releases. the rest only complainings. And i think most of it is inconsiderate.
 
lom kit said:
I think you are going too much into it. What is the "american dream" about. it s about becoming your dream with happy ending. how you get there isn't importand. been a waitress, pool dancer, giving "hot tricks to men" and ect.
You was someone small that had a dream and succeed. the path in there isn't importand. You made it.



It's a video. how can his song-writer talent be explored there. thats what his songs are for. Visually he is a dancer with glove and fedora.
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But Michael never intended this song to be about the 'American Dream'. The video portrays it as such, though. Therefore, not following Mike's vision when he outlined it so clearly!

And, I completely disagree about the path to success doesn't matter. You want another saying? 'Life's a journey, not a destination'...Clearly, the obstacles this girl had to face are SERIOUS and that is what Mike intended to bring to life.

Michael was known for his highly visual short-films. That was important to him to get his message across. If he was just a hat and a glove, then why does he use a bulldozer on stage to enhance his lyrics and message for Earth Song, for example? Visually he is MUCH more than a dancer with a glove and fedora! He is not a novelty.

His songs and videos meshed together to bring to life what he wanted to say! THAT is important, that is his art, and that is what made him the greatest entertainer that ever lived!
 
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The spoken bridge all this time we have heard is written by Teddy Riley? I have been flexible and understanding with things but I think they should not change the lyrics to the song that Michael wrote. It may have been a spoken bridge part but still that is his work. I wouldn't dream of changing his words to his song. Not even one line but that's just me.
 
Funny thing is that when the build up to the album was happening i was saying that Teddy Riley was the only producer i could trust not to go in and mess with MJ's orginal vision. Looks like i was wrong
 
Arklove said:
But Michael never intended this song to be about the 'American Dream'. The video portrays it as such, though. Therefore, not following Mike's vision when he outlined it so clearly!

And, I completely disagree about the path to success doesn't matter. You want another saying? 'Life's a journey, not a destination'...Clearly, the obstacles this girl had to face are SERIOUS and that is what Mike intended to bring to life.

Michael was known for his highly visual short-films. That was important to him to get his message across. If he was just a hat and a glove, then why does he use a bulldozer on stage to enhance his lyrics and message for Earth Song, for example? Visually he is MUCH more than a dancer with a glove and fedora!

His songs and videos meshed together to bring to life what he wanted to say! THAT is important, that is his art, and that is his legacy!
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The message of the song its totally crear. But I think the possitive message in the video is intentionally. I don't know what is it call when the lyrics don't complies the video.
Like i said it appeals the public. we know it's about open the eyes of the "poor souls" who are running after something that has more down sides, then bright. But again, what Michael intended, it's something we shouldtn go too much into it, cause we don't know. just because some writting by someone reveals some interstiong info, doesn't mean its the one and only thing or truth. thats why i think there is too much negativity lately.

And if you want to show what Michael was Visually in 4 min video, you'll used the the glove and the dance moves.
what Michael done on stage and in his songs is to express his messages and feelings and himself.
that are two different things.
 
lom kit said:
I think you are going too much into it. What is the "american dream" about. it s about becoming your dream with happy ending. how you get there isn't importand. been a waitress, pool dancer, giving "hot tricks to men" and ect.
You was someone small that had a dream and succeed. the path in there isn't importand. You made it.
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Oh well, this is not how I define the "American dream". But, each to his own. It's tricky to get into morality issue.


lom kit said:
It's a video. how can his song-writer talent be explored there. thats what his songs are for. Visually he is a dancer with glove and fedora. and you're totally right, these 1000x GH are never for the fans. i think everyone knows that, beside none fans. thats why none fans think, "ohh, he doesn't have any ideas any more and just brings hits collections". those GH cds were never Michael decision. why wasn't any unreleased material till now, cause Michael didn't give it to them (Sony).
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I think a good video can help exploring song-writing talent. Visual can have much impact. For instance, when I watch the video of Stranger in Moscow, that feeling of loneliness lingers and lingers. It forces me to feel the lyrics. That profound way of expressing one's suffering and pain is hauntingly astounding. Michael Jackson would not be hailed as a music video pioneer if he thought "it's just a video. let's just put some great dance moves there and call it a day." Visually, he was way more than a dancer with glove and fedora. How about They Don't Care About Us and Earth Song? Two videos without any signature dance moves or glove or fedora; yet managed to make an impact.

The bolded part is my concern. Many non-fans do not know Michael Jackson was much more than a great dancer. I have heard many people saying Michael Jackson was famous for only Thriller, Billie Jean, Beat It and Smooth Criminal and that Michael Jackson ran out of new ideas after the 80's. Sometimes, I don't blame them because these are what the media, Sony and now the Estate are feeding to the general public constantly. They keep regurgitating the same exact signature moves.

I mean isn't it nice to get something different out and have the general audience wonder "wow... that Michael Jackson video is great. I haven't seen something like this from him before. let's check out what he did other than Billie Jean." (wishful thinking, I know.)
 
analogue said:
Funny thing is that when the build up to the album was happening i was saying that Teddy Riley was the only producer i could trust not to go in and mess with MJ's orginal vision. Looks like i was wrong
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I had the same opinion like you. now i don't.
 
lom kit said:
Yes, but don't you think it's too much voice criticisms and concerns lately. About everything.
the only positive thing coming from the fans is that we are happy about finally we get new single releases. the rest only complainings. And i think most of it is inconsiderate.
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Well, Sony doesn't have the best record. Do you think Sony and the Estate tried the best they can with the album (I'm not talking about the authenticity controversy, but generally speaking)? I admit some do complain inconsiderably. But, some do have valid concerns. It's just not right to generalize and call the people who have unfavourable opinons as fans who always whine and complain.

I strongly support This Is It and have only good thing to say about the project. I love the Opus. However, I'm disappointed at Vision and MICHAEL. Trust me, I still have hope in future releases, but part of the excitements are gone.
 
love is magical said:
I think a good video can help exploring song-writing talent. Visual can have much impact. For instance, when I watch the video of Stranger in Moscow, that feeling of loneliness lingers and lingers. It forces me to feel the lyrics. That profound way of expressing one's suffering and pain is hauntingly astounding. Michael Jackson would not be hailed as a music video pioneer if he thought "it's just a video. let's just put some great dance moves there and call it a day." Visually, he was way more than a dancer with glove and fedora. How about They Don't Care About Us and Earth Song? Two videos without any signature dance moves or glove or fedora; yet managed to make an impact.

The bolded part is my concern. Many non-fans do not know Michael Jackson was much more than a great dancer. I have heard many people saying Michael Jackson was famous for only Thriller, Billie Jean, Beat It and Smooth Criminal and that Michael Jackson ran out of new ideas after the 80's. Sometimes, I don't blame them because these are what the media, Sony and now the Estate are feeding to the general public constantly. They keep regurgitating the same exact signature moves.

I mean isn't it nice to get something different out and have the general audience wonder "wow... that Michael Jackson video is great. I haven't seen something like this from him before. let's check out what he did other than Billie Jean." (wishful thinking, I know.)
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it's very true what you're saying. But it was done by Michael himself. he was there. now it's different. i think we shouldn't compare the past with the present and future. that why i feel many are disappointed with the videos.
Could it be done better or different? maybe, i don't know. you'll always feel something is missing.

And i lost my excitements 10 years ago. to me the album was "pushed" like the album of any other artist.
 
^Arklove, are you my lost sister? It's great to have someone who thinks in the same wave length.

It's quite scary to see how close our opinons are to each other.
 
lom kit said:
But again, what Michael intended, it's something we shouldtn go too much into it, cause we don't know. just because some writting by someone reveals some interstiong info, doesn't mean its the one and only thing or truth. thats why i think there is too much negativity lately.
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Yes, we DO know! Michael's lyrics, handwritten notes, bridge for this song! How is it not clear what his intentions for this song were?

Obviously it was intentional to make the video/spoken bridge more positive...That's what Teddy said, clearly lol. The issue I have is why change it when Michael practically left an instruction manual?

Wanting respect for the man's art is hardly being negative, or bitching, or complaining. Like I said, it's not about me as a fan. It's about Michael and what he worked hard for only to have someone come and say, 'hmm...nah, I don't like this, let's change it'....Um, no.

It's like changing Billie Jean to say ...'Billie Jean IS my lover and the kid IS my son' :mello:

But I digress. I really don't know what else to say to get my point across. I'm exhausted. lol
 
lom kit said:
it's very true what you're saying. But it was done by Michael himself. he was there. now it's different. i think we shouldn't compare the past with the present and future. that why i feel many are disappointed with the videos.
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I don't disagree with you. I know I'm an offender myself. I can't help to compare all these posthumous works to Michael's past masterpieces. I know I should just compare the works to what the industry offers nowadays. But, I just can't help. It takes time. I guess.

For me, all these new releases work both way. On one hand, I'm excited and am grateful for the chance to hear unreleased material. On the other hand, it's quite depressing because all these new works just make his absence more apparent than ever.

The genius of Michael Jackson cannot be replicate. It seems he not only gave us his talents, he could also drive out the best from his collaborators.
 
Arklove said:
But I digress. I really don't know what else to say to get my point across. I'm exhausted. lol
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same here. one question. ask your self, will they ever make a video like tdcau(prison) and such? even with Michael's lyrics, handwritten notes of his intentions. Michael would. why wouldn't they?
"they" are the people running "the show" now.
 
lom kit said:
"they" are the people running "the show" now.
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This is what scares me lol

And in answer to your question: I don't know. They managed to ignore Michael's intentions for this video/song. No, we won't get epic videos like we're used to from Mike. But the notes and lyrics he left is a good start to at least coming somewhat close. It's not as if they went into this blindly.
 
love is magical said:
I don't disagree with you. I know I'm an offender myself. I can't help to compare all these posthumous works to Michael's past masterpieces. I know I should just compare the works to what the industry offers nowadays. But, I just can't help. It takes time. I guess.

For me, all these new releases work both way. On one hand, I'm excited and am grateful for the chance to hear unreleased material. On the other hand, it's quite depressing because all these new works just make his absence more apparent than ever.

The genius of Michael Jackson cannot be replicate. It seems he not only gave us his talents, he could also drive out the best from his collaborators.
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I think you know the answer, but it's like you don't want to realize. i don't mean it in negative way. thats why to me there should be a line, what it was and what is now and going to be.
 
lom kit said:
same here. one question. ask your self, will they ever make a video like tdcau(prison) and such? even with Michael's lyrics, handwritten notes of his intentions. Michael would. why wouldn't they?
"they" are the people running "the show" now.
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great question. good post that gets people to think.

when the whole world said it's too risky, michael said yes i'll do it.

when the whole world said why, michael said why not.

when sony said it's costs too much, michael said i'll pay from my own pockets.

just remember this "however great you think michael jackson was, he was greater."
 
lom kit said:
I think you know the answer, but it's like you don't want to realize. i don't mean it in negative way. thats why to me there should be a line, what it was and what is now and going to be.
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Yeah, I know the answer and you are absolutely right. I don't want to face reality for the truth hurts. It's called escapism.
 
Quite disappointing to find out Teddy took it upon himself to change the bridge, thus altering the whole ambiance of the record.
 
The more I learn about what they've done, the more annoyed I get.

LEAVE IT ALONE.
 
I have and do try to be fair and understanding but nobody should ever change the lyrics to any of his songs. Not even one line. That's crossing the line to me. I want to hear what Michael had to say and not what someone else thought the song should be. Especially knowing that he worked on and off on this song for years.
 
As i read the bridge Michael wrote, it was almost as if i could hear his soft voice, speaking low but at a speedy pace, Hiccupping, and holding back emotion... its like for the minute i first read it...i had a vision of what the song could have been if he finished it.
 
Great article. I like this Vogel guy, he seems to get Michael unlike other critics out there. Good positive vibe on Hollywood Tonight video and song.

But, I have to say as positive as I am and quite supportive of the estate/Sony and Teddy, I was disappointed to find out Michael did have lyrics written for the bridge portion, and Teddy messed with it.

Hopefully it won't happen again. I am not going to start getting panicky and angry about any future projects because of this. After all, they did change it for the video version, and they made it sound more like what Michael wanted.

I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt. After all, they did listen to the fans and changed it around. And many of you like the "raw" vocals so that is all good. They seem to be learning from their mistakes so hopefully it will show in the next unreleased project.

Thanks for posting! :D
 
love is magical said:
Michael was searching for a distinct baseline. He did not request to have the "Billie Jean kick's and snares" to be incorporated in Hollywood Tonight.
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Well, he didn't request any of the other mixes either, but this one is apparently the closest to what he wanted for the song. I would trust the people who actually worked with him and knew him to know better in what direction he was going.

Just because Michael danced through the video doesn't mean the video is not dark. The story line, the imagery, the vibe of Billie Jean are very mysterious and intriguing.
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Mysterious yes, but not overly dark as some people seem to want for HT to be. It doesn't re-enact the lyrics literally either. And the most memorable and iconic part is still the dancing and not anything else, it's what the video is mostly known for.

Arklove said:
But Michael never intended this song to be about the 'American Dream'. The video portrays it as such, though. Therefore, not following Mike's vision when he outlined it so clearly!
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Frankly, we don't really know what Michael intended for a video for this song. He could've made a video that had nothing to do with the lyrics for all we know. What he intended for the lyrics and for a video could be two different things. We will never know.

People need to stop having high expectations for these videos without MJ. These people are doing the best they can (with the budget they have) and you can tell they did it with great love and respect for Mike. Just take it for what it is.

It's unfair to place any high expectations on them -- nobody can do it like MJ and nobody knows how and what he would've done or liked (and, no, the fans don't know either, even though some seem to think they do lol)
 
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