You know, I can agree with most of your post when I look at the GENERALIZED big picture...But I can't agree with you that they did it with great love and respect for Mike...At least, not when it comes to Riley changing the lyrics to Michael's bridge to make it more positive. Come on, now, you can't honestly believe that this is acceptable to do to his work?
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Exclusive: Inside Michael Jackson’s “Hollywood”
- Thread starter qbee
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You know, I can agree with most of your post when I look at the GENERALIZED big picture...But I can't agree with you that they did it with great love and respect for Mike...At least, not when it comes to Riley changing the lyrics to Michael's bridge to make it more positive. Come on, now, you can't honestly believe that this is acceptable to do to his work?
0o0jackie0o0
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wow. thats awesome. thanks for posting
serendipity
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Well, I was talking about the videos and the people who worked on them. I have no idea why they felt the need to change the lyrics for the bridge. Of course I don't approve of this and would've preferred MJ's lyrics to be used.
It's interesting though, that the 3T participated in this and didn't seem to have a problem with the change of MJ's lyrics. Me thinks they've been a little selective with the protection of their uncle's legacy. lol
love is magical
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serendipity;3295750 said:
How do you know that the Throwback remix is "apparently" the closest to what Michael would have intended? I'm afraid this is just your assumption. Vogel said Michael was searching for a DISTINCTIVE bassline. He was looking for something different. As a matter of fact, he didn't request the Throwback mix. No one knows what he would have done to Hollywood Tonight.
Actually, I don't mind the Billie Jean drum beats. I prefer the Throwback mix to the album mix. Just saying...
serendipity;3295750 said:
As far as I understand, no one is asking the director to make a video that is as dark and gloomy as a Dickens novel. What some of us have issue with is that we feel the positive spin deliberately placed by the producers and the director of the video is not a fair intrepretation of Michael's vision.
Let's take a look to the "story" of Hollywood Tonight penned by Michael, himself.
"Story"
Girl run away, age 15.
She dreams of fame, riches, illusion of superstardom.
Her mission is to make it in Hollywood.
The obstacles she undertakes are unberable, but she makes against her parents' will.
A true story based on truth.
Now, let's look at the bridge written by Michael.
She doesn’t even have a ticket
She doesn’t even have a way back home
She’s lost and she’s alone
There’s no place for her to go
She is young and she is cold
Just like her father told her so
It's quite straightforward, isn't it? Michael intended it to be a cautionary tale for those who chase the movie star dreams.
It's brilliant song-writing right there. The image he created is vivid. I can picture all the struggles the girl has gone through already. It's like part II of DYKWYCA. This is the story the producers of the HT video failed to tell.
It seems Teddy Riley and Sony saw the story written by Michael and felt it's too sad for the general audience. You know, good story is more marketable and sells better. So, they put a positive twist to Michael's vision.
Back to the video of Billie Jean. Let's not reduce the iconic video to just dancing and underplay it's significance. Billie Jean is not only known for the spin and tip toe, it's also known as the video that revolutionized the arts of music video making. Before Billie Jean, music videos were merely marketing tool to sell albums, they were far from being an art form. Billie Jean let people realize the potential of music videos. It's cool to have a story line. It's cool to have imaginative imagery. The video got people talking, wondering and marveling. The vibe of the video is mysterious and dangerous. I can sense the risk and unkown. It got a certain depth in the story. It's intriguing.
serendipity;3295750 said:
I agree that nobody knows what Michael would have wanted. I'm not against the Estate, the producers and the director. I appreciate their efforts in bringing Michael's unreleased materials to life, but they need to do so in a way that stays true to Michael's arts. In my humble opinon, I don't think it's right for fans to "take it for what it is". We are not helping with Michael's legacy if we keep on accepting whatever being thrown to us. If we keep on buying all these deviations from Michael's crafts and visions, I'm afraid a "duet" between Michael Jackson and Justin Bieber might be on its way.
If the Estate is listening, then I want to say I understand they need to make all these releases marketable to the masses, but I hope they find a right balance and don't cross the line.
Fans don't know exactaly what Michael would have wanted, neither do all these producers.
Fans do have one thing all these producers don't have. Fans put Michael's arts on top of the priority list. These producers had the honor to work with Michael and witness genius in the past. Now, unlike us, they may not put artistic quality over marketability.
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Hollywood Tonight (DJ Chuckie Extended Remix - No Talk) [Official]
Ashtanga
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serendipity
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Yes, different, but similar to the BJ bassline. lol I'm just going by this article.
OK, we agree that he didn't request any of those mixes, so saying he would've never done this or that is just silly. We really don't know.
Like I said, when it comes to the video we don't know what MJ's vision could've been about that. It could've been something totally different. Also, the director was going by the mix for the video and there's not even a spoken bridge there.
Yes, yes, but it still isn't a truly dark video. It's not going exactly by the lyrics too. It got people talking alright, but mostly about MJ's incredible dancing than anything else.
No but, it seems some fans have a problem with everything when it comes to this project. Whether it's a cover or a video or a mix or whatever, it seems they're hell bent in finding faults with it.
LOL, I doubt it, but don't forget MJ duetted with Britney and Akon already :lol:
love is magical
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I'm also just going by the article. He wanted a DISTINTIVE bassline. Actually, it's sillier to think he would have used the exact same Bille Jean drum beats. He worked and worked and worked on Invincible so that the sound would be DISTINCTIVE and that nobody can duplicate the same sound.
Again, I don't mind the BJ drumbeat in HT. But, I really would like to point out that Michael Jackson was a creative and innovative person.
Even without the spoken bridge, the story is a sad story about a girl chasing this elusive movie star dream. Do you think the filmmakers stay true to the heart of the story?
No one is saying Billie Jean is a dark video. I'm not saying the director has to make a dark and depressing video that sinks your stomach the moment you watch it.
About the video of Billie Jean, I honestly don't know why you think people mostly remember Michael's "incredible dancing" than anything else. I'm not talking about the Motown 25 performance, but the actual video itself. There isn't any elaborate dance number in the video; although the dancing steps that light up the side walk and the spin are truly mesmerizing. But, the choreography is no Beat It or Thriller.
I agree with you some fans' complaints are inconsiderable. However, some of us do try to be reasonable in voicing our opinions, not becasue we like to trash the project, but because of our love and respect to Michael.
While it isn't right to whine all the time, it isn't right to pretend everything is great and awesome all the time neither.
Lol... I don't consider that MSG 40th Anniversary performance with Britney a duet. It's a performance I don't watch often. It's quite painful to see how Michael tried to save his own song.
As for Akon, I think he's more than a tween idol. :cheeky:
lom kit
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thank you. very well said.
HIStory
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I agree. On "Michael" I like his production work the most. I can't say I love what Teddy did with his songs, to be honest.
I just read this article. Like many before me said I can't understand why Sony had to change Michael's concept of the song. If he intended it to be dark then it should be dark, period! Noone would go and change the ending of Romeo and Juliet just because it's too dark for the general audience or something! This is crazy. :doh:
claudiadoina
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HA! Exactly
Just because you see Mike dancing, doesn't mean it's not dark. Michael dances with angry, dramatic emotion....He's not here to do the dancing, so it's the director's responsibility to portray this darkness onscreen using other methods...Which he failed to do...claudiadoina
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Sorry but why the is this "with the budget they have"?
The budget should be an issue to them?
This video looks cheap to me.
And this one "are doing the best they can"?
Well, it's not good enough for me.
I don't care how good of a dancer Sofia is, I don't want her to do Michael's moves.I don't want anybody to do Michael's moves.
lom kit
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I don't know why, but some people looks like they don't think properly. when did Sony or any other company spend amount of money for videos?
all these expensive videos were paid by Michael.
Sony spend the same money they spend for any other artist. the last time there was a none looking cheap video made was year 2000.
I think many didn't get the concept of the HT video. He was her inspiration, that keeped her going on, to succeed. And not dancing Mj moves to fill the video, cause he is not there.
If the video was montage of different videos, you all be bashing even more. yeah yeah, montage of unseen footage. forget that dream.
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You know what? We DO understand the concept of the video..The problem is the video doesn't match the dark lyrics....And, on top of this, it's a direct result of Riley changing the lyrics of a Michael Jackson song....You don't change Michael Jackson's lyrics! Come on now!
There is a way to honour Michael's work he put his blood, sweat, and tears in. This isn't the way to do it. And, I'd rather see a montage of unseen footage than the blatant disrespect they've shown so far by ignoring his message.
It's funny that Sony didn't want to shell out the money for Invincible's videos and promotion, and now, posthumously, they're willing to shell out the bucks for TWO videos practically back to back...
Budget, my ass...
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lom kit
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Come on, give up on those damned "dark" lyrics. Videos not necessary have to match the lyrics.
And I don't think they "shell out" that much money.
the Invincible era and now are two totally different things, like day and night. Sony didn't want to spend money for more videos, cause they didn't see the commercial "need" for that. Michael wanted "Unbreakable" to be another 5 mio video.
It was said many times, don't compare the past with today's times. not only for Michael, but the whole music busines has changet dramatically. You should think more adequate, how the music industry today is.
And for a dead person, you just can't expect more, then that. No one , no one would do more then what the Estate and Sony are doing and spending for posthumous projects. even for Michael Jackson.
Elvis, Beatless get unreleased matterial permanent. do you see videos or single releases.
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Those 'damned dark lyrics' are what Michael Jackson wrote! That Teddy Riley CHANGED! How disrespectful! You can go ahead and ignore that. I will continue to honour and respect Michael Jackson for the genius he was. He's being transformed into a novelty act right before our eyes.
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love is magical
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Had Michael been given the chance to work on his $5-million-plus-video of Unbreakable, we'd have one more masterpiece to enjoy. I wonder what the potential of Unbreakable and Threatened would be.
Let's try to understand some fans' point of views here. Fans are not stupid. We know how to exercise our brains. We know the music industry is continuously deteriorating. The big-budget video is a thing of the past. A video created for youtube is never going to generate the same level of excitement a typical Michael Jackson video brought us. We are so passionate about videos because Michael Jackson was the artist who single-handedly revolutionized this particular art form. He's a pioneer and the master of this domain. Fans and the general public associate Michael Jackson with groudbreaking short-films. So, it's a bitter pill for so many of us to swallow when we saw two not-so-special videos released with his name.
As big as the Beatles and Elvis, none of them created any memorable short films. Their fans don't care about a "new" Beatles videos. They never had it before and probably won't have it in the future. When John Lennon died in 1980, MTV was not even formed.
Are Sony and the Estate doing enough to promote Michael? I guess it's too premature to answer. Why they are doing what they are doing to a dead artist? It's because this dead artist still manages to sell more than most of the living artist globally. A posthumous project on Michael Jackson may still be more profitable than any project on a living artist.
serendipity
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It.Doesn't.Have.To.Match.The.Lyrics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You're right. Now that we know Teddy CHANGED the lyrics and subsequently made the video positive. In the same token, I guess the lyrics DON'T HAVE TO MATCH WHAT MICHAEL JACKSON WROTE HIMSELF. But, hey, that's ok, right?
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love is magical
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MJ fans and not only are still being in pain over Mike death.
An overly dramatic and tragic video, would make wounds bleed...
Their decision to not make it too dramatic is a good one, also the song is uptempo not ballad, maybe for a ballad the tragic vibe could have been more in the face.... But for an uptempo? Hard to combine tragic video and uptempo song/singing.
So the video is OK, beautiful. Not extraordinary like Mike would have done, but ONLY Mike can do that? How could you expect extraordinary from other people than Mike?
Still is good to have, than to have nothing. The video is nice, is decent, and the song superb. Enjoy it folks!:wub: