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French interview of Dr Freeze about the next MJ album

kasi said:
Proofs??? Because i can say the same thing about lots of people? Were are your proofs?And are you really trying to say to us that in all those songs that Michael is credited as a co-songwritter, he didn't write any of it? Maybe he didn't write Beat it, or Stranger in Moscow at all, who knows??
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Actually, Brad Buxer should have been credited for Stranger in Moscow, because he did co-write it. But he was fine with letting MJ get sole credit. For more info, check out the amazingly great thread on MJ on the Gearslutz forum.

The fake credit thing only happened on Invincible, thank God. Until then, there is no controversy regarding who wrote what. But during the Invincible period, MJ wasn't as creative and productive as usual, and he depended a lot on other people's material.

As to where all of that info comes from, it's from interviews with the people involved, and from having access to some of the demos.
 
kreen said:
Actually, Brad Buxer should have been credited for Stranger in Moscow, because he did co-write it. But he was fine with letting MJ get sole credit. For more info, check out the amazingly great thread on MJ on the Gearslutz forum.

The fake credit thing only happened on Invincible, thank God. Until then, there is no controversy regarding who wrote what. But during the Invincible period, MJ wasn't as creative and productive as usual, and he depended a lot on other people's material.

As to where all of that info comes from, it's from interviews with the people involved, and from having access to some of the demos.
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Oh now Brad Buxer co-wrote SIM? How do you know that? Were is it writen? Again can you please give me proofs for all the things that you are claiming? Please Proofs?
 
kreen said:
But during the Invincible period, MJ wasn't as creative and productive as usual, and he depended a lot on other people's material.
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And you were in Jackson's head or vicinity to have known that, right? .... He had literally close to a hundred songs he wrote for each album, in any case, many songs, and you're stating without a doubt that his creativity was scarce. And if others around him say that, that's a fact, right? Did he tell them he wasn't as creative? You can say his self-confidence was at times, and of right, shaken, due to the many blows he got all his life on behalf of plenty, that would make anyone go down and sulk, but saying that his creativity for 'Invincible' was not that good sounds bogus/speculative and in line with the media's character attacks at Jackson calling him a has-been. Besides, Jackson's voice during Invincible was deeper and richer than ever before that era, and Invincible was his first album he did as a father; he said how right after his first son was born, his creativity was sky-high, more than before.

So, songs like "Blue Gangster", "Slave To The Rhythm" and many other unreleased Invincible gems are reflective of a poor inspiration?

So, allow some not to take others' word (esp those bragging about working with Jackson) in this case as fact.
 
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kreen said:
But during the Invincible period, MJ wasn't as creative and productive as usual, and he depended a lot on other people's material.
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I didn't know that there was, actual, proof of this. I was under the impression that most people just assumed so, because of all the credits given to everyone else, but in reality, none of us who worked with MJ in the studio at that time really know.

So it's best not to make assumptions.
 
kreen said:
Actually, Brad Buxer should have been credited for Stranger in Moscow, because he did co-write it. But he was fine with letting MJ get sole credit. For more info, check out the amazingly great thread on MJ on the Gearslutz forum.
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You are making a lot of assumption man without having one single proof. If you haven't noticed it, Michael was one of the few artist who would give without hesitation credits to other people who worked with him. And he did. If STM was co-writen, the name of the other person would have been on the credit list.It is sad that people are claiming all that stuff not that Michael isn't here to defend himself.And it's bad because there are people who actually believe them.So, again, if you don't have any single proof to back up what you are saying, you just making speculation and bad ones.

kreen said:
The fake credit thing only happened on Invincible, thank God. Until then, there is no controversy regarding who wrote what.
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But didn't you just said that Stranger in Moscow was co-writen and Mike took all the credits? You are contradicting yourself.

Now, if you want to go in the speculation and rumors camp,I have heard and read a lot of things in different fan sites about other artist who refuse to give credits to people who worked with them. On of them is no other than Michael's famous "rival". Do i know it for fact? No, i wasn't there.And because i don't know it for fact, i don't reproduce those "fact" because for me are just rumors.
The sad thing for me though regarding this conversations is that even Michael's fan are willing to believe everything that people are claiming about him. It just show me that even they have doupts about Mike's abilities or talend.
 
I understand that people are disappointed to learn that MJ didn't write most of Invincible : I was too, and it kept me from enjoying the album for the longest time. But now I see it for what it is : an album of MJ, the singer, instead of MJ, the songwriter. It's similar to the old Motown albums, in a way.

As for people who are so in love with the notion that "MJ did it all" that they won't even believe the actual writers and producers of the album, all of whom have nothing but praise for MJ, well, that's your loss.

Gearslutz is a forum dedicated to sound engineering. Some of the most respected sound engineers in the business post regularly on it. The thread I mentioned earlier started when somebody asked a few questions to Rob Hoffman, who worked with MJ on HIStory. The whole thread is gold!
 
kreen;3231690 said:
I understand that people are disappointed to learn that MJ didn't write most of Invincible : I was too, and it kept me from enjoying the album for the longest time. But now I see it for what it is : an album of MJ, the singer, instead of MJ, the songwriter. It's similar to the old Motown albums, in a way.

As for people who are so in love with the notion that "MJ did it all" that they won't even believe the actual writers and producers of the album, all of whom have nothing but praise for MJ, well, that's your loss.

Gearslutz is a forum dedicated to sound engineering. Some of the most respected sound engineers in the business post regularly on it. The thread I mentioned earlier started when somebody asked a few questions to Rob Hoffman, who worked with MJ on HIStory. The whole thread is gold!
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Just to make myself clear here i am not disappointed at anything. In fact, when i was just a regular fan,i didn't even know that Michael was a song writer.I just admired him for his singing and his videos and the melodies of his songs and that’s it.But when i started to learn more things about him, i was surprised to learn that some of my favourite songs of his were written by him.
Believe me, i know too much about Michael and his work and his concerts and everything.I know the good and the bad stuff.. Few things can disappoint me now. I don't care if he didn't write a single song on Invincible. (Again, there is not a single proof of it but if you want to believe that, that is your right) If you couldn’t enjoy the album because of that, then that is your problem. If you are so obsessed with artist doing everything, producing,singing,writing,engineering,playing all the instruments then I guess you don’t listen much music right? Because the making of an album is a team work.No one does it everything by him/herself.
So, like I said in my previous comment, if I don’t see an actual proof, I prefer to believe the credits that say that Michael did participate actively in the making of Invincible and that he wrote SIM all by himself. If you prefer to believe someone that said something in an internet forum protected by the anonymity and the safety of internet ,again that is your right.
So, from what I understand we have different views on the subject and that’s fine.Βut here my adivice. Don't take what people say on internet forum as a gospel because people can lie and exaggerate trying to make themselfs look important. Having said that i am not going to bother you again because i am seriously start looking and behaving like a stalker. :)
 
kreen said:
Don't believe what you read in the Invincible booklet : MJ was given credits on songs he neither produced nor wrote. It's a common practice (sadly) in the industry now. For instance, the guy who wrote "Whatever Happens" said basically that in order for his song to be picked for the album, he had to allow MJ and Teddy Riley to share cowriting credits.

However, someone said earlier that MJ didn't write Blood on the Dance Floor. Actually, this is one song that he DID write. Bill Bottrell said that he had written a song by that title, and MJ heard the title and wrote a completely new song based on it. As for the backing music, it was something Teddy Riley had given MJ earlier. So the vocal melody and lyrics are MJ's.
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I hear you man. Granted. However ''Break of dawn'' still has a very distinctive MJ sound. I'm not a musician so I can't articulated like I should but If you've listened to MJ long enough you can recognise certian elements of his production. I remember hearing that song for the first time and Michael Jackson was written all over it. So basicly I'm not disputing what you said but I think it doesn't apply to ''Break of dawn''. It just can't.
 
kreen said:
I understand that people are disappointed to learn that MJ didn't write most of Invincible : I was too, and it kept me from enjoying the album for the longest time. But now I see it for what it is : an album of MJ, the singer, instead of MJ, the songwriter. It's similar to the old Motown albums, in a way.

As for people who are so in love with the notion that "MJ did it all" that they won't even believe the actual writers and producers of the album, all of whom have nothing but praise for MJ, well, that's your loss.

Gearslutz is a forum dedicated to sound engineering. Some of the most respected sound engineers in the business post regularly on it. The thread I mentioned earlier started when somebody asked a few questions to Rob Hoffman, who worked with MJ on HIStory. The whole thread is gold!
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No offense, but this is the most silliest reasoning not to enjoy a piece of art. The SILLIEST. Who cares about whether or not he shared co-writing credits on almost every single song?! In the end, it's all about how the music and albums sounds, as a whole. My issue with what was said that he was "less creative" during this album. There is just no proof of this. You were not in the studio recording with him. I don't know why he took a lot of songs from others and used those instead or decided to rewrite them. Maybe he had a bunch of his own, but decided not to use them.? This is possible. The point is that you were not there to make said assumptions. In the end, who cares?! This isn't necessary. All that matters is whether the songs are good or not. Also, it's not as if this was a constant issue unlike with some contemporary artists out there today where writers have to come out of the woodwork and try to get some credit from those artists who have to steal it. That would have been an entirely different issue.

Doesn't matter, because, in the end, music is more of a group effort. Only rock fans/critics (Prince fans too) make a big deal about who wrote what and when. Even then they also get help from other musicians, hence the band setting. Music is a reflection of the culture and it's not a sole thing. For some musicians it might be, but that's them and that's how they work. No lost love there.

Also, I have read the entire thread @ Gearslutz as well thank you very much. =)
 
OK, Sorry for going off topic here but..........
Thanks for posting the interview Lidwinee and to MJMirror for the translation.
I loved reading about Dr.Freeze's experience with MJ in the studio.
We never saw him do his vocal exercises before us, but when he came into the studio to record,
he stood before the microphone and set fire to the song. As he left,
the studio was in ashes and our jaws on the floor. It was really impressive to see .
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Great qoute. :) Love it.
And I aint surprised. He had the ability to do that...effortlessly.

Michael is magic.
 
kreen said:
I understand that people are disappointed to learn that MJ didn't write most of Invincible
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No, 'most' informed one, you don't.

kreen said:
It's similar to the old Motown albums, in a way.
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No, it isn't.

kreen said:
As for people who are so in love with the notion that "MJ did it all"
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Nobody here is. If we believed he did it all, we wouldn't have read the album song credits so as nor to ruin our fantasy.

kreen said:
Gearslutz is a forum dedicated to sound engineering. Some of the most respected sound engineers in the business post regularly on it. The thread I mentioned earlier started when somebody asked a few questions to Rob Hoffman, who worked with MJ on HIStory. The whole thread is gold!
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Well, then, have a nice return and experience at Gearslutz, and leave us, blind ignorants, on here to discuss the Freeze interview.
 
Who cares if mj wrote a song or didnt, as long as we hear his voice thats all that matters, right?
 
kreen said:
That's not how it works at all : the songwriter and the singer agree to share songwriting credits, even when the singer didn't actually write the song. It's a win-win solution : the singer gets extra money, and the songwriter gets to have his song on a major release by a major artist, which means more money for him.

Do you think that Madonna, Britney Spears, Beyonce or any of those pop stars actually wrote all those songs they're credited on? Just listen to the original demos of some of those songs on Youtube, and you'll find they're similar to the finished products.

If you need to rationalize it so MJ doesn't come off as a liar, I guess you can say that his ad-libs qualify as lyrics, and that's why he got a credit.
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You need to give us proofs, not links to forums. Like official statement from the folks.

Besides for the guy who said he wrote "Whatever happened", for that song there are a lot of names as a co-writers registered, not just Michael's name (Writer: Gilbert Cang, Michael Jackson, J. Quay, Teddy Riley, Geoffrey William). I guess the song originally wasn't that good, since so many people, did add something to make the song as it is on the album. Another wise why would MJJ went through all the trouble to get all of them as a co-writer if they did not contribute? If the song in album is not the same as it was original given, who ever made the change needs to be credit regardless how minuscule "in your eyes" that change is. Because the song is not anymore "his/her" originally and absolutely.
 
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@ Kreen ...the link u posted is very very insightful ...thanx alot !
 
It's about time............


Just no more badly edited demos...........or random "posthumous duets" (if the upcoming "duet album" is actually happening)...........


We just want the actual complete songs that Michael recorded!!!!


We need to tell Sony/Estate that anything less then that is unacceptable!!!!...........
 
I had read many people accused michael of "stealing" the song 'whatever happens', and took the song writing credit, that is so ridiculous. The song was composed by Five people, Michael Jackson is the initiator so his name was in the first place. The lyrics/meaning were similar to "don't walk away". The song is so personal, it was so obviously written during his divorce/break up period. After LMP's interview, it's not hard to guess who she was. similarly, "Break of Dawn" is initially written by Dr.Freeze, but Michael turned the song into his personal stories, he changed the song+lyrics so he took part of the song writing credit.

Teddy Riley's twitter:
@TeddyRiley1 someone put "whatever happens" demo by Gil Cang/Geoffrey on YT, and claimed Mike and you stole their song. True?

very untrue. Why are they just coming now? Makes no sense.
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Michael always respect talents and gave chances to those young artists, for example, butterflies song writer and producer Andre Harris. He didn't put his name on this 20 something young artist's song, simply because he didn't write it. whoever came out after his death to claim otherwise are attention seekers and liars.

Michael Jackson had so many god given talents because he had the humble, grateful, and genuine heart, which apparently most people in today's world lacked. is there anything left Michael Jackson haven't been accused yet?:bugeyed
 
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loveforever said:
is there anything left Michael Jackson haven't been accused yet?:bugeyed
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Yes. I don't think that he has ever been accused of being one of the reasons for the outbreak of the First and Second World War and that is only because he wasn't born yet. But, he has been accused of being a Nazi worshiper so i guess that you can say that they have tried to connect him with that period one way or another.
 
Dr Freez did not say anything wrong , he only said that he gave the song to MJ and MJ liked it and sang it !!!

honestly you are making no sense at ALL !

the creidts say 1-Dr. Freez ....2- Michael Jackson !!! so wo is the one who made the song in the first place ?

why you try to make us hate evreyone ,,,are we fans of the hatred or love !?
 
kreen said:
Actually, Brad Buxer should have been credited for Stranger in Moscow, because he did co-write it. But he was fine with letting MJ get sole credit. For more info, check out the amazingly great thread on MJ on the Gearslutz forum.

The fake credit thing only happened on Invincible, thank God. Until then, there is no controversy regarding who wrote what. But during the Invincible period, MJ wasn't as creative and productive as usual, and he depended a lot on other people's material.

As to where all of that info comes from, it's from interviews with the people involved, and from having access to some of the demos.
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Oh God really, now some fans are accusing Michael, and without any proof??? wow! , i read everything on that forum about MJ and just makes me realize just how great michael was... but you i mean yougot all WRONG!, and i dont understand just why are you saying Brad Buxer should be credited... :lol: well your head must be more trained than mine.... :smilerolleyes:


loveforever said:
I had read many people accused michael of "stealing" the song 'whatever happens', and took the song writing credit, that is so ridiculous. The song was composed by Five people, Michael Jackson is the initiator so his name was in the first place. The lyrics/meaning were similar to "don't walk away". The song is so personal, it was so obviously written during his divorce/break up period. After LMP's interview, it's not hard to guess who she was. similarly, "Break of Dawn" is initially written by Dr.Freeze, but Michael turned the song into his personal stories, he changed the song+lyrics so he took the song writing credit.

Teddy Riley's twitter:


Michael always respect talents and gave chances to those young artists, for example, butterflies song writer and producer Andre Harris. He didn't put his name on this 20 something young artist's song, simply because he didn't write it. whoever came out after his death are attention seekers and liars.

Michael Jackson had so many god given talents because he had the humble, grateful, and genuine heart, which apparently most people in today's world lacked. is there anything left Michael Jackson haven't been accused yet?:bugeyed
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Thanks for this post , :flowers:
 
8701girl said:
Who cares if mj wrote a song or didnt, as long as we hear his voice thats all that matters, right?
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I see your point but many fans (myself included) feel that Michael's best songs are the ones he writes and composes alone. Yes there are exceptions like Man In The Mirror and Human Nature but for the most part alot of fans think that Mike's best songs are the one's he writes and composes by himself.

That was one of the things i didn't like about Invincible was that Mike seemed to rely to much on outside songwriters to come in and co-wrote the whole album with him. The only 2 songs that Mike wrote and composed by himself was Speechless and The Lost Children. I feel that the lack of songs written and composed by Michael affected the quality of the album. I don't feel that none of the songs on Invincible can stand up to songs like Who Is It, They Don't Care About Us, Liberian Girl, Smooth Criminal and Will You Be There.

Also for some reason i get exicted when i read the album credits and he read the words ''Written and Composed by Michael Jackson''

That's one thing i would have loved Michael to have done. Write and compose a full album all by himself. The closest we're ever gonna get to that is the Bad album
 
thank you for sharing, i fills me with joy to hear/read this interview, Michael clearly had a 'deep' impact on the people who worked with him. Their stories reveal what otherwise never would have been known. can't thank you enough for sharing!
 
Im kind Of new here, but actual the album Michael has been unciones more is history. It is te album that Michael produced and wrote most of his songs.
 
respect77 said:
On "Break of Dawn" he is credited as a co-writer on Invincible, although only on 2nd place behind Dr Freeze, which might be a sign that his contribution was limited. However I don't believe either that his contribution was zero. Why would be he then credited as co-writer?

Also Dr. Freeze first says the song is as he gave it to Michael, nothing was changed, but then later he says: "Sometimes he recorded the lead vocals, sometimes it was just the chorus or adlib ... He also listened to the different mixes and changed some details in here and there."

This is exactly why he was credited as a co-writer then. And then it's not true he didn't contribute at all.....
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In that same interview, they also mention Michael changed one verse and made changes when he came back to record again. So Michael did re-write the lyrics and the music it seems to me.
 
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