Latest on MJJC

Murray Trial - 3 October - Day 5 - Discussion

alexwithmj said:
Those who have cardiac emergency situation go to emergency room. Even you were having a heart attack while you were in the doctor's office, they would call 911 and sent you to hospital emergency room.
Click to expand...



An untrained person is not going to know the difference between a woman having an heart attack or man having an heart attack. And if you don't know how to read an EKG your never going to know what is going on. If you don't know how to do CPR you have no damn business working in a health care place. Since they were all untrained I am sure none of them have clue how to do CPR. And if that place has a defibrillator you have to be trained on how to use that or you will mess that person and maybe yourself up real bad. So please don't say they would call 911 if someone has a problem just call 911 so much more is involved here
 
Justthefacts said:
An untrained person is not going to know the difference between a woman having an heart attack or man having an heart attack. And if you don't know how to read an EKG your never going to know what is going on. If you don't know how to do CPR you have no damn business working in a health care place. Since they were all untrained I am sure none of them have clue how to do CPR. And if that place has a defibrillator you have to be trained on how to use that or you will mess that person and maybe yourself up real bad. So please don't say they would call 911 if someone has a problem just call 911 so much more is involved here
Click to expand...

Thank you. Good. I hope that's now the end of that particular discussion? Murray was NOT ok, in having untrained people staffing his clinic. Not at ALL. That bolsters the impression of his incompetence, even MORE.

Testimony today was excellent. The phone company people, and the records, established the credibility of the records, and what can be determined by those records. The defense tried to say, "But, you don't know if the call was ANSWERED?" The prosecution was countering with people who said they "called or were called by Murray on June 25." So that was fine. That man certainly did seem to be BUSY, on the last day of Michael's life? We do recall an early statement of his about why he didn't call 911, that NO PHONES were working? Uhm, kay?

The medical testimony was superb. Precise, and professional. Too bad we can't see the jury, but the badgering of witnesses, putting words in their mouths that they did not say, surely must be pissing them off as much as it pisses US off?

Murray has lied about almost EVERYTHING, including "not knowing the time." There are photos and videos of him entering the hospital wearing a WRISTWATCH. He had a cell-phone. Maybe TWO? He gave two different versions of Michael's time of arrest and when he noticed, where he was, just at the HOSPITAL. God only know how many OTHER versions he gave?

I'm not at all worried about "reasonable doubt." Reasonable doubt doesn't mean about knowing every detail, but OVERALL negligence, to a criminal extent. Already, that has been proven, I would expect.

Uhm, guys? Did it seem to anyone else that Flanagan may have been drunk or otherwise impaired? To me it looked like he was slurring, forgetting, and about to TIP OVER? Better get rid of that bottle of Jack Daniel's in the break-room? I'm just sayin'.
 
he indicates he PURPOSELY did not ask MAW to call 911 becuz he'd have to explain what the emergency was all about, etc. So MURRAY made a conscious and calculated decision NOT to ask anyone to call 911 becuz he was unwilling to offer up information about what was wrong or had gone wrong. That's on him. It's not on anyone else to interpret...especially with him being the doctor it's only natural that if it were a serious emergency HE'D have been the 1st person to make the 911 call.
Click to expand...

OMG THAT THAT GRRRR :rant:
 
wendy2004 said:
I noticed something earlier today when Flanagan was cross-examining Cooper. He brought up the 10:40am timeline in regards to one of his hypotheticals about the half-life of lorazepam or propofol and it dawned on me...is the defense trying to backtrack on their timeline again? I was like wtf when he thew out 10:40 for his hypothetical instead of the one his client currently says.

It seems they are STILL trying to shift their defense around the evidence and wherever a theory fits with the evidence they will eventually accept as Murray's story. That's not the way the truth works.

Also, this weekend I was going over a lot of the testimonies I missed and realized Murray's attempt to pin NOT calling 911 on anyone is futile. In his interview (played during opening statements) he indicates he PURPOSELY did not ask MAW to call 911 becuz he'd have to explain what the emergency was all about, etc. So MURRAY made a conscious and calculated decision NOT to ask anyone to call 911 becuz he was unwilling to offer up information about what was wrong or had gone wrong. That's on him. It's not on anyone else to interpret...especially with him being the doctor it's only natural that if it were a serious emergency HE'D have been the 1st person to make the 911 call.

This could easily also apply to why de didn't tell anyone about propofol. Just like he didn't want to have to explain to anyone WHY they needed to call 911, it's reasonable to presume he purposely withheld the info about propofol and other drugs cuz he would have to EXPLAIN WTH he was doing administering that mess in MJ's room without adequate equipment in place. So all the blame shifting is a waste of time by his defense.

All the delays and all the omissions are Murray's...purposely. It wasn't cuz he was flustered or too busy with his patient that he didn't call 911. It was becuz he didn't want to have to explain what it was all about. His own words...and they are going to come back to bite him in the arse. No one has to guess why he didn't call or tell anyone else to call. Murray gives the reason. In short, Michael didn't get the help he needed in sufficient time cuz this doctor didn't want to have to explain what it was all about. Sad.
Click to expand...

I think you are absolutely spot on with this. MJ died and it was totally Conrad Murray's fault that (1) it happened and (2) the possibility for a reverse out of the situation was destroyed
 
myosotis said:
Here is the pic:


http://[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/trialmurrayarrivingatuc.jpg/][/URL]
Click to expand...

Who wants to send this to the judge so he can end this farce and waste of tax payers money?
murrayswatch-1.jpg
yellow arrow points to Murray's watch.
 
No it would be better to send it to mr walgren
 
Autumn II said:
Uhm, guys? Did it seem to anyone else that Flanagan may have been drunk or otherwise impaired? To me it looked like he was slurring, forgetting, and about to TIP OVER? Better get rid of that bottle of Jack Daniel's in the break-room? I'm just sayin'.
Click to expand...
Then again, if you had to defend this man, wouldn't you drink?
 
Justthefacts said:
An untrained person is not going to know the difference between a woman having an heart attack or man having an heart attack. And if you don't know how to read an EKG your never going to know what is going on. If you don't know how to do CPR you have no damn business working in a health care place. Since they were all untrained I am sure none of them have clue how to do CPR. And if that place has a defibrillator you have to be trained on how to use that or you will mess that person and maybe yourself up real bad. So please don't say they would call 911 if someone has a problem just call 911 so much more is involved here
Click to expand...

Shut the place down. Fine the owner of $$$$$$ and rid him of his medical license and throw him in jail.
 
djbaby said:
I think you are absolutely spot on with this. MJ died and it was totally Conrad Murray's fault that (1) it happened and (2) the possibility for a reverse out of the situation was destroyed
Click to expand...

He pretends that the time it would have taken him to explain things would've been a waste. The time it takes to say "Michael's not breathing...call 911" is nothing when compared to waiting for MAW's phone to ring....no one answering and having to leave an 8 second voicemail for a call back. It means nothing when running down the stairs to the chef and saying get help, get Prince, get Security.

Michael's not breathing. Call 911.
 
RedMaryFlint said:
Then again, if you had to defend this man, wouldn't you drink?
Click to expand...

Good one, but, actually, NO? I DO have a sense of integrity, and although I'm a "professional" person, if I were a lawyer, my karmic future would be too important to me to defend a guilty man, who killed a GOOD man. So, would I drink? Sure, but not for THAT. I would not be involved in promoting EVIL, in any way, shape, or form.

But, as a "professional person," I'm (among other things) an anthropologist, with an expertise in body-language. Has anyone noticed the body-language between Murray, and lawyers? He does not LOOK at them, nor them, at him. He sits there, glowering, with NO relationship between himself and his attorneys. They never exchange glances, or kind words, or a touch. They are doing a JOB, but do not respect him. Just watch this, the next time court is in session?
 
You know what I am confused about? When Murray came into the room and saw Michael not breathing according to to him he used that stuff I can't spell or pronounce to reverse the effects of benzos. How did he know to do that the last drug he said he gave Michael was Propofol not a benzo and the last time he said he gave a benzo was seven in the morning. So am I missing something?
 
Justthefacts said:
You know what I am confused about? When Murray came into the room and saw Michael not breathing according to to him he used that stuff I can't spell or pronounce to reverse the effects of benzos. How did he know to do that the last drug he said he gave Michael was Propofol not a benzo and the last time he said he gave a benzo was seven in the morning. So am I missing something?
Click to expand...

You are not "missing anything." Given the testimony so far, I'm now thinking this was INTENTIONAL, on Murray's part? OMG, but . nobody, NO doctor, can make that many mistakes? Did Michael FIRE him that night, and he snapped? We may never know, but that now seems POSSIBLE!
 
I know I sound like a stuck record saying this, but I strongly believe that we need to let the prosecution do their job. Let us not presume to know better or be able to do better. Sometimes as fans we can become overzealous and over step our bounds. We do not know how the prosecution plans to tie things together.

I say blow up that pic and add an appropriately stinging caption and circulate on the web!

Let us the prosecution do battle in court. Let us do battle in the court of public opinion!!
 
Justthefacts said:
You know what I am confused about? When Murray came into the room and saw Michael not breathing according to to him he used that stuff I can't spell or pronounce to reverse the effects of benzos. How did he know to do that the last drug he said he gave Michael was Propofol not a benzo and the last time he said he gave a benzo was seven in the morning. So am I missing something?
Click to expand...

I think *I* must have missed something? Are you saying that Murray has stated at some point that he gave MJ Flumanezil to counteract Benzos? (Lorazepam) I don't recall reading this at all. I just recall that in the Autopsy Documents that in the list of drugs found at the house, an empty vial of Flumanezil was found.
 
TheChosenOne said:
I know I sound like a stuck record saying this, but I strongly believe that we need to let the prosecution do their job. Let us not presume to know better or be able to do better. Sometimes as fans we can become overzealous and over step our bounds. We do not know how the prosecution plans to tie things together.

I say blow up that pic and add an appropriately stinging caption and circulate on the web!

Let us the prosecution do battle in court. Let us do battle in the court of public opinion!!
Click to expand...

The pic is already making the rounds. I saw it in a retweeted RETWEET via an NBC person. It'll probably make official news tomorrow if someone can authenticate it against videotape.
 
TheChosenOne said:
I know I sound like a stuck record saying this, but I strongly believe that we need to let the prosecution do their job. Let us not presume to know better or be able to do better. Sometimes as fans we can become overzealous and over step our bounds. We do not know how the prosecution plans to tie things together.

I say blow up that pic and add an appropriately stinging caption and circulate on the web!

Let us the prosecution do battle in court. Let us do battle in the court of public opinion!!
Click to expand...

I agree, that the court of public opinion can bear weight. But, I highly doubt that the prosecution is influenced by US in the slightest way, given that they are involved totally with the trial, or that we are in any respect, shape, or form, "interfering?" I think they are doing a GREAT job, so far, but also, no CHANGE for social justice, EVER happened, without caring and being ACTIVE, according to consciences.

The fact is, that fans probably, actually, know MORE than almost anyone about Michael, and that going public, can only help. I'm not worried in the slightest, that we are interfering in any way with the "prosecution doing its job." They are professionals, and so far, are doing the very best that they can.

During Michael's trial, this board was incredibly active and I DO think we made a difference.

I am not worried about "protocol," as much as I am passionate about justice. Whatever we can do, maybe only as individuals, we SHOULD do. And if we do know better and do nothing? Then WE are part of the problem. The lawyers have their part to play, but never discount the value of people, in numbers, doing the best they can do, in terms of conscience. . . .
 
Last edited:
Sorry for double post, but just to be CLEAR? There are times when "overstepping boundaries" is the ONLY thing that works, and I'll say that "protocol" and "rule following" has never mattered to me that much, and positive, social change, has never happened WITHOUT "overstepping." So I'd say, within individual conscience, about what you KNOW is right, should direct your actions. We are either part of the problem, or part of the solution. Without "overstepping boundaries," some people would still be still sitting in the back-of-the bus, and India would still be a British colony.

End of rant. Just follow your conscience?
 
lemon662 said:
I think *I* must have missed something? Are you saying that Murray has stated at some point that he gave MJ Flumanezil to counteract Benzos? (Lorazepam) I don't recall reading this at all. I just recall that in the Autopsy Documents that in the list of drugs found at the house, an empty vial of Flumanezil was found.
Click to expand...

I think it was in one of Murray's interviews to polices.
 
Just read over the last half an hour from Day 5 yesterday that I missed and it sounds like the day finished off well! Another Fantastic day for the Prosecution. :happy:

Justice For Michael :angel:
 
Last edited:
I've abandoned my scoring system as a complete whitewash to the prosecution lol
 
Has anyone got screenshots of the phone records to hand. just want to comfirn the two simultanious calls he made around 10.30
 
too bad I missed the last hour yesterday.
I cant believe what I just read :blink: he had untrained people in his office?!
Poor Michael :cry: I wish he would have never met this murderer :(
 
Regarding. the media report about there not been any of mj prints on the diprivan bottles. how much diprivan could the syringes hold? was one full one enough considering the amount found in mj? wasnt there a report saying there was 200mg in mj?
 
Regarding. the media report about there not been any of mj prints on the diprivan bottles. how much diprivan could the syringes hold? was one full one enough considering the amount found in mj? wasnt there a report saying there was 200mg in mj?​
Click to expand...

2 syringes , each 100mg max .

the number 200 was an estamation on my part based on the syringes and the urine concentration. During the preliminary hearing Flanagn repeated the number" 150 mg" many many times.

it's like the defence is anticipating what the experts would conclud and trying to use it in their favor. A good example would be what happened re lorazepam yesterday.

I was really upset . Why Walgren did not ask the doctor on redirect "what do you think of a doctor who gives his patient 20mg of lorazepam and on top of that propofol ?" . Have you seen the doctor's reaction to "20mg" ? she was super surprised . 20 MG WHAT?

Hopefully when the toxocologist takes the stand they will stress these points,
 
200mg was mentioned in a media report some person claiming to rep the d.a at the court house. think it might have been on friday? i think that was the first time a figure was mentioned?so for mj to self inject without putting prints on the bottles he would have had to find two syringes that were pretty much full already and injected one after the other. is that even medically possible. you would be knocked out after the first one?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top