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Murray Trial - 3 October - Day 5 - Discussion

riviera1992 said:
Who wants to send this to the judge so he can end this farce and waste of tax payers money?
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yellow arrow points to Murray's watch.
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:mat:
 
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Originally Posted by Justthefacts
You know what I am confused about? When Murray came into the room and saw Michael not breathing according to to him he used that stuff I can't spell or pronounce to reverse the effects of benzos. How did he know to do that the last drug he said he gave Michael was Propofol not a benzo and the last time he said he gave a benzo was seven in the morning. So am I missing something?
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we know he lied about lorazepam from the very beginning, remembr when we here discussed the lorazepam pill bottle found in MJ's bathroom not with the other meds on his nightstand? and how much it was discussed here why he was mentioning it to everyone ? why he claimed lorazepam was given at 2 and 5 . It was so obvious from his words that he knew the role lorazepam played in MJ's death and he from the very first minute was planning to make everything look like MJ self overdosed on lorazepam hoping propofol won't be even detected. Yesterday we got a glimpse of Murray's insane way of making MJ sleep . The DA needs to talk about it , he needs to address this issue .


I think *I* must have missed something? Are you saying that Murray has stated at some point that he gave MJ Flumanezil to counteract Benzos? (Lorazepam) I don't recall reading this at all. I just recall that in the Autopsy Documents that in the list of drugs found at the house, an empty vial of Flumanezil was found.
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yes he told someone at the hospital he gave 2mg of flumazenil . It's mentioned in the search warrant.


200mg was mentioned in a media report some person claiming to rep the d.a at the court house. think it might have been on friday? i think that was the first time a figure was mentioned?
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Really, finally.
 
so for mj to self inject without putting prints on the bottles he would have had to find two syringes that were pretty much full already and injected one after the other. is that even medically possible. you would be knocked out after the first one?
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the concentration of propofol found in MJ's blood could have been reached by ONE bolus injection . Propofol Blood Concentration : 4.5 ug/ml
"After a bolus injection consciousness is lost in patients at propofol blood concentrations of 1.3 - 6.8 ug/ml . Conscious was regained after 8 to 10 mintues at concentrations of 1- 2.5 ug/ml "
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In total he received 200mg, that what was in his body, in his system
 
I'm thinking about yesterday's testimony and sorry if it was already discussed

Dr. Nguyen said that Propofol wound't cause slurred speech so I'm wondering about that May 10th recording. I mean what do we think about it? What caused slurred speech?
 
obviously lorazepam , I mentioned it once that recording was made public , that was the effect on benzos not propofol .

BOXES of lorazepam , midazolam and flumazenil were bought on April 30
 
ivy said:
I'm thinking about yesterday's testimony and sorry if it was already discussed

Dr. Nguyen said that Propofol wound't cause slurred speech so I'm wondering about that May 10th recording. I mean what do we think about it? What caused slurred speech?
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Walgren said "an unknown substance" in his opening statement. If propofol doesn't do that, then benzos maybe ?
 
and can somebody tell me the difference between benzos and propofol? and danger levels?
 
Soundmind said:
the concentration of propofol found in MJ's blood could have been reached by ONE bolus injection . Propofol Blood Concentration : 4.5 ug/mlIn total he received 200mg, that what was in his body, in his system
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so one FULL syringe?
 
ivy said:
I'm thinking about yesterday's testimony and sorry if it was already discussed

Dr. Nguyen said that Propofol wound't cause slurred speech so I'm wondering about that May 10th recording. I mean what do we think about it? What caused slurred speech?
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Benzos, most likely. Another question would be WHY Murray would make such a recording? To sell to a tabloid? Clearly he wasn't "weaning" Michael off anything, because he continued to make his large-scale purchases of medications. Did Michael ever KNOW he'd been recorded, in that condition, I wonder? (I hope NOT.)
 
Soundmind said:
the concentration of propofol found in MJ's blood could have been reached by ONE bolus injection . Propofol Blood Concentration : 4.5 ug/ml


In total he received 200mg, that what was in his body, in his system
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The 200mg was mentioned much earlier by the media or at least the ones from TruTv. They said the amount of Propofol was like someone empty two big bottles, the 100mg, into his body at once. Which is why Michael had to inject allot at once if the defense goes into that direction.
 
@ elusive
something else liver concentrtion was 6ug/ml is not consistent with two bolus injections in a relatively small time frame.

so one FULL syringe?
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exactly one full RAPID syringe.

and can somebody tell me the difference between benzos and propofol? and danger levels?
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benzos build tolerance relatively quickly especially lorazepam , temazepam and midazolam (three were given by murray to MJ) . They don't work with everyone . the larger the dose the more adverse effects to suffer from . They cause halluciations, suicidal thoughts , depression .....etc THE LAST THING A DANCER NEEDS in my opinion and based on my experience with my moher is lorazepam .


Propfol if given properly is very safe , great drug , but if it's administered without monitoring and proper equipment to revive even an average dose could kill you . Its effect rapid , within an hour it would have disappeared from your blood and has no effects whatsoever on your body., so what Kenny observed on June 19 certainly was not caused by propofol . PERFECT FOR MJ .

Was MJ even aware sedation was maintaned using lorazepam ? Nope in my opinion .

what happened that day was happening everynight Murray "helped" MJ sleep. What I'm interested in knowing is what was different on June 23rd and 24th ?

I pray to God they did a hair toxicology examination.


The 200mg was mentioned much earlier by the media or at least the ones from TruTv. They said the amount of Propofol was like someone empty two big bottles, the 100mg, into his body at once. Which is why Michael had to inject allot at once if the defense goes into that direction.
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200mg are small vials not big. The media has always been talking about MJ swimining in propofol , even his eyes had propofol . They were talking about the 1000mg vial which Alvares saw , of course who needed to read the toxicology report ? why even bother ?
 
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Ramona122003 said:
The 200mg was mentioned much earlier by the media or at least the ones from TruTv. They said the amount of Propofol was like someone empty two big bottles, the 100mg, into his body at once. Which is why Michael had to inject allot at once if the defense goes into that direction.
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The defense about "quantity given" can surely go both ways? I think the defense is going to say Michael self-injected. But, it could also be asserted (by prosecution) that Murray, himself, gave the bolus. My point is, just because it may be proven that a large dose was injected, surely does not automatically mean that MICHAEL was the one who injected it!
 
Why did Murray let all those syringes, vials and stuff laying about, free for anyone to use as he went potty?
 
Soundmind said:
@ elusive
something else liver concentrtion was 6ug/ml is not consistent with two bolus injections in a relatively small time frame.


exactly one full RAPID syringe.



benzos build tolerance relatively quickly especially lorazepam , temazepam and midazolam (three were given by murray to MJ) . They don't work with everyone . the larger the dose the more adverse effects to suffer from . They cause halluciations, suicidal thoughts , depression .....etc THE LAST THING A DANCER NEEDS in my opinion and based on my experience with my moher is lorazepam .


Propfol if given properly is very safe , great drug , but if it's administered without monitoring and proper equipment to revive even an average dose could kill you . Its effect rapid , within an hour it would have disappeared from your blood and has no effects whatsoever on your body., so what Kenny observed on June 19 certainly was not caused by propofol . PERFECT FOR MJ .

Was MJ even aware sedation was maintaned using lorazepam ? Nope in my opinion .

what happened that day was happening everynight Murray "helped" MJ sleep. What I'm interested in knowing is what was different on June 23rd and 24th ?

I pray to God they did a hair toxicology examination.




200mg are small vials not big. The media has always been talking about MJ swimining in propofol , even his eyes had propofol . They were talking about the 1000mg vial which Alvares saw , of course who needed to read the toxicology report ? why even bother ?
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I got the number wrong, but they never used the term 'swimming'. They just said he had allot more than the number Murray admitted to and they said that even if Michael pumped another 25mg of propofol into himself, it wouldn't match the number found in the report. They also made it clear that the 25mg is Murray's said and the defense has no way to confirm that number and it hinges completely on Murray's word. Given Murray's record of lying, they have no reason to believe him, especially since he gave this information in a police interview with a lawyer and not at the hospital. As the lawyers rightly pointed out, if Murray suspected that Michael gave himself more than he left him with, why wasn't he forthcoming with that information from the beginning?
 
Pimboli said:
Why did Murray let all those syringes, vials and stuff laying about, free for anyone to use as he went potty?
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well, he did not leave anything he gave to MJ in that room , the bottles found there were prescribed by other doctors.

As for the 100mg/10ml vial he probably did not even notice , I believe the detective found it somewhere on the floor. One of the syringes had a depressed plunger and was inserted into the short tubing used to inject the drugs probably he forgot about it , the second one he grabbed from the nightstand and gave it to one of the praramedics to use, the paramedic I'm talking about testified during the preliminary haring but till now has not been been called to the stand . They later found this syringe at the foot of MJ's bed . It's mistakenly refered to as "broken" in fact the needle was disattached from the plastic part and was not really broken.
 
I thought only two medics testifyed at the prelim. thats what i have listed. the same two who testifyed last week
 
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Sorry i ment screen shots for both phones cause i think it was said he was on both phones at the same time at one point. thats what it shows on the records i have saved on my comp those calls were sometime after 10.30he was talking to ruggles at 10 something. and on the phone records of the other company he was talking to someone else during the same timeframe
 
I thought only two medics testifyed at the prelim. thats what i have listed. the same two who testifyed last week
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do you remember the special needles one of the paramedics testified to observing at the scene , murray gave him one and he thought why would he use such needles?
 
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