No Tours In U.S.

[somewhereinthedark]

Im not making anything up

Order the book Papa Joe's Boys and the section about Michael towards the end of the book, he started saying back in 1981 that he would tour no more after the Triumph Tour. It's right there in that book

Michael puts that out there to build up anticipation down the road about whether or not he will ever tour again. He said that after the Victory Tour, the Bad Tour, the Dangerous Tour, and the History Tour

I didn't say he was never goinf to tour again after 1989, I said he was never going to America, North America again after 89

I don't believe that. The allegations/trial hindered Michael from touring. I have no doubt at all if Michael had toured the U.S. Again, he would have set records, just like he did with the Bad tour. I also believe that when he brought the This Is It tour (yes, I believe that he would have eventually brought it here) to America, it would have been a total sell-out. Even with all of the crap thrown at him, no new album to promote, Michael did what no other artist in history has done or will ever do, HE SOLD OUT 50 SHOWS in ONE CITY. According to those connected to the tour, there were enough tickets sold , to sell out ANOTHER 50 shows.
When he came to my city during the Bad tour, he sold out 3 shows and could have easily sold out another 3 or 4 shows. I've never seen anything like it before in my life. Throngs of people showed up outside of the arena HOPING that more tickets would be released. When they came out and announced that no more tickets would be sold, Grown MEN and women were crying. This was on the night of the third show and it had been rumored that more tickets would be released and people actually showed up at the arena and were waiting outside. Things are much different now and there is no way that people would be allowed to gather outside of an arena in that manner. Michael NEVER lost his drawing power.

 

[MAQ]

I don't believe that. The allegations/trial hindered Michael from touring. I have no doubt at all if Michael had toured the U.S. Again, he would have set records, just like he did with the Bad tour. I also believe that when he brought the This Is It tour (yes, I believe that he would have eventually brought it here) to America, it would have been a total sell-out. Even with all of the crap thrown at him, no new album to promote, Michael did what no other artist in history has done or will ever do, HE SOLD OUT 50 SHOWS in ONE CITY. According to those connected to the tour, there were enough tickets sold , to sell out ANOTHER 50 shows.
When he came to my city during the Bad tour, he sold out 3 shows and could have easily sold out another 3 or 4 shows. I've never seen anything like it before in my life. Throngs of people showed up outside of the arena HOPING that more tickets would be released. When they came out and announced that no more tickets would be sold, Grown MEN and women were crying. This was on the night of the third show and it had been rumored that more tickets would be released and people actually showed up at the arena and were waiting outside. Things are much different now and there is no way that people would be allowed to gather outside of an arena in that manner. Michael NEVER lost his drawing power.

Imagine what would've happened if he went on a world tour in 2009. That would've sure broken many records. 1 million tickets sold in around 5 hours. Huge!

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

I don't believe that. The allegations/trial hindered Michael from touring. I have no doubt at all if Michael had toured the U.S. Again, he would have set records, just like he did with the Bad tour. I also believe that when he brought the This Is It tour (yes, I believe that he would have eventually brought it here) to America, it would have been a total sell-out. Even with all of the crap thrown at him, no new album to promote, Michael did what no other artist in history has done or will ever do, HE SOLD OUT 50 SHOWS in ONE CITY. According to those connected to the tour, there were enough tickets sold , to sell out ANOTHER 50 shows.
When he came to my city during the Bad tour, he sold out 3 shows and could have easily sold out another 3 or 4 shows. I've never seen anything like it before in my life. Throngs of people showed up outside of the arena HOPING that more tickets would be released. When they came out and announced that no more tickets would be sold, Grown MEN and women were crying. This was on the night of the third show and it had been rumored that more tickets would be released and people actually showed up at the arena and were waiting outside. Things are much different now and there is no way that people would be allowed to gather outside of an arena in that manner. Michael NEVER lost his drawing power.

I never nowhere in there said that he couldn't sell out shows any longer

I said he had no plans of touring North America again after Bad because he did not tour again in the United States mainland after Bad because Bad did not meet his expectations regarding actual record sales.......

it's one thing to put out there you are planning to do something, it's another matter in actually doing it.....

 

[HIStoric]

I never nowhere in there said that he couldn't sell out shows any longer

I said he had no plans of touring North America again after Bad because he did not tour again in the United States mainland after Bad because Bad did not meet his expectations regarding actual record sales.......

it's one thing to put out there you are planning to do something, it's another matter in actually doing it.....

Haha that literally makes no sense. Bad sold 2-3x as much copies in America as it did in the second best selling region in the world (which I think was the UK). Why would he refuse to tour to his (then) biggest audience? Never mind the fact that at the time it was the second best selling album in history.

Nothing you're saying adds up. Besides, Michael was never happy with his numbers from the Bad era onwards man. I highly doubt he'd stop touring this one country (which I repeat, by FAR the biggest audience for him at the time) all because the actual sales didn't meet his ridiculously high expectations.

 

[HIStory]

I didn't say he was never goinf to tour again after 1989, I said he was never going to America, North America again after 89

Yeah, which you could predict from him showing the victory sign...

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

Yeah, which you could predict from him showing the victory sign...

not the sign itself, but what to the sign at that moment.......as a follower of his entire solo career, at that moment, I knew he was never going to tour North America ever again

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

Haha that literally makes no sense. Bad sold 2-3x as much copies in America as it did in the second best selling region in the world (which I think was the UK). Why would he refuse to tour to his (then) biggest audience? Never mind the fact that at the time it was the second best selling album in history.

Nothing you're saying adds up. Besides, Michael was never happy with his numbers from the Bad era onwards man. I highly doubt he'd stop touring this one country (which I repeat, by FAR the biggest audience for him at the time) all because the actual sales didn't meet his ridiculously high expectations.

Because Bad sold 17-18 millions copies less in the U.S. than its predecessor and I'm sure he was very surprised by that, then he made other changes, switching producers, firing managers, if Bad had met his expectations, particularly in the states, those things would have never happened

 

[barbee0715]

Im not making anything up

Order the book Papa Joe's Boys and the section about Michael towards the end of the book, he started saying back in 1981 that he would tour no more after the Triumph Tour. It's right there in that book

Michael puts that out there to build up anticipation down the road about whether or not he will ever tour again. He said that after the Victory Tour, the Bad Tour, the Dangerous Tour, and the History Tour

I didn't say he was never goinf to tour again after 1989, I said he was never going to America, North America again after 89

OK-we know he said it after Victory since he was leaving the group meaning no more tours for them-and we know he said it after BAD-since he meant no more tours, period. It was on to film. Dangerous Tour was prefaced with a speech that went like "THE ONLY REASON I'M GOING BACK ON TOUR IS THE HEAL THE WORLD FOUNDATION."

So I pulled up "Papa Joe's Boys" last night and read the first chapter and the last 3-good read, actually-written by Leonard Pitts, Jr. whose columns I like and he won a Pulitzer Prize. This is back when he was writing strictly about the music world-and hadn't gone on to social and political stuff. This book is full of quotes from interviews both on TV and in print-so it's taking their own words (much like R. Taborrelli's 1991 book, which I like, because he uses actual sources for the book-I wouldn't ever read the later updates-and I gather from comments here that his sources were all disgusting tabloids-rather than music magazines and interviews and the Jacksons' own books).

Anyway, the only thing I could find was one little paragraph that said that "during Triumph, Michael was grumbling about the grueling tour process (which if I remember correctly, he lost his voice and Marlon had to fill in for him in some spots) but his grumbling was short lived, since right after, he announced they were going on tour again-and bringing Jermaine."

Oddly enough, it's about the only thing in the chapters I read that did not give an interview source and he also got it wrong since there were years between Triumph in 81 and finally doing Victory in 84. So no reference to Michael saying "we're never touring again" in order to build up anticipation.

Is there another source???

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

OK-we know he said it after Victory since he was leaving the group meaning no more tours for them-and we know he said it after BAD-since he meant no more tours, period. It was on to film. Dangerous Tour was prefaced with a speech that went like "THE ONLY REASON I'M GOING BACK ON TOUR IS THE HEAL THE WORLD FOUNDATION."

So I pulled up "Papa Joe's Boys" last night and read the first chapter and the last 3-good read, actually-written by Leonard Pitts, Jr. whose columns I like and he won a Pulitzer Prize. This is back when he was writing strictly about the music world-and hadn't gone on to social and political stuff. This book is full of quotes from interviews both on TV and in print-so it's taking their own words (much like R. Taborrelli's 1991 book, which I like, because he uses actual sources for the book-I wouldn't ever read the later updates-and I gather from comments here that his sources were all disgusting tabloids-rather than music magazines and interviews and the Jacksons' own books).

Anyway, the only thing I could find was one little paragraph that said that "during Triumph, Michael was grumbling about the grueling tour process (which if I remember correctly, he lost his voice and Marlon had to fill in for him in some spots) but his grumbling was short lived, since right after, he announced they were going on tour again-and bringing Jermaine."

Oddly enough, it's about the only thing in the chapters I read that did not give an interview source and he also got it wrong since there were years between Triumph in 81 and finally doing Victory in 84. So no reference to Michael saying "we're never touring again" in order to build up anticipation.

Is there another source???

I dont see why this is such a debate, there's nothing he said during the private home movies in 2003 that was any different that what he said about touring im 1981

Even when he said he wasnt going to tour ever again, u could tell he was just saying that to build up anticipation to see him perform live again

He's not the first entertainer to do that and wont be the last

 

[barbee0715]

^^ok. I'll let it go. I know Michael didn't like to tour. And I'm sorry he had to tour at all after Bad.

And by the way, thanks for mentioning this book. I'm enjoying it and will finish it tonight.

 

[analogue]

^^ok. I'll let it go. I know Michael didn't like to tour. And I'm sorry he had to tour at all after Bad.

And by the way, thanks for mentioning this book. I'm enjoying it and will finish it tonight.

What are you talking about?! Michael LOVED to tour!

 

[somewhereinthedark]

Exactly my sentiments.

Yes, Bringing Brighter Days sounds like one of those posters on another board whose main goal is to diminish anything about Michael; or to slyly creep in a negative statement under the guise of being a so-called "objective fan". Scorp, is this you?

 

[Dianne]

If it was so clear that Michael wouldn't tour the US after Bad anymore (and only the US) does that mean he had that US leg for Dangerous tour just for ish and giggles? He always knew it wouldn't happen? And those allegations and health stuff was actually in his favor since it would give a good excuse for public?

Is that what is being said in here? Because that's what it boils down to if I try to make sense of any of it.

 

[HIStory]

Anyway, the only thing I could find was one little paragraph that said that "during Triumph, Michael was grumbling about the grueling tour process (which if I remember correctly, he lost his voice and Marlon had to fill in for him in some spots) but his grumbling was short lived, since right after, he announced they were going on tour again-and bringing Jermaine."

So basically what BBD said is not in the book. Good to know.

I dont see why this is such a debate, there's nothing he said during the private home movies in 2003 that was any different that what he said about touring im 1981

Even when he said he wasnt going to tour ever again, u could tell he was just saying that to build up anticipation to see him perform live again

He's not the first entertainer to do that and wont be the last

No, Michael saying in 2003 that he did not like to tour is not at all the same thing as what you claimed, which was this:

He even said as early as the Triumph Tour he didnt want to tour anymore

Someone saying he finds touring grueling is not the same as saying he would not tour any more.

What you do is accusing Michael of saying these things only to build anticpiation. For that theory to work in relation of the Triumph Tour Michael should have said it publicly during the Triumph tour that he would not tour any more. I have never heard or read any such thing. What you reference simply seems to be a sentiment he expressed about finding touring grueling not a statement for PR about not wanting to tour any more.

Considering what we know now about the hell he really went through touring (the insomnia getting worse etc.) I do not know why it's so difficult to accept that he probably really meant it when he started to say from the Bad Tour on that he did not want to tour any more and it wasn't necessarily just for PR and to build anticipation.

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

Yes, Bringing Brighter Days sounds like one of those posters on another board whose main goal is to diminish anything about Michael; or to slyly creep in a negative statement under the guise of being a so-called "objective fan". Scorp, is this you?

Who is trying to diminish anything about Michael. History knows what he achieved. Thats never been a debate on that.

Just because someone mentions how his career played out regarding touring and the fact that he always said he was retiring from stage regarding touring, how is that diminishing him.

Plenty of entertainers have said the same thing to stoke up interest. He even said it during the 02 concert press conference when he said that would be his last and final show

I think u may have me mixed up with someone else

 

[AtlasAir]

Brighter, how old are you?

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

Brighter, how old are you?

how old am I?

 

[KOPV]

What the heck are people going back and forth over??? Why is it that people are arguing over something that's FACT..

HIStory tour is the only tour that U.S. dates were not scheduled.. Dangerous U.S. dates were CANCELED.. that means Michael planned to perform the United States.. So he intended to perform.. SO this nonsense of him not planning to tour in the U.S. after Bad is just simply wrong..

If someone is trying to imply that Michael pretended to want to perform in U.S. knowing he would cancel, that's just silly... They would not spend millions of dollars in promotion, reserving venues, and dealing with ticket reimbursements (unhappy fans) just cuz Michael wanted to "pretend" to want to perform in the U.S.

can we end that portion of this debate?

 

[TinnyandOdd]

Plenty of entertainers have said the same thing to stoke up interest. He even said it during the 02 concert press conference when he said that would be his last and final show

To be fair, I do think he was actually truthful when he said This Is It would be his last tour. He was 50 at that point and he wanted to raise his children. I can't remember the direct quotes at the moment, but two that stand out for me were when he mentioned how James Brown (among other black artists) had essentially burned himself out with touring which lead to his death in some form, and how he didn't want to be Moonwalking into his 80's. If he had lived past the TII tour, I think he would have spent the next 5-10 years helping his kids with homework and taking them to school along with writing music, but I don't think he would have ever toured again?

 

[reibish]

That's the same impression I got when I watched the TII press conference. Not to mention he was pretty drunk and you know what they say about drunk words...lol

But back to the point - when TII happened, it wasn't 50 shows at first. It really was only ten. They made that clear. There's a lot of contention over whether there were always 50 on the line and it was just a ruse, or what. I was one of the first people to get tickets during presale and my best guess is that they wrote in contingency just in case demand skyrocketed.

Here's how it really went during that time, something that news outlets weren't reporting very well even at the time. This seems like too much detail but not many people, except those who were buying tickets, really understand how quickly everything blew up.

March 3: announces press conference (with a press conference, lol, A+)
March 5: Official tour announcement for ten shows. Promoters open up michaeljacksonlive.com to enter lottery for presale codes (this crashed within 5 minutes, I'm not even kidding. I was watching on my computer and I INSTANTLY put my name in as soon as they said it, I didn't even wait or listen. I went back a few minutes later and it was already down. I don't know if it was first-come first-served or if it was actually a lottery, but I did get a code )
March...8?: Presale codes go out in email. I'll have to check my archive, I still have all the emails and confirmations and stuff.
March 11: Presale for first TEN shows starts. Ticketmaster crashes. Every single ticket available in presale is gone within just a couple of hours.
March 12: 20 shows added.
March 13: Full public sale. Everything's gone by like 7am my time (sale started at 2am). There were lots of issues and TM was crashing back and forth and it was crazy. That same day, 20 MORE shows were added, and then THEY were gone.

To really understand how quickly those tickets were selling - it came out to about 11 tickets per second. Remember this was before retail mobile technology was really that strong, so this included cash purchases at the O2, Ticketmaster online, and phone sales. It was pure insanity and I don't think I slept for a couple of days. My timeline may be a little fuzzy, but I know that the shows were added very, very quickly, and they would be gone just as fast. Ticketmaster could not keep up with the demand. People were trying to buy tickets for more than one show - IF the purchase went through, then TM would cancel whichever order was the "Better" one (yes, really!) - My tickets were for July 22 in A2, omg - during the public sale I tried to get seats for a March 2010 show and had C1 seats, but then TIcketmaster ate them and I lost it when it crashed again - thank goodness, because with everything that happened, I'd never give up those July seats.

In addition, I've also worked for entertainment venues and have been responsible for performance schedules and stuff. Even for small acts, there is ALWAYS contingency in contracts regarding demand for shows and attendance (both good and bad). I have had to scramble at the last minute to open up the calendar to accommodate someone's extra dates, because we'd sell out so quickly; there was no reason not to fill more shows. This was a tiny venue; but all the same - unless I see the paperwork for myself, I believe Michael only meant to do 10 shows when it started, and it just grew from there, and then laterhe got excited and ambitious again about going on a world tour, once it started coming together and he saw it.

 

[KOPV]

^
I agree with a lot you said.. I don't think anyone knew to what extent of interest TII would receive.. I think the # 10 concerts was a selling grounds to Michael when AEG was trying to get Michael to do it.. Michaels main concern was not to travel. TII was not a "tour".. I think they hoped to go past above 10 but did not discuss it with Michael until the reaction.. Once Michael saw the public interest go crazy, he agreed.. At that point it would be easier to sell the idea of doing the same thing somewhere else..

^ that' one belief of mine, but on the other hand - I do remember hearing/reading that Michael planned to release singles as he performed .. release singles within a 10 show period? That does not add up... So that is another contradictory thought.. if someone planned to release singles as he/she performed that woul likely have to be spread out over time.. Especially if he planned to perform the songs.. Never rehearsed by that time.

Now of course this is all just educated guesses with what we know. We do know that Michael wanted a stationed place to perform before he connected with AEG. He looked in Vegas before 02.. (which also means he even before outside influence was interested in performing in the U.S)..

 

[SoCav]

March 11: Presale for first TEN shows starts. Ticketmaster crashes. Every single ticket available in presale is gone within just a couple of hours.
March 12: 20 shows added.
March 13: Full public sale. Everything's gone by like 7am my time (sale started at 2am). There were lots of issues and TM was crashing back and forth and it was crazy. That same day, 20 MORE shows were added, and then THEY were gone.

Hmm, I think a lot of what you describe actually all happened on March 11! As I remember it the presale was supposed to run from March 11 to March 13. Tickets for the 10 announced shows went on sale early in the morning (7am GMT) on March 11. I was lucky and managed to secure tickets immediately (many people were struggling with constant crashes and the dreaded Ticketmaster queue, as you described). I stayed on the lookout for more tickets and within an hour or so, I noticed they suddenly began adding more shows, which was completely unexpected. Nothing had been announced and I was not even sure whether it was the real deal or just a glitch in the massively dysfunctional system. Of course I did not hesitate and got tickets for another gig. I know for sure that this all happened on the same day, as I remember that morning very well. I think by the end of March 11 they had sold out tickets for 30 shows and then began sending out e-mails that MJ had agreed to do more shows. I do not remember how the sale for the final 20 shows went down (I was over the moon that I had managed to secure tickets and did not really pay attention anymore), but I think they saved 5 shows for the final March 13 morning sale.

Doesn't matter much of course, but your post just brought back the memories! You're absolutely right that it all went down so fast. From nothing but the usual vague rumours we suddenly went to Christian Audigier telling a reporter outside of a night club that MJ was going to fly to London to announce his new tour. That still seemed like it could be rubbish at the time, but then a few days later the press conference actually went down, and a week later we got our tickets. We really didn't see this coming in January or February. It suddenly just exploded.

 

[javiklasicki]

HIStory tour is the only tour that U.S. dates were not scheduled.. Dangerous U.S. dates were CANCELED.. that means Michael planned to perform the United States.. So he intended to perform.. SO this nonsense of him not planning to tour in the U.S. after Bad is just simply wrong..

]

wat, when and where were the Dangerous Tour US dates scheduled? Do you have a source for this other than Wikipedia entries?

For things like the Australian tour deleted dates they are a given: there are fliers, press releases and tv ads, but nothing for USA...

 

[KOPV]

^ Were you not alive during that time? I think everyone around at the time would remember the news reports saying that it is the "REAL" reason he canceled tour dates... Reports all over were saying he went to rehab to dodge coming to the U.S. during the allegations.. They thought it was a big "ditch" move on Michaels part.

 

[smoothvillain]

It seems to me he planned to do the Bad Tour just to do one solo without his brothers (and of course promote the album). Michael had toured everywhere most of his life and was probably tired of it. He expressed disliking it on numerous occasions, but I'm sure one of his goals was to do one himself.

I heard the Dangerous tour was the result of someone talking him into doing it to help charity (as well as promoting the album). I think it explains why he lip-synced most of his songs, especially during the HIStory tour, because he was pretty much done with touring. And the only reason This Is It was going to happen was for him to recoup some of his losses.
I'm sure he didn't want to, but he didn't have many more choices left.

 

[javiklasicki]

^ Were you not alive during that time? I think everyone around at the time would remember the news reports saying that it is the "REAL" reason he canceled tour dates... Reports all over were saying he went to rehab to dodge coming to the U.S. during the allegations.. They thought it was a big "ditch" move on Michaels part.

I forget the time when I asked for actual evidence of dates being planned in the US - not baseless and anecdotal fan myths.

 

[mj_frenzy]

I think it is one of the greatest myths ever that MJ did not want to tour in the USA during the ‘Dangerous’ World Tour.

The fact that he eventually did not tour in the USA could have been attributed to a number of different reasons & not necessarily because of his so-called unwillingness to perform there.

As a matter of fact, MJ was secretly planning to resume the ‘Dangerous’ Tour (USA dates included) right after its abrupt cancellation (at least that was reported extensively during that period). But, some serious reasons (health issues, new album, etc.) determined his decision not to proceed.

 

[javiklasicki]

As a matter of fact, MJ was secretly planning to resume the ‘Dangerous’ Tour (USA dates included) right after its abrupt cancellation (at least that was reported extensively during that period).

Oh really?

 

[barbee0715]

I don't remember a US leg being officially announced (by that, I mean specific dates) although I thought it would happen and it was definitely speculated on by the press, etc. But the tour came to an abrupt end, as we all know, and it was just over.

 

[KOPV]

I forget the time when I asked for actual evidence of dates being planned in the US - not baseless and anecdotal fan myths.

It's pretty apparent that Michael planned to be in the US around that time.. Michael returned to the US Dec 10th and had mandatory legal reasons to be in the United States.. It is documente that there were planned places to perform and that time frame after Mexico would not add up.. He needed to be in the United States.. Simple!