Latest on MJJC

The Estate "has numerous projects in development."

Lassoboy said:
I disagree. But do not want to argue. Different tastes. Old topic. It is more realistic we get to see HWT on dvd and Blu ray and in cinemas than DWT and BWT.
Click to expand...

Why disagree? The tour is known for MJ's lip-syncing throughout the majority of it and that would only be noted by the majority of people who watch
 
The tour that would get the least 'negative' attention would be the BAD tour.. Simply because there is less to pick on.. He did not wear a "thong", he sang live, the least comments about his looks by the general public etc.. That doesn't mean any of them would do bad though
 
barbee0715 said:
Don't we already have Dangerous and Bad on DVD? And a million versions of History on YouTube? I'd prefer the Estate concentrate on Destiny, Triumph and Victory.
Click to expand...

I think people want a different Dangerous concert on DVD since the tour's song setlist changed in later shows. They probably also want a concert that's not cobbled together from other sources like the Bucharest DVD was. As for Bad, I think it's a quality issue (being a VHS rip and not from a better source).

I'm still holding out hope for some kind of documentary or ANY behind-the-scenes stuff from when Dangerous was being made. Studio chatter, in-studio footage, etc.
 
Amaya said:
I think people want a different Dangerous concert on DVD since the tour's song setlist changed in later shows. They probably also want a concert that's not cobbled together from other sources like the Bucharest DVD was. As for Bad, I think it's a quality issue (being a VHS rip and not from a better source).

I'm still holding out hope for some kind of documentary or ANY behind-the-scenes stuff from when Dangerous was being made. Studio chatter, in-studio footage, etc.
Click to expand...

Dangerous tour again? we have Bucharest, Bremen, Buenos Aires and soon we'll have Oslo, we've seen TWYMMF and Dangerous in PRO. nobody wants another DWT DVD. I would like something REALLY cool, like the Triumph tour in HQ just like it was shown on "The One" special, or even better, a DVD box set with every Jacksons tour in HQ - if that's not possible, then I'd like the Bad tour in real HQ. they could release an unseen concert from the first leg if they still havent' found the master tapes from the second leg. if History gets released I'll definitely not buy.
 
englishhooligan said:
Why disagree? The tour is known for MJ's lip-syncing throughout the majority of it and that would only be noted by the majority of people who watch
Click to expand...
I wouldn't go as far as to say the tour is only "known for MJ's lip-synching."
Sure, he lip-synced, but I doubt that's what people except for haters of the tour know it for.:):lol:
ChrisC said:
How can faking a live performance come down to taste?!
Click to expand...
I agree.
I myself prefer live vocals over syncing.
However, I notice that most people who trash HIStory tour (the overwhelming majority of whom are actually IN the MJfandom) will harp on the lip-synching while completely ignoring anything positive about the tour such as Michael's dancing (which IMO is some of if not his very best).

For example, (and I mean this in the best way) look at what you've said here yourself (dismissing HIStory tour as faking live performances).
Yeah he lip synced some of the songs, but him dancing his ass off wasn't fake.:)

All things considered tho, I'm not in a rush to have any MJ concerts in cinemas.
There's a lot of other things I'd like to see done before that.
 
Last edited:
I remember somone spoke to one of the original film crew. They said the BAD tour Leeds show was shot in full 35mm film. So, it all comes down to finding it in the archives. If they do have it then it's a no Brainer to release. MJ DESERVES a high quality release like that. I will say it again, release and the FANS WILL BUY IT.
 
Pink Diamond Princess said:
However, I notice that most people who trash HIStory tour (the overwhelming majority of whom are actually IN the MJfandom) will harp on the lip-synching while completely ignoring anything positive about the tour such as Michael's dancing (which IMO is some of if not his very best).
Click to expand...

ah again this comment. how could anybody say that his dance during the History tour was his best?!

take a look at this ffs.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag5RR2KdYNw#t=5m15s

now imagine that great show released on Blu ray. THAT would be a great release for real MJ fans.
 
Hulkamaniac said:
ah again this comment. how could anybody say that his dance during the History tour was his best?!
Click to expand...
I meant out of his solo tours, and even if I didn't no one can say that his dancing during HIStory tour isn't damn good.
Check out the Billie Jean breakdown for this performance.:)

Not saying at all that anyone (MJfans included) has to love the tour or even like it, but it does gets trashed by MJfans an undeserved amount.
 
Pink Diamond Princess said:
I meant out of his solo tours, and even if I didn't no one can say that his dancing during HIStory tour isn't damn good.

Not saying at all that anyone (MJfans included) has to love the tour or even like it, but it does gets trashed by MJfans an undeserved amount.
Click to expand...

Pink Diamond Princess said:
Yeah he lip synced some of the songs, but him dancing his ass off wasn't fake.:)
Click to expand...

well but if we talk about MJ dancing his ass off AND singing live during his solo concerts....... Bad tour will beat em all anytime. the thing is that we all know that the History tour has been aired several times on TV in HQ and HD, so there is no need for it to be released. that's my point.
 
Pink Diamond Princess said:
I myself prefer live vocals over syncing.
However, I notice that most people who trash HIStory tour (the overwhelming majority of whom are actually IN the MJfandom) will harp on the lip-synching while completely ignoring anything positive about the tour such as Michael's dancing (which IMO is some of if not his very best).
Click to expand...

No it doesn't. HIStory doesn't contain his best dancing (let alone very best), generally his dance moves and routines were more stiff and unpolished. There are outliers but in general, yeah. I remember wanting to find a clip of the New Zealand HIStory tour to share with my friends, but I never really found a clip where his dancing was to the level we'd expect of Michael Jackson, or didn't contain horrendously obvious lip syncing.

Personally I can understand somewhat as he was getting older, but what we saw wasn't of the standard we'd expect from someone considered the greatest performer in the world. We should focus on the shows where its so obvious WHY he is the King! Not one where we have to give 4,792 reasons as to why it's not up to scratch.

If we had to get a HIStory tour, I'd prefer it to be a 'best of', edit together the best performances or moments from the shows.

Also of course most complainers will be MJ Fans, most people who watch the shows after all will be MJ fans. Same when you talk about Invincible - it's not an album played much outside of the MJ fandom.
 
HIStoric said:
No it doesn't. HIStory doesn't contain his best dancing (let alone very best), generally his dance moves and routines were more stiff and unpolished. There are outliers but in general, yeah. I remember wanting to find a clip of the New Zealand HIStory tour to share with my friends, but I never really found a clip where his dancing was to the level we'd expect of Michael Jackson, or didn't contain horrendously obvious lip syncing.

Personally I can understand somewhat as he was getting older, but what we saw wasn't of the standard we'd expect from someone con
sidered the greatest performer in the world. We should focus on the shows where its so obvious WHY he is the King! Not one where we have to give 4,792 reasons as to why it's not up to scratch.
Click to expand...
*Shrugs* This is your subjective opinion and you're entitled to it.
Overall, realistically I still don't think anyone can say his dancing during the tour wasn't at least good.
Nonetheless, I agree that only his best work whether it be shortfilms or performances should be focused on for releases of any kind.
This is why I want the estate to do something for Ghosts so badly.:lol:
If we had to get a HIStory tour, I'd prefer it to be a 'best of', edit together the best performances or moments from the shows.
Click to expand...
Personally I'm not in a rush for anything except for unseen stuff to be released but your idea isn't bad.:lol:

Also of course most complainers will be MJ Fans, most people who watch the shows after all will be MJ fans. Same when you talk about Invincible - it's not an album played much outside of the MJ fandom.
Click to expand...
Michael has a large draw (he's one of the most viewed artist on YT on a weekly basis), so I'm not so sure that most of the people watching HIStory tour videos are MJfans, and I'm definitely sure it wasn't only MJfans that attended the actual tour, yet the overwhelming majority of hate for the tour comes from people that are fans.
As I've said before, I'm not saying that anyone HAS to like/love the tour, what I'm saying is that it gets a lot of undeserved hate (I've seen MJfans act like the tour did or at least should have made Michael be labeled trash as a touring artist/entertainer. A bit extreme don't you think?), and I find that the majority of that hate comes from people that are MJfans.:yes:
 
Last edited:
Pink Diamond Princess said:
Michael has a large draw (he's one of the most viewed artist on YT on a weekly basis), so I'm not so sure that most of the people watching HIStory tour videos are MJfans, and I'm definitely sure it wasn't only MJfans that attended the actual tour, yet the overwhelming majority of hate for the tour comes from people that are fans.
Click to expand...

I believe that when it comes to physical attendance of the tour, there was a good mixture of fans, casual fans and non-fans (as with any artists live show). I think though by this point a good proportion of the views on HIStory tour videos are coming from MJ fans, mainly because how often do one watch live shows for artists they're not a fan of? There'd be views from non-fans but I think with live videos it would be tipped in favour of fans.

I guess it's not really something you can properly measure though with current tools (whether viewers are MJ fans or not, I mean).

Pink Diamond Princess said:
As I've said before, I'm not saying that anyone HAS to like/love the tour, what I'm saying is that it gets a lot of undeserved hate (I've seen MJfans act like the tour did or at least should have made Michael be labeled trash as a touring artist/entertainer. A bit extreme don't you think?), and I find that the majority of that hate comes from people that are MJfans.:yes:
Click to expand...

I wouldn't call it undeserved hate honestly. The complaints I've seen about it are genuine issues to be had with Michael's performances.

When it comes to lipsyncing, I'm fine with it for high performance songs like Smooth Criminal, but it's just really lazy to lipsync when performing songs where he's standing still for the most part. At the very least, give us vocals that aren't so obviously from the studio versions so we have something new to listen to! They don't have to be polished, in fact it'd play better if they weren't! It's so jarring when you hear studio perfect vocals then he switches to live vocals for In The Closet. As for dancing, well, I already explained in my last post.

And who's calling Michael trash? I think many fans agree with me when I say the HIStory tour wasn't as great, but Michael is faaaaaar from trash as a touring artist or entertainer. That's moronic. I wouldn't consider them much of a fan if they said that hahah, you shouldn't lump them in with MJFans.
 
HIStoric said:
I wouldn't call it undeserved hate honestly. The complaints I've seen about it are genuine issues to be had with Michael's performances.
Click to expand...

Hm, I personally think it's undeserved hate (notice I say hate not normal criticism) because Michael actually had medical issues with his lungs, and had been performing darn near since he was born.:)
Also, most of the MJfans I see that talk negatively about HIStory tour do go to extremes.
I suppose you may be lucky to have not seen that type of mess tho.:yes:


Overall, what I really really want the estate to do right now is team up with Just Dance to make an MJ Just Dance game (that would be HUGE), and do something to reintroduce Ghosts to the world.
Ghosts>Thriller (the shortfilm) TBH.
 
Last edited:
Hulkamaniac said:
Dangerous tour again? we have Bucharest, Bremen, Buenos Aires and soon we'll have Oslo, we've seen TWYMMF and Dangerous in PRO. nobody wants another DWT DVD. I would like something REALLY cool, like the Triumph tour in HQ just like it was shown on "The One" special, or even better, a DVD box set with every Jacksons tour in HQ - if that's not possible, then I'd like the Bad tour in real HQ. they could release an unseen concert from the first leg if they still havent' found the master tapes from the second leg. if History gets released I'll definitely not buy.
Click to expand...

I am aware of the other DWT concerts that were leaked; just offering a possible explanation as to why others would want more releases of it. If there's never another official DWT release I can live with that. Triumph Tour would be cool to see, or any of the Jacksons' tours.

More projects I'd like to see: a Captain EO comic (they made one of Figment, his neighbor at Epcot, so why not?) and a port/remake of the Moonwalker game.
 
HIStoric said:
Personally I can understand somewhat as he was getting older, but what we saw wasn't of the standard we'd expect from someone considered the greatest performer in the world. We should focus on the shows where its so obvious WHY he is the King! Not one where we have to give 4,792 reasons as to why it's not up to scratch.
Click to expand...
Personally, I always thought it was the lupus running amuck rather than age. Michael Jackson fans expect a lot-especially after the Bad Tour. I think they should have expanded that scene in the new movie where he tells the bodyguards why he can't do the Las Vegas residency-because of fan expectations. It almost came off like he just didn't want to do it. Or it was beneath him. Fan expectations want Michael Jackson in his prime doing it all.
 
barbee0715 said:
Personally, I always thought it was the lupus running amuck rather than age. Michael Jackson fans expect a lot-especially after the Bad Tour. I think they should have expanded that scene in the new movie where he tells the bodyguards why he can't do the Las Vegas residency-because of fan expectations. It almost came off like he just didn't want to do it. Or it was beneath him. Fan expectations want Michael Jackson in his prime doing it all.
Click to expand...

What exactly did the lupus do? Was it just the singing? It's a difficult situation because even at 50, many people expected to be this incredible, agile dancer when he naturally couldn't be.

I think in that case, he should adapt to the situation and switch things up with his show, dance less routines but sing more. Hell, maybe even learn to play guitar for a couple of songs and give a bit of an unplugged performance... it's not his usual style but it would switch things up! He's known as a dancer too so he could still have small concentrated bursts of phenomenal dancing, and if he was really worried about being visually interesting, he could probably get more theatrical too but even when it's just him singing he can be so great to watch. What comes to mind is a clip where he actually is just singing Earth Song live, and it's just incredible.


Great singers can still be captivating even if they're not dancing around, Michael certainly could be. I mean that's just probably what I would do, maybe I'm being overly hopeful but hey :)
 
HIStoric said:
What exactly did the lupus do? Was it just the singing? It's a difficult situation because even at 50, many people expected to be this incredible, agile dancer when he naturally couldn't be.

I think in that case, he should adapt to the situation and switch things up with his show, dance less routines but sing more. Hell, maybe even learn to play guitar for a couple of songs and give a bit of an unplugged performance... it's not his usual style but it would switch things up! He's known as a dancer too so he could still have small concentrated bursts of phenomenal dancing, and if he was really worried about being visually interesting, he could probably get more theatrical too but even when it's just him singing he can be so great to watch. What comes to mind is a clip where he actually is just singing Earth Song live, and it's just incredible.


Great singers can still be captivating even if they're not dancing around, Michael certainly could be. I mean that's just probably what I would do, maybe I'm being overly hopeful but hey :)
Click to expand...
Lupus can attack you in many ways-lungs for example, your skin, your joints, cause exhaustion, etc.
Personally I'd love Michael to do a show where he just sang because his vocals are incredible and it's his voice I loved the most.
Just him, the mic, the spotlight with the band behind him.

But watching the new Bio, so many people emphasized the dancing. So I understand that he felt the whole package was expected.
 
respect77 said:
No one said MJ was trash as a live artist. No one said he didn't have genuine health issues during HIStory tour. People simply stated the obvious that HIStory tour wasn't his best and it's not the tour that should represent him in the cinemas. HIStory tour is already all over YouTube anyway, so really there's no need of more pushing of the idea that's all that he had to offer as a live artist. I think there is a knee jerk defensiveness of MJ on some fans part when it comes to this topic and that's why they so insist on HIStory tour even though they themselves admit it's not his best.
Click to expand...
Meh, look at the first two comments I replied to, I know that no one said anything as extreme as Michael was trash as a live artist in this specific thread.
Additionally, I was talking about the type of mess I've seen some MJfans (once again, not specifically ones in this thread) say about HIStory tour, and there also seems to be a knee jerk reaction by some MJ fans to trash (not criticize) the tour.
Not saying it was his best tour (in the end what tour is his best is a matter of opinion), just saying that some MJ fans go to extremes when criticizing it to the point that it's longer criticism but hate.
And even though we have a million HIStory tour shows on YouTube so it's not like it's a necessity. There are better arguments for any other of his tours both in terms of performance quality and in terms of how available they have been so far.
Click to expand...
I have no dog in this fight because unless it's new footage I'd rather have other things done before a tour gets released on DVD/in cinemas anyways.:lol:


barbee0715 said:
Personally I'd love Michael to do a show where he just sang because his vocals are incredible and it's his voice I loved the most.
Just him, the mic, the spotlight with the band behind him.
Click to expand...
Wasn't One Night Only supposed to be something like that?
 
Last edited:
barbee0715 said:
Lupus can attack you in many ways-lungs for example, your skin, your joints, cause exhaustion, etc.
Personally I'd love Michael to do a show where he just sang because his vocals are incredible and it's his voice I loved the most.
Just him, the mic, the spotlight with the band behind him.

But watching the new Bio, so many people emphasized the dancing. So I understand that he felt the whole package was expected.
Click to expand...

So because of this, he would've been exhausted much easier then? I see, thanks Barbee!

I too would've loved to see a show of him just singing live with a band behind him :)
 
AlwaysThere said:
Xscape was squandered potential. The remixes were mostly pretty damn solid, but it's clear that the original demos were thrown on there to shut the fans up and neither the Estate nor LA Reid cared about their quality. They're the audio equivalent to the Vision box set -- about as good as standard resolution YouTube videos. (Chicago is in mono, for God's sake.)

Xscape ranks best for me, behind Bad 25 (2nd) and This Is It (1st).
Click to expand...

Agree. In the next album, they should just release the remixes. If the fans aren't happy then 2 Bad about it. The Estate should look to appeal to the younger generation and try to make new fans which won't happen if they release half finished demos.
 
HIStoric said:
So because of this, he would've been exhausted much easier then? I see, thanks Barbee!
Click to expand...

In 2015 I lost someone close to me because of Lupus.
Toward the end they could barely talk because it was so hard/hurt to breathe.
Lung problems/Lupus ain't no joke.

respect77 said:
And the point of going on about this supposed "hate" and supposed "extremes" when no one here is hating and no one here is being extreme?
Click to expand...

One comment I replied to said the tour was only known for lip syncing, and the other said (despite Michael dancing which he couldn't fake) that for HIStory tour Michael faked live performances (not just vocal performances) I wanted to address those particular comments in the hopes of stopping this thread from turning into one in which the tour does get hated on and it turned into a conversation.
Me talking about the tour getting undeserved hate was part of that conversation.
Hardly "going on" about it.
 
Last edited:
respect77 said:
Remixes aren't MJ's music. If I want to listen to Timbaland's music or Pharell's music I will buy their records. When I buy MJ records I want to listen to his music as I am his fan and couldn't care less about Timbaland. Saying if fans aren't happy then "2 Bad about it" is very cynical and won't lead to anything positive.

I have no idea why you are so hostile to MJ's demos to the point of almost talking of them as success blockers. They were not. And AlwaysThere did not talk about that either. The point was that the demos were rushed and were put on the record in low quality. It wasn't a complaint that they were there at all. I can't see how them being there would be negative. The album was available with just the remixes so anyone who was only interested in those could have bought that version with just the remixes. But the fact is that the version with the demos was the version that sold more, so there you have it: you cannot ignore hard core fans' interest, otherwise you will flop massively. The complaint is simply about the quality of the demos, not that we had them. If we didn't I am not sure I would have been even interested. I think to make the demos available is a nice compromise. And no one is forced to buy them who isn't interested. But sales showed that more people were interested in the version with the demos than in the version without the demos.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't really see the issue. If you don't want the demos, cool just buy the cheaper standard edition? For years before Xscape, you'd always see fans complaining about the lack of Michael's demos being released so when the Estate took the route they did with Xscape, it was essentially the best of both worlds. I love hearing the new remixes and I'm always keen to hear Michael's version too, so it's win-win for people like me :D

And honestly I found the demos' quality to be fine for the most part. Chicago is in mono, which is unusual but I feel there might be some unusual technical reason as to why that happened, it's not something the audio engineers would miss. Can't say I even noticed until it was pointed out then, but even then I barely think about it whenever it comes on.
 
Blue Criminal said:
Agree. In the next album, they should just release the remixes. If the fans aren't happy then 2 Bad about it. The Estate should look to appeal to the younger generation and try to make new fans which won't happen if they release half finished demos.
Click to expand...

IDK about this.
Sure new/young fans are very important, but you don't want to piss off the existing fan base either.
I'm a young fan myself and I don't like this idea.
Michael's OG songs made me a fan not any remix.
 
I really wonder what these freaking projects are.. aside Thriller 3D we don't really know much right?
 
The remixes on the Xscape album were wayy better than the originals. It just sounded more up to date and complete.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top