Comment on news about the trial

I have noticed that on CNN, ABC and other online news stories about Murray and the trial, the haters are coming out of the woodwork to comment. And I think there are people being paid to make derogatory comments about Michael and say Murray wasn't at fault. I spent a half hour this morning countering all of the garbage comments on CNN. Please go to the news sites and post your comments. Otherwise the haters will start convincing people that their lies are the truth.

There are sadly a lot of people who do not think Murray was at fault which is unbelievable. No wonder doctors can get away with so much crap.

This will get worse and during the tria the usual suspects will crawl out of the woodword, Geller etc. But just as in 2005 it is what the jury think that is important. It doesn't matter whether he or anyone else tries to excuse Murrey by painting Michael as a helpless addict who begged for the drug, in the end Murrey was the doctor and he was the one that injected a fatal dose of a drug that was innappropriate and disproportionate for insomnia.

And if Michael was addicted to it who was the one who got him addicted? Murrey was. I believe a jury is going to find him guilty and I think the judge will give him the maximum sentence, if for no other reason than to avoid the outcry if he doesn't.

sloride said:

There are sadly a lot of people who do not think Murray was at fault which is unbelievable. No wonder doctors can get away with so much crap.

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I don't think the people believe that Murray wasn't at fault, but they do believe that Michael has to bear some responsiblity when it came to his own health. If you have friends of Michael's like Deepak Chopra and Arnold Klein saying that Michael came to them for certain drugs and when they declined his request, he sought out other ways to get it, then Michael is responsible for putting himself in that situation. You can not ignore that fact.

pamarella said:

I don't think the people believe that Murray wasn't at fault, but they do believe that Michael has to bear some responsiblity when it came to his own health. If you have friends of Michael's like Deepak Chopra and Arnold Klein saying that Michael came to them for certain drugs and when they declined his request, he sought out other ways to get it, then Michael is responsible for putting himself in that situation. You can not ignore that fact.

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What you cannot ignore is what the autopsy said about Michael's organs. The condition of Michael's organs were healthy---did not support the "long-time drug addict" myth. Long time drug addicts and alcoholics will definitely have damaged organs. But I notice the media doesn't report about the condition of his organs; but they want to talk about needle marks and the fact that he wore a wig---you know the most sensational stuff to support the 'drug addict angle' and to humiliate him even further.

And as for Deepak Chopra, Arnold Klein and anyone else, they can claim ANYTHING they want to about Michael---what do they have to lose? Michael is not around to defend himself, no longer around to confirm or deny. They can say Michael was free-basing cocaine and demanded a fix from them and they refused. And of course it would be reported, spread like the gospel truth and clueless, suckered public will eat it up as usual.

I do not believe Michael asked, demanded nor begged for that propofal nor those other sedatives during the morning of June 25th. The circumstances just doesn't make sense to me at all. But like I said, Michael can't dispute it, he's not here. To automatically believe that Michael would willingly put himself in danger 'just to sleep' is an insult to his character. The man lived for his children. He wanted to be around to see them grow up.

To sit and blame a patient for dying under a doctor's care is insane. Not to mention insensitive. But I forgot, this is MICHAEL JACKSON you're talking about here. He's not supposed to be seen as a victim nor in a sympathetic way. That in itself, makes his death HIS fault. Tell me something, would you blame YOUR loved one if he or she died at the hands of a doctor---even if meds were involved?

There is no way in the world a doctor--a cardiologist at that--would be THAT stupid to make a number of BONE-HEADED 'mistakes' that was made on Michael on June 25th because of some 'demands' of a drug addict celebrity. I don't buy it at all.

Well Said!
Thanks!

rsw22 said:

The difference this time is that proceedings will be televised so the media cannot spin like they did in 2005. People will hear proceedings and expert testimony on both sides for themselves.

Unfortunately, 2005 contained a lot of salacious stuff but if it wasn't for that, televising it would have greatly undermined media spin, because media was reporting quite different from what went on in court.

People have formed misconceptions because it has been MJ detractors all over teh news talking. With a trial, these detractors become irrelevenat and if they are called in to testify, they will be cross-examined.

A guy like Deepak Chopra talks a lot of nonsense. He wasn't MJ's doctor before 2005. MJ left the country in 2005 and did not see him again. So what he says about seeing MJ for a week is subjective. When he says MJ went to other doctors, which doctors? He had to leave the country.
Dr Klein is dodgy. He is trying to shift responsibility and blame MJ. Michael was seeing him up to the point he passed away. How can he say MJ sought prescriptions elsewhere?

MJ had vitiligo - he saw Klein for that
MJ needed muscle reluxants and to look good preparing for the tour - he saw Klein for that
MJ needed to sleep - he had a personal doctor for that
MJ needed a good diet and nutrition - he saw a nutritionist nurse to deal with that

Just like anyone can see different doctors for different issues based on their expertise
For instance a woman can see
- a dietician for their weight
- a gynacologist for reproductive issues
- a specialist for high blood pressure
- a general practitioner for an injury
and so on. All of whom may prescribe different things

But now they want to round up all the prescribed drugs and call them drug addiction
MJ had a prescription from the nurse
MJ had a prescription for muscle reluxant from Dr Klein
MJ had prescription form Dr Murray for something else
MJ had a prescription from another Doctor for something else too
At the time that he passed away, he complained of a pain in the leg, which would also have needed a prescription.

Michael was introduced to propofol by another doctor. MJ did not know about it. The propofol worked well for him in 1996/97. Why would he not seek out a doctor who could prescribe him something that he knew had already worked well for him in his last tour to deal with lack of sleep?
But yeah, Blame Michael, he is responsible, he seeks out drugs even when other doctors refuse.

Well, if a doctor prescribed you something before and it worked, would you not seek out the same prescription again?

The problem is that people always look at the issue without bothering to see how MJ would have seen it. MJ just knows all doctors are trained to do this. The anaesthologist probably told him it is safe as long as he is monitored by a trained doctor, the exact thing Michael repeated to the nurse.

How is MJ to know medical practice rules that it's only anaesthologist suppossed to administer. Murray knew, MJ did not, he just went by what the previous prescribing doctor told him, who was an anesthologist.
In addition, MJ went with Murray to another doctor to show Murray how to do it. These two doctors knew the guidelines, if it was only an aneasthologist supposed to admnister, why did they not tell MJ to use one? Because Murray was not going to pass the $150,000 cheque per month to another doctor.

And as for Klein and Chopra, they are no different to the multitudes that sorrounded MJ who now tell lies and slander him for profit and attention.

Where were they on TV when MJ was alive?

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Thanks for speaking the truth!

I've noticed this too. Sadly, there truly are people who believe this but you know what....I don't care what those people think. F the haters. They won't be the ones in that courtroom speaking out about it.

No, some people act like this on the internet. This was even done to Britney Murphy. Some people have nothing better to do. However I think MOST people are upset over Jackson's death. You can not let a FEW idoits make you think EVERYONE is doing it.

Court.ney.x said:

I've noticed this too. Sadly, there truly are people who believe this but you know what....I don't care what those people think. F the haters. They won't be the ones in that courtroom speaking out about it.

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Exactly. And again, do not let a FEW people make you think otherwise. believe me, if you met some of these people, they would NEVER say this mess in person. that is why I can careless.

enlightenu said:

What you cannot ignore is what the autopsy said about Michael's organs. The condition of Michael's organs were healthy---did not support the "long-time drug addict" myth. Long time drug addicts and alcoholics will definitely have damaged organs. But I notice the media doesn't report about the condition of his organs; but they want to talk about needle marks and the fact that he wore a wig---you know the most sensational stuff to support the 'drug addict angle' and to humiliate him even further.

And as for Deepak Chopra, Arnold Klein and anyone else, they can claim ANYTHING they want to about Michael---what do they have to lose? Michael is not around to defend himself, no longer around to confirm or deny. They can say Michael was free-basing cocaine and demanded a fix from them and they refused. And of course it would be reported, spread like the gospel truth and clueless, suckered public will eat it up as usual.

I do not believe Michael asked, demanded nor begged for that propofal nor those other sedatives during the morning of June 25th. The circumstances just doesn't make sense to me at all. But like I said, Michael can't dispute it, he's not here. To automatically believe that Michael would willingly put himself in danger 'just to sleep' is an insult to his character. The man lived for his children. He wanted to be around to see them grow up.

To sit and blame a patient for dying under a doctor's care is insane. Not to mention insensitive. But I forgot, this is MICHAEL JACKSON you're talking about here. He's not supposed to be seen as a victim nor in a sympathetic way. That in itself, makes his death HIS fault. Tell me something, would you blame YOUR loved one if he or she died at the hands of a doctor---even if meds were involved?

There is no way in the world a doctor--a cardiologist at that--would be THAT stupid to make a number of BONE-HEADED 'mistakes' that was made on Michael on June 25th because of some 'demands' of a drug addict celebrity. I don't buy it at all.

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Being an alcoholic and drug addict are two different things. Alcoholic will have liver damage. However, I see PLENTY of patients who take some of the most potent narcotics on the market with huge doses and present with no organ damage. Most of these people need it for medical purposes and their tolerance is through the roof. In addition, no one said MJ was a long time drug addict. At one time he was addicted, and he did use prescription drugs again as evident by the Neverland raid. People do relapse !

Using Propofol, PERIOD was a danger to Michael. I am sure he knew because Cheryl lee told Michael of the dangers and he insisted it would be safe if he was monitored which we know his room did not have the equipment to support it.

I don't support Murray, but being around celebrities can make you do stupid things for money and prestige. Look at Anna Nicole and others who have died because people don't say no them. Its all about the money in Hollywood and association. Lets not forget how MJ's security team prevented an intervention by the family.Common sense goes out the window when someone is writing you huge checks that will feed your family.

Ernestine said:

Being an alcoholic and drug addict are two different things. Alcoholic will have liver damage. However, I see PLENTY of patients who take some of the most potent narcotics on the market with huge doses and present with no organ damage. Most of these people need it for medical purposes and their tolerance is through the roof. In addition, no one said MJ was a long time drug addict. At one time he was addicted, and he did use prescription drugs again as evident by the Neverland raid. People do relapse !

Using Propofol, PERIOD was a danger to Michael. I am sure he knew because Cheryl lee told Michael of the dangers and he insisted it would be safe if he was monitored which we know his room did not have the equipment to support it.

I don't support Murray, but being around celebrities can make you do stupid things for money and prestige. Look at Anna Nicole and others who have died because people don't say no them. Its all about the money in Hollywood and association. Lets not forget how MJ's security team prevented an intervention by the family.Common sense goes out the window when someone is writing you huge checks that will feed your family.

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Your line about seeing people take huge amounts of drugs and it does nothing to there organs in is the biggest bunch of nonsense I have heard all day. It is a damn insult to me a person who has seen two addicts my family die because of it. Why do you think you tell people to stay away from drugs for there health and state of mine. Who told you Michael's security team prevented an intervention by the family the very same family he saw weeks before he died? Edited…

enlightenu said:

What you cannot ignore is what the autopsy said about Michael's organs. The condition of Michael's organs were healthy---did not support the "long-time drug addict" myth. Long time drug addicts and alcoholics will definitely have damaged organs. But I notice the media doesn't report about the condition of his organs; but they want to talk about needle marks and the fact that he wore a wig---you know the most sensational stuff to support the 'drug addict angle' and to humiliate him even further.

And as for Deepak Chopra, Arnold Klein and anyone else, they can claim ANYTHING they want to about Michael---what do they have to lose? Michael is not around to defend himself, no longer around to confirm or deny. They can say Michael was free-basing cocaine and demanded a fix from them and they refused. And of course it would be reported, spread like the gospel truth and clueless, suckered public will eat it up as usual.

I do not believe Michael asked, demanded nor begged for that propofal nor those other sedatives during the morning of June 25th. The circumstances just doesn't make sense to me at all. But like I said, Michael can't dispute it, he's not here. To automatically believe that Michael would willingly put himself in danger 'just to sleep' is an insult to his character. The man lived for his children. He wanted to be around to see them grow up.

To sit and blame a patient for dying under a doctor's care is insane. Not to mention insensitive. But I forgot, this is MICHAEL JACKSON you're talking about here. He's not supposed to be seen as a victim nor in a sympathetic way. That in itself, makes his death HIS fault. Tell me something, would you blame YOUR loved one if he or she died at the hands of a doctor---even if meds were involved?

There is no way in the world a doctor--a cardiologist at that--would be THAT stupid to make a number of BONE-HEADED 'mistakes' that was made on Michael on June 25th because of some 'demands' of a drug addict celebrity. I don't buy it at all.

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I am looking at this case objectivly. You are only looking at it as a Michael Jackson fan IMO. And if I were you, I wouldn't look at the news, because they are going to sensationalized this case like they have never done before.

How Ironic that the last media circus when it came to a famous court case was the 2005 court case of Michael Jackson and now 5 years later, you have a doctor that worked for Michael Jackson being accused and charged with having something to do with his death. THAT IS MEDIA GOLD I'm sorry to say.

You will have to wait for the trail. You don't know what is going to come out. Yes fans of Michael believe one way, but there will not be Michael Jackson fans when it comes to the jury. The jury will listen to the evidence like they are supposed to do. They will take into consideration everything. Deepak Chopra and Arnonld Klein will not be giving HERESEY testimony if they are called to testify. Heresey meaning that someone other than Michael Jackson asked them for the drugs and said that Michael wanted them to get it for him. These two men said that Michael Jackson himself asked them for drugs. When they take that oath, their testimony better be the truth.

Not everyone that knew Michael Jackson are cheaters and liars..

How is MJ to know medical practice rules that it's only anaesthologist suppossed to administer. Murray knew, MJ did not, he just went by what the previous prescribing doctor told him, who was an anesthologist.
In addition, MJ went with Murray to another doctor to show Murray how to do it. These two doctors knew the guidelines, if it was only an aneasthologist supposed to admnister, why did they not tell MJ to use one? Because Murray was not going to pass the $150,000 cheque per month to another doctor.

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This is all speculation......................

If testemony comes out in the trial that Michael Jackson was warned that this could be dangerous, then Michael may be seen as taken a risk. We will have to wait for the trial.

How many people on this forum ever had minor surgery like dental surgery when they put you under twilight sleep and the doctors had to explain to you what the risk are involved? Sometimes you have to sign documents that you understand this. Michael has had minor medical treatment in the past where I'm sure he came across documents explaining the risk. Maybe not with this propofol and this is where the controversy is with Michael and the doctors that he had. Not just with Murray.

I think he will go to jail and that's what matters but I hate it when people say "Michael wanted it!"

WTF?

JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE WANTS SOMETHING DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULD GIVE THEM IT!

pamarella said:

I don't think the people believe that Murray wasn't at fault, but they do believe that Michael has to bear some responsiblity when it came to his own health. If you have friends of Michael's like Deepak Chopra and Arnold Klein saying that Michael came to them for certain drugs and when they declined his request, he sought out other ways to get it, then Michael is responsible for putting himself in that situation. You can not ignore that fact.

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Sadly I have seen posts on other forums saying that Michael was solely to blame and Murray shouldn't even be on the stand which I have no idea how people can think like that.

rsw22 said:

The difference this time is that proceedings will be televised so the media cannot spin like they did in 2005. People will hear proceedings and expert testimony on both sides for themselves.

Unfortunately, 2005 contained a lot of salacious stuff but if it wasn't for that, televising it would have greatly undermined media spin, because media was reporting quite different from what went on in court.

People have formed misconceptions because it has been MJ detractors all over teh news talking. With a trial, these detractors become irrelevenat and if they are called in to testify, they will be cross-examined.

A guy like Deepak Chopra talks a lot of nonsense. He wasn't MJ's doctor before 2005. MJ left the country in 2005 and did not see him again. So what he says about seeing MJ for a week is subjective. When he says MJ went to other doctors, which doctors? He had to leave the country.
Dr Klein is dodgy. He is trying to shift responsibility and blame MJ. Michael was seeing him up to the point he passed away. How can he say MJ sought prescriptions elsewhere?

MJ had vitiligo - he saw Klein for that
MJ needed muscle reluxants and to look good preparing for the tour - he saw Klein for that
MJ needed to sleep - he had a personal doctor for that
MJ needed a good diet and nutrition - he saw a nutritionist nurse to deal with that

Just like anyone can see different doctors for different issues based on their expertise
For instance a woman can see
- a dietician for their weight
- a gynacologist for reproductive issues
- a specialist for high blood pressure
- a general practitioner for an injury
and so on. All of whom may prescribe different things

But now they want to round up all the prescribed drugs and call them drug addiction
MJ had a prescription from the nurse
MJ had a prescription for muscle reluxant from Dr Klein
MJ had prescription form Dr Murray for something else
MJ had a prescription from another Doctor for something else too
At the time that he passed away, he complained of a pain in the leg, which would also have needed a prescription.

Michael was introduced to propofol by another doctor. MJ did not know about it. The propofol worked well for him in 1996/97. Why would he not seek out a doctor who could prescribe him something that he knew had already worked well for him in his last tour to deal with lack of sleep?
But yeah, Blame Michael, he is responsible, he seeks out drugs even when other doctors refuse.

Well, if a doctor prescribed you something before and it worked, would you not seek out the same prescription again?

The problem is that people always look at the issue without bothering to see how MJ would have seen it. MJ just knows all doctors are trained to do this. The anaesthologist probably told him it is safe as long as he is monitored by a trained doctor, the exact thing Michael repeated to the nurse.

How is MJ to know medical practice rules that it's only anaesthologist suppossed to administer. Murray knew, MJ did not, he just went by what the previous prescribing doctor told him, who was an anesthologist.
In addition, MJ went with Murray to another doctor to show Murray how to do it. These two doctors knew the guidelines, if it was only an aneasthologist supposed to admnister, why did they not tell MJ to use one? Because Murray was not going to pass the $150,000 cheque per month to another doctor.

And as for Klein and Chopra, they are no different to the multitudes that sorrounded MJ who now tell lies and slander him for profit and attention.

Where were they on TV when MJ was alive?

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this is a beautiful post. i have spent twenty years listening to doctors give me wrong advice about my eyes..and it wasn't until i had a bus accident, while driving a bus, wearing prescription eyewear, that i thought, all those doctors might be wrong. and a lot of my life has been wasted giving blind faith to doctors. and, who, in their honest mind, doesn't look crosseyed, at people who question doctors? when i dared to question a doctor, i was considered as trying to find an excuse to be lazy, and be non productive in the workforce, rather than, maybe, trying to look out for my health. these doctors have multiple degrees, and legions of patients that back them up..(as does Dr. Murray, and his legions of patients who are still seeing him[it's interesting how those who are blaming Michael, are ignoring the fact that Murray has some faithful patients still seeing him]) We are the lowly patients. who are we to argue with the prestigious doctors?

people who wanna see Michael as the bad guy, here, always want to see him as the bad guy. nothing new.

Michael bears responsibility for his death, but that doesn't mean Murray doesn't. Michael already paid for his mistake, now it's time for Murray to pay too.

But the way, are we 100 per cent sure that Michael used propofol in 1996/97? I hear people mention it here and there but I didn't see any links (maybe I missed them somewhere). Who do we know this from? Might it be yet another lie about MJ?

respect77 said:

Michael bears responsibility for his death, but that doesn't mean Murray doesn't. Michael already paid for his mistake, now it's time for Murray to pay too.

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Remember to apply that view if or when a doctor does something to cause an injury or death to you or to your loved one. Let's see then how you will accept blame or willingly blame your loved one.

Like I mentioned earlier, Michael's not here to confirm or deny whether he wanted those sedatives pumped into him, topped off with propofal. And Michael's death was ruled a homicide..he didn't inject himself, his 'doctor' did. So please don't go there with the 'Michael's personal responsibility' talk.

callmerose said:

I have noticed that on CNN, ABC and other online news stories about Murray and the trial, the haters are coming out of the woodwork to comment. And I think there are people being paid to make derogatory comments about Michael and say Murray wasn't at fault. I spent a half hour this morning countering all of the garbage comments on CNN. Please go to the news sites and post your comments. Otherwise the haters will start convincing people that their lies are the truth.

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Will do!

It never ceases to amaze me how much hate is in this world.

rsw22 said:

And as for Klein and Chopra, they are no different to the multitudes that sorrounded MJ who now tell lies and slander him for profit and attention.

Where were they on TV when MJ was alive?

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You know Deepak has some nerve. We all saw him irate and saying that he would call out "enabler" doctors on June 25.

Its February? No names Deepak? Why such outrage 7 months ago... and no names.

These people are the worst. Poor Michael :no:

terrell said:

No, some people act like this on the internet. This was even done to Britney Murphy. Some people have nothing better to do. However I think MOST people are upset over Jackson's death. You can not let a FEW idoits make you think EVERYONE is doing it.

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I agree. Let's face it when you are as huge as Michael there will always be haters. It's useless talking to them, and frankly who cares- the best way to deal with them is to ignore them. MOST ppl are very saddened by Michael's passing as evidenced by the huge outpouring from all corners of the world - that in itself angers the haters even more!!! Let's just keep supporting Michael because that is something we can control . We cannot control the haters.

DanceOfZenab1994 said:

I think he will go to jail and that's what matters but I hate it when people say "Michael wanted it!"

WTF?

JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE WANTS SOMETHING DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULD GIVE THEM IT!

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Exactly!!

Even if Michael asked for it because surely he was desperate for some relief, does that mean that this doctor had to give it to him knowing full well that it could be lethal? Did Michael know all those drugs Murray gave him that night could kill him? No! but Murray should have known, he is after all the expert, the physician not Michael. There is absolutely no excuse for it. He took the Hyppocrital oath and that takes precedence over money, fame, anything!! No excuses for Murray!!

To blame Michael for his death is outrageous! First of all he had been administered propofol before and he came out of it just fine. So why not go back to something that had worked before? Yes, he was warned about the risks, but we all get warned about risks before we take medications or anesthesia. He made sure he had a medical doctor to administer it to him. If Murray thought it was too risky he should have said no to Michael period. Especially after he had already injected him with other powerful sedatives? That is just crazy!! and then he leaves the room????

tricia70 said:

Exactly!!

Even if Michael asked for it because surely he was desperate for some relief, does that mean that this doctor had to give it to him knowing full well that it could be lethal? Did Michael know all those drugs Murray gave him that night could kill him? No! but Murray should have known, he is after all the expert, the physician not Michael. There is absolutely no excuse for it. He took the Hyppocrital oath and that takes precedence over money, fame, anything!! No excuses for Murray!!

To blame Michael for his death is outrageous! First of all he had been administered propofol before and he came out of it just fine. So why not go back to something that had worked before? Yes, he was warned about the risks, but we all get warned about risks before we take medications or anesthesia. He made sure he had a medical doctor to administer it to him. If Murray thought it was too risky he should have said no to Michael period. Especially after he had already injected him with other powerful sedatives? That is just crazy!! and then he leaves the room????

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If this story of Nurse Lee, telling Michael of the dangers of using propofol is true, then yes, Michael should have known that the drugs Murray gave him were fatal.

But in terms of who deserves the blame, that would depend on who came up with the brilliant idea that propofol was safe as long as Michael was monitored. If it was the anesthesiologist who supposedly accompanied him during the HIStory tour, then it means that Michael was going by past experience in choosing propofol as a solution now, and not a doctor's advice. In other words, he just went along with it because he didn't die before. What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger, yes? In my opinion, that definitely puts Michael at fault because he went with his own head, rather than a proper doctor's advice for treating insomnia.

I mean, just imagine a scenario. You are walking home from your friend's house and there are two paths, one is through the woods, and the other is your usual route. The former is a 10 minute walk back home, and the latter is a half an hour walk. You ask a nearby officer to escort you home, and he says, "Let's take the path through the woods, it's faster and it'll be safe as long as I am around". In the end, you make it through unscathed! Congratulations, you've just had one hell of an experience with the new route!

During your second visit, your friend warns you about the dangers of the woods, saying that it's full of wild animals. And you tell your friend, "Don't worry, I'll be safe as long as I have a police officer to escort me". As you are returning home, you walk up to the nearest police officer and you say, "I just need you to follow me home through the woods. I've been through there before anyway, so we'll definitely be safe." The officer seems hesitant, and so you offer him an extra bonus of $5 (god knows why, I'm just imagining here) to take you home, and he agrees.

As both of you are walking through the woods, a wolf jumps out and eats you, while the officer manages to flee. Who is at fault in this scenario, for the brilliant idea of walking through the woods because it was "safe" the first time round (a.k.a propofol as a cure for insomnia)?

This is just going by the favoured story of the media, that Michael went doctor-shopping for someone who would give him propofol.

However, if there was no such anesthesiologist during the HIStory tour, and Michael had never experienced propofol before, this would mean that Murray was the one to recommend propofol, and the one who reassured of its safety. In this case, coming back to my imaginary scenario. The first time you actually cross through the woods, you end up being eaten by a tiger (god knows what that's doing there, still imagination). You put your trust in the police officer's words, and you end up dead. Such a pity, do you deserve to be blamed if you had no idea of the dangers of the woods (until your friend told you on your second visit)?

I'm sure we can all agree that Murray himself should have known about the dangers of propofol, so he is not excused from the blame at all. It doesn't matter if he was desperate, of if he was starstruck by Michael. He took the risk upon himself by going beyond what a doctor should be doing. Just as in my imaginary scenario, the second police officer knew the woods was dangerous, that's why he hesitated. But he went with it because you waved a piece of paper in his face. He knew and yet, he didn't try his best to talk you out of it, the same as Murray probably didn't even try to talk Michael out of propofol. Nope, he tried to wean Michael off with even more drugs, and ended up killing him.

Nonetheless, if the first scenario is true, Michael, whether we like it or not, does deserve some blame. And indeed, he payed handsomely for it, he's dead isn't he? If Michael has to face the highest charge for his side of the blame, I don't want this doctor walking after a mere slap to the hand.

Wow, please could you guys bring it down a notch.

There are obviously some strong opinions on this topic, but it's getting to be disrespectful.

Please, chill out, before this thread has to be closed.

kathiejmie said:

But the way, are we 100 per cent sure that Michael used propofol in 1996/97? I hear people mention it here and there but I didn't see any links (maybe I missed them somewhere). Who do we know this from? Might it be yet another lie about MJ?

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There was a New york Post article from February 2000 mentioning Dr. Ratner giving propofol during his previous tour. I'm pretty sure Michael was given propofol during the History Tour.

callmerose said:

I have noticed that on CNN, ABC and other online news stories about Murray and the trial, the haters are coming out of the woodwork to comment. And I think there are people being paid to make derogatory comments about Michael and say Murray wasn't at fault. I spent a half hour this morning countering all of the garbage comments on CNN. Please go to the news sites and post your comments. Otherwise the haters will start convincing people that their lies are the truth.

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That's the story of my Internet life, ever since I started using it regularly in 1997, these bastards/'Haters' come online, and have tried to destroy not only our experience by invading our online homes w/ their vile, but any news story, leaving their ignorant comments. The pinnacle of these hypocritical little turds' existence is to spew their stupidity to build up their insignificant, pathetic lives.

Murray said he gave Michael other drugs than propofol one night and MJ was able to sleep.On Michaels last night he first got several drugs and many hours later he got propofol.
For me it seems like Michael just wanted to sleep and the doctor decided what to give.
I think Michael would have tried anything Murray suggested to get him some sleep but with such severe insomniac it doesn´t help with just some pills.

There are always different opinions on things and it goes for propofol to.You can probably read that its dangerous´and in another place you can read its safe if a doctor is with you.
I believe if the doctor had been there he had seen that something was wrong with the drip at once and Michael would still be alive.

MIST said:

Murray said he gave Michael other drugs than propofol one night and MJ was able to sleep.On Michaels last night he first got several drugs and many hours later he got propofol.
For me it seems like Michael just wanted to sleep and the doctor decided what to give.
I think Michael would have tried anything Murray suggested to get him some sleep but with such severe insomniac it doesn´t help with just some pills.

There are always different opinions on things and it goes for propofol to.You can probably read that its dangerous´and in another place you can read its safe if a doctor is with you.
I believe if the doctor had been there he had seen that something was wrong with the drip at once and Michael would still be alive.

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No, it's the doctors job to find safe and effective help. Propofol is safe when used correctly, meaning being monitored properly and have all the resuscitation equipement handy. Also propofol induces a coma and not sleep so murray's actions aren't even justifiable.