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Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

Final verdict

  • AEG liable

    Votes: 78 48.4%

  • AEG not liable

    Votes: 83 51.6%
  • Total voters
    161
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It will at least go down in history that AEG hired Murray and not Michael as so many have claimed.
 
Tygger said:
It was not necessary in this trial for AEG to know about propofol. It is logical to wonder why a fit and competent doctor did not understand why his patient was deteriorating in front of his eyes during his two months of employment. That is not hindsight. I believe these 10 jurors were a bit confused.
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Don't you think when Michael was shivering & disoriented he asked Murray what was going on? And Murray likely gave him an explanation that satisfied Michael otherwise he would have been calling Klein, Metzger & other doctors for help. Michael was no fool. I'm not a medical doctor, but based on the testimony from both the criminal and civil trials, we can safely reason that the "deterioration" was a combination of symptoms related to the propofol and the normal/customary (for MJ) stresses of rehearsing. The coroner, once again, characterized Michael as "healthy."

The jurors weren't confused.
 
StellaJackson said:
It will at least go down in history that AEG hired Murray and not Michael as so many have claimed.
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That's incorrect. Question 1 does NOT state that it was ONLY AEG Live. ;) It has been said several times (also from the jury foreman just recently) that if they thought both hired him, that would be enough to vote with "Yes". The jury foreman actually explained that all jurors thought that Michael hired him and all thought that AEG Live hired him, too.

Greg Barden (jury foreman) said:
there were so many things said that Michael hired him, there were so many things said AEG hired him and that was a battle back and forth.
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;)
 
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StellaJackson said:
If that were the case then the question would have been worded that way. It was about whether or not AEG hired Murray. They did.
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You have to read the jury-instructions. If Jury thinks MJ and AEG hired Murray it will be also a yes to question 1.
 
Korgnex said:
^ That's incorrect. Question 1 does NOT state that it was ONLY AEG Live. ;) It has been said several times (also from the jury foreman just recently) that if they thought both hired him, that would be enough to vote with "Yes". The jury foreman actually explained that all jurors thought that Michael hired him first and all thought that AEG Live hired him, too.




;)
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The question wasn't "did AEG and Michael hire Murray?" It was "did AEG hire Murray?"

That quote actually shows that they couldn't decide who hired him. In the end they decided it was AEG and thus they answered yes to the question. Ultimately, the semantics of it will become irrelevant as the official verdict states that AEG hired Murray and makes no mention of Michael hiring him.
 
twinklEE said:
She didnt seek restitution against Murray because her lawyers told her doing so would minimize any damages she'd get from a possible lawsuit win against AEG. She chose to opt for AEG because she was after the big $$ not tiny $$. What could Murray possibly offer her.? A couple of $$? That's not what she wanted, she was after millions of $$ if not billions and she went after whoever had it, in this case AEG. She gambled and lost and it serves her right.

I am convinced the psychopath of a son of hers (Steven Randall) is on the verge of exploding. He will definitely go try to go after the Estate again.
Wonder who will fund the greasy one's hotel now?
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Oxman on Nancy Gracy:
Out to you, Brian Oxman, you`re a long-time Jackson family friend. Don`t you think that $2 billion was excessive? If I had been on that jury, I would have been so turned off by Katherine Jackson, you know she`s the puppet of Joe Jackson, who abused Michael Jackson his whole childhood, was set to rake in that money $2 billion, Brian?

OXMAN: Nancy, the money was never the issue in this case. I just talked to Randy Jackson about ten minutes ago. And Nancy, he is heartbroken. He cried, I cried. This is not about money, Nancy. These tears are not the product of somebody trying to suck on Michael Jackson or do any of that.

We loved this man. He was someone who was my friend for 25 years. He is someone who I gave up all of my -- literally worldly possessions to try to help -- and when I talked to Randy Jackson, he was devastated. I can feel the pain of his entire family. This was never about money.

Oxman is fool, and why Randy cried not because injustice, but because he was left penniless, and he cried because he is going to have to find a job.
 
we can safely reason that the "deterioration" was a combination of symptoms related to the propofol and the normal/customary (for MJ) stresses of rehearsing.
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Murray gave Michael other drugs too and we can´t really know about symphtoms related to longtime use of propofol.Noone has used propofol in this way before.
 
Thank God. That's all I got to say. I'm not siding with AEG, but from the get go this case was driven by nothing, but financial motives on the part of the Jacksons. To top it off, they were willing to sacrifice Michael's legacy, privacy and kids for it.
So, thank God, they lost.
 
sfosteredi said:
End of interview...
Matt: Dr. Murray we will look forward to talking to you hopefully when you get our of jail in a couple of weeks. We thank you for your time this morning.

Murray: I look forward to speaking with you, I'd like to have a conversation in its entirety when I get out.

Matt: Ok, we look forward to it.


Not sure if this link for interview will work:
http://www.today.com/video/today/53173679#53173679
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What the hell is wrong with these media people :mat:
I'm surprised that Mat person didn't ask what CM wants with his cofee and if he wants donuts with his coffee.
Perhaps roll out red carpet?

This got to stop, I'm getting so angry :angry::mat:
 
Bubs said:
Oxman on Nancy Gracy:
Out to you, Brian Oxman, you`re a long-time Jackson family friend. Don`t you think that $2 billion was excessive? If I had been on that jury, I would have been so turned off by Katherine Jackson, you know she`s the puppet of Joe Jackson, who abused Michael Jackson his whole childhood, was set to rake in that money $2 billion, Brian?

OXMAN: Nancy, the money was never the issue in this case. I just talked to Randy Jackson about ten minutes ago. And Nancy, he is heartbroken. He cried, I cried. This is not about money, Nancy. These tears are not the product of somebody trying to suck on Michael Jackson or do any of that.

We loved this man. He was someone who was my friend for 25 years. He is someone who I gave up all of my -- literally worldly possessions to try to help -- and when I talked to Randy Jackson, he was devastated. I can feel the pain of his entire family. This was never about money.

Oxman is fool, and why Randy cried not because injustice, but because he was left penniless, and he cried because he is going to have to find a job.
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Someone should tell Brian that Randy crying "I'm broke, I'm broke." Isn't crying because of injustice.

Well, expect to see Randy at the local grocery store asking 'Paper, or plastic?'
 
Thsi snippet is from HLNtv article news thread:
The verdict also means that the Jacksons' legal battles may not be over. They could appeal their case against AEG Live to a higher court, and they could also sue Murray for damages for his role in Jackson’s death.

The doctor may have limited resources as he sits in prison, but the family could sue him for future earnings. If the Jacksons are successful in suing Murray, he may have to turn over any proceeds from a book deal or any income if he ever practices medicine again.

Can they go after CM this late? Can PPB go after him when they grow older?
 
Bubs said:
Oxman on Nancy Gracy:
Out to you, Brian Oxman, you`re a long-time Jackson family friend. Don`t you think that $2 billion was excessive? If I had been on that jury, I would have been so turned off by Katherine Jackson, you know she`s the puppet of Joe Jackson, who abused Michael Jackson his whole childhood, was set to rake in that money $2 billion, Brian?

OXMAN: Nancy, the money was never the issue in this case. I just talked to Randy Jackson about ten minutes ago. And Nancy, he is heartbroken. He cried, I cried. This is not about money, Nancy. These tears are not the product of somebody trying to suck on Michael Jackson or do any of that.

We loved this man. He was someone who was my friend for 25 years. He is someone who I gave up all of my -- literally worldly possessions to try to help -- and when I talked to Randy Jackson, he was devastated. I can feel the pain of his entire family. This was never about money.

Oxman is fool, and why Randy cried not because injustice, but because he was left penniless, and he cried because he is going to have to find a job.
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BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA *cough, wheeze, crying laughing*, you hit the nail on the head with that sentence!! I thought the same thing. Jermaine's crying too, because he'll have to pay his own child support now. In all seriousness, I'm completely disgusted with that family and feel sorry that Michael was so used and disrespected by those that claim to "love" him. He deserved better. Rest in PEACE now, Michael...
 
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LA Times has live chat with Jeff G
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-la-now-live-jackson-aeg-20131003-dto,0,7484932.story

Questions and his replies:
C Carroll Adams:
Will AEG recover their legal costs defending against this nonsense?
Thursday October 3, 2013 9:07

Jeff Gottlieb: They could ask the court to order the Jackson's to pay their legal costs. They've done it before.
----------
Joseph Serna: How much money are we talking? What were the costs on both sides if you could put a number to it?
Thursday October 3, 2013 9:08

C Carroll Adams:
I believe it is vital that AEG take steps to be made whole to prevent future extortion suits such as this one.
Thursday October 3, 2013 9:09

Jeff Gottlieb: The legal costs are staggering, but neither side will say how much they spent. It has to be more than $20 million.
----------

Dr. Sniff:
Why are Michael Jackson fans so divorced from reality?
Thursday October 3, 2013 9:01

Jeff Gottlieb: They're just dedicated to Michael

Good answer from Jeff:)
 
qbee said:
Yes there was evidence to show they didn't know .. but There was no evidence to show they did know about Murray being negligent or propofol.

The questions were (1)did AEG hire Murray (2) Was Murray capable/competent of doing the job he was hired for (3) Did AEg know Murray was negligent in his treatment. - They never got to question 3 .. which I also believe they would have answered NO. There was NO evidence to show they knew what was going on behind closed doors in MJs Bedroom. A Jury cant base their verdict on a hunch AEG may have been lying. They have to go by evidence given in the trial.

Of course you would not be liable if a Dr you hired killed your mom. That would not be your fault.
That would be the fault of the negligent DR. ..

Chris I understand your being upset - :( but This is nothing against MJ that AEG wasn't found liable for what Dr Murray did to him... Michael was not at fault for Murray killing him. Go do some sports maybe that will help you to calm down :better:
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did it missed something?
 
SheilaMJFan4Ever said:
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA *cough, wheeze, crying laughing*, you hit the nail on the head with that sentence!! I thought the same thing. Jermaine's crying too, because he'll have to pay his own child support now. In all seriousness, I'm completely disgusted with that family and feel sorry that Michael was so used and direspected by those that claim to "love" him. He deserved better. Rest in PEACE now, Michael...
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Get your popcorn ready as once he stops crying, he'll start tweeting. It'll be a hoot :giggle:

Btw, I absolutely hate NG, but this time she was right:
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. The Michael Jackson family money machine screeches to a halt after decades of living off the pop icon. Tito, Jermaine, Marlon, Randy, Jackie, go get a job like the rest of us!

In the last hours, a California jury refuses to fork over even one red cent to the Jackson family when they go after entertainment giant AEG, who promoted Michael Jackson`s comeback tour titled "This Is It," the jury refusing to hold AEG responsible for Jackson`s death at the hand of Michael Jackson`s prescription-pad-loving personal doctor, who let Michael Jackson die using anesthesia propofol as a sleep aid.

The Jackson family, as always, coming up with a money-making scheme like no other to sue AEG for up to $2 billion!

I hope that message is heard and understood in Jackson household.
 
Korgnex said:
@mjchris: Murray is an unethical doctor, however, of course he did have both the technical knowledge (thus being fit) and the licence to provide general medical care (thus being competent). That was a sore spot to Panish's case and that's why he lost.

His unethical actions were not relevant to that question and both Panish and Putnam were fully aware of the wording of that question as the questions were determined by both parties and affirmed by the judge. Panish knew too well he could lose if the jury understands the relation between these two terms and "the work he was hired for" part as plaintiffs have failed to prove that Murray was hired for some special treatment.

And regarding your first example:
Are you sure you would prefer to be found liable if you hire a doctor for treating your mother that kills her
a) if the doctor was fit and competent?
b) if you had no knowledge that the doctor was unfit or incompetent?

I think it's quite logical you should only be liable if you knew/should have known the doctor was unfit or incompetent for what you hired him for.

And about your second example:


That would be mediate perpetration through a human being as a cat's-paw. So nothing would be ok.
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and that is your answer.
thats why i said that. there is no evidence that they dont want to hire him for giving him everything to make him able to perform. i'm sure it was like this. but of course they dont want to say anything in court ("i dont know, i dont remember, i dont recall, bla bla bla...), there is no evidence to say they are guilty. and thats the problem. i know that.
but we know they are lied a lot in the depo and in court. and they get away with this. they are partly responsible for michael jackson death. thats a fact. now they are officially the once that hired murray.
 
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MIST;3913318 said:
What´s the evidence that tell us that AEG knew what happened in Michael´s bedroom?
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exactly. there is none. cause they dont talk, dont want to recall or lied.
but i'm sure, after what i have read, saw and heard the last 4 years, that they have known what was going on.
 
Annita said:
Or Michael and AEG. This would also a yes to question one.
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no. the question was if aeg hired him. and now its a fact that its aeg.
and if someone said that it also could be michael jackson. then u can also change question 2, and then you have a guilty vertict.
 
mjchris said:
and that is your answer.
thats why i said that. there is no evidence that they dont want to hire him for giving him everything to make him able to perform. i'm sure it was like this. but of course they dont want to say anything in court ("i dont know, i dont remember, i dont recall, bla bla bla...), there is no evidence to say they are guilty. and thats the problem. i know that.
but we know they are lied a lot in the depo and in court. and they get away with this. they are partly responsible for michael jackson death. thats a fact. now they are officially the once that hirde murray.
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The Plantiffs have the burden of proving their case, they couldn't bring that evidence because there was none. So with no evidence how could you be so sure?

They hired Murray but didn't do so negligently, only if it was negligent would they be liable.

The he blame for Michaels dealt his firmly put back to where it should be, with Murray.
 
Bubs said:
Get your popcorn ready as once he stops crying, he'll start tweeting. It'll be a hoot :giggle:

Btw, I absolutely hate NG, but this time she was right:
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. The Michael Jackson family money machine screeches to a halt after decades of living off the pop icon. Tito, Jermaine, Marlon, Randy, Jackie, go get a job like the rest of us!

In the last hours, a California jury refuses to fork over even one red cent to the Jackson family when they go after entertainment giant AEG, who promoted Michael Jackson`s comeback tour titled "This Is It," the jury refusing to hold AEG responsible for Jackson`s death at the hand of Michael Jackson`s prescription-pad-loving personal doctor, who let Michael Jackson die using anesthesia propofol as a sleep aid.

The Jackson family, as always, coming up with a money-making scheme like no other to sue AEG for up to $2 billion!

I hope that message is heard and understood in Jackson household.
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LOL! I have my popcorn and beer ready, Bubs! We both can't stand NG, but I have to give her major props for what she said, because she spoke the TRUTH.
 
Bubs said:
Oxman on Nancy Gracy:
Out to you, Brian Oxman, you`re a long-time Jackson family friend. Don`t you think that $2 billion was excessive? If I had been on that jury, I would have been so turned off by Katherine Jackson, you know she`s the puppet of Joe Jackson, who abused Michael Jackson his whole childhood, was set to rake in that money $2 billion, Brian?

OXMAN: Nancy, the money was never the issue in this case. I just talked to Randy Jackson about ten minutes ago. And Nancy, he is heartbroken. He cried, I cried. This is not about money, Nancy. These tears are not the product of somebody trying to suck on Michael Jackson or do any of that.

We loved this man. He was someone who was my friend for 25 years. He is someone who I gave up all of my -- literally worldly possessions to try to help -- and when I talked to Randy Jackson, he was devastated. I can feel the pain of his entire family. This was never about money.

Oxman is fool, and why Randy cried not because injustice, but because he was left penniless, and he cried because he is going to have to find a job.
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i dont want to give the jacksons a cent. but your coment is ridiculous. you dont know if thats true. in my opinion your post is full of hate.
 
mjchris said:
and if someone said that it also could be michael jackson. then u can also change question 2, and then you have a guilty vertict.
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Huh? That makes no sense.

Btw, a guilty verdict is only for a criminal trial, this is a civil trial.
 
Dr. Sniff:
Why are Michael Jackson fans so divorced from reality?
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I actually know more about reality since I joined this forum than before.
I know it´s me posting the stories about shark finning, puppy mills, captured orcas, motherbird feeding their babies with plastics which they think is food etc but I didn´t know about it before I came here.
 
mjchris said:
i dont want to give the jacksons a cent. but your coment is ridiculous. you dont know if thats true. in my opinion your post is full of hate.
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If you look your own posts, they are full of hate for AEG, so we are the same, the direction of hate is only difference.
You can say my post is full of hate toward Randy and some other Jackson's, but the hate is there because what they did to MJ and they still are doing to Michael's kids, and today is the day for celebration for me because he lost his case, and rightly so.

Btw, which part of what NG said is not true, and can you back up your claims?
What NG said, I can back up what she said with list of thing about Jacksons.

You say I cannot say so because I don't know if it is true (insert eyebrown lift here).
You say based on what you have read, heard or saw last 4 years, EG should have known.

According to yourself, no you cannot say that because you don't know if its true.
Or do you mean that you can say, but I can't because I'm going against your beliefs?

Btw no 2, it is funny that you say AEG should have known, but people living in the house didn't have a clue, but you are great that you could say you knew, even though you weren't in the house.
 
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Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

Korgnex said:
I second this. And you know what? Because of emotions people have been targeting Ivy for some time now, just yesterday her haters wrote an article that says Ivy would be an "Estate-sponsored PR plant secretly manipulating fans"...

As I'm usually called a "Sony spy", I can understand people's obsession with one nickname.
Gosh, those fan wars are so pathetic. If they only realized how much time they are losing to think about all this BS, telling oneself to know exactly the reasoning of one person and they would have "exposed" that person as some sort of spy or whatelse they could come up with.


And about emotions, I can understand what SOME (not all) people feel:

  • MJ family = MJ
  • Philipps/Gongaware + that "freak" dude [can't remember the name] = whole AEG ==> AEG = evil bad company
  • Mesereau recommending Pansih to KJ ==> justice
  • the trial would be about "the search for the truth"

However the reality is this:

  • MJ's family consists of various individuals that had their own lifes and their "lion cubs" leeching philosophy is what they revealed themselves as well as their actions speak for themselves (Randy eg being a convicted criminal), they are NOT MJ
  • Philipps/Gongaware + that "freak" dude [can't remember the name] are 3 individuals and NOT AEG Live as a whole, their private emails are not making AEG Live an evil bad company, the trial showed that some were suspecting Klein and that they consulted with MJ and Murray about his health
  • Mesereau as a good lawyer saw a chance of winning this and thus recommended another good lawyer to KJ ==> lawyers aren't about justice in the first place (the court is!), they are representing the interests of their clients
  • the trial was about money
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Welcome to the club, I am an AEG plant.
 
mjchris said:
i dont want to give the jacksons a cent. but your coment is ridiculous. you dont know if thats true. in my opinion your post is full of hate.
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How is Bubs' comment ridiculous? Or full of hate? It's true, that's the REAL reason Randy's crying. It's not because he thought this was injustice, it's because he thought he was getting big bucks, but he lost. Do you really believe that any of those Jacksons care about Michael? If so, please tell me how this trial was gonna help his legacy.

The fact is, the Jacksons (except PPB) have been living off of Michael way too long and it's time to find a real job. Come to think of it, I oughta tweet Randy and tell him that they have a job open at McDonald's.
 
Is randy still crying lol. thank... for some justice.

the only thing |'m 'glad' about if you wanna call it being 'glad/happy' is the fact that they weren't rewarded for all the harm they caused Michael. Them throwing Michael under the bus, calling him every disgusting name under the sun, having paid experts there to further sully his name got them nothing. So much resentment toward him, so much hatred, so much anger, they invested so much time and emotions in this case and it got them nothing. I'm glad they weren't rewarded for their ****ery.Last edited by twinklEE; Today at*03:53 AM.*
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*Multi-Quote This Message

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well said twink. They got what they deserved after what they did to michael.any other verdict would have been sickening after what they did to mj and his kids

nice to see taj thinks u only get closure with 40 bill in the bank.i thought they wanted to know what happened and it wasnt about the money. taj is such a let down after what mj did for him hes nothing more than a well trained brainwashed jackson where the family as a whole is more important than the individual
 
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