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Thread: MJ's Tenor Voice

   
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    Default Re: MJ's Tenor Voice

    mj_freezy i don't know where you get your info from but everytime you make comments on threads their always negative lies about Michael instead of positive. i don't know should i call you a fan or not. more like a troll. keep on and the staff gonna a ban you for your comments about Michael.



    a female with major depression,generalized anxiety,behavioral and emotional disorder,ocd mild retardation, and learning disability. i'm not contagious but my smile is.

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    Default Re: MJ's Tenor Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by GGVVGGCC22331122 View Post
    I had either heard of, or read about (some time ago) a Broadway play of the same name, that the later film was supposed to have been based on. All I know is, both the play and the film had to do with dancing. That’s all I really know about it, other than the role Michael was offered to portray in the movie, the part he turned down for his own reasons. I’m sure that neither the play nor the movie only centered around one character, or one individual, but many of them. It’s just that, if Michael went on ahead and accepted playing the character offered to him, think of how extremely controversial that would have been for him —— in helping to further spread the gossip, LIES, speculation, rumors, etc., even faster, stories about him that already were going around, even back then, during the Late-’70’s —— to have done it at that time, and how emotionally painful to everyone who knew and loved him, especially, to his family members.
    I understand. my bad. sorry Michael. it's sad to know even in the late 70's people was rude and spreading lies about Michael then. it seem his whole life was like this. ugh. what is it with world? it always the good people.



    a female with major depression,generalized anxiety,behavioral and emotional disorder,ocd mild retardation, and learning disability. i'm not contagious but my smile is.

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    Default Re: MJ's Tenor Voice

    MJFrenzy, there is plenty of information you can look for, and find it yourself on “Google,”® if you want to search for articles showing, and plainly pointing out, the similarities in the content of both Branchereau’s and Murray’s books. Obviously, Conrad Murray repeats the exact same bogus, outrageous, completely unbelievable “chemical castration” story —— one that has been proven not to be true, many many times over —— as Alain Branchereau had first come up with in his own book. So, how can you even say that there is no coincidence of two authors writing about the same story, just five years apart, without Murray, himself, possibly even knowing that Branchereau’s book exists? He had to have heard of the story before (or, at least, had to have heard of, read about, or known of, some earlier version of it), in order to have repeated it in his own way. Here is something you should read:

    “Was Michael Jackson really castrated? Conspiracy theory debunks Conrad Murray's bombshell claim
    Michael Jackson may have died 10 years ago ( or not, if you believe the diehard fans ), but his bizarre life is still the subject of intense speculation.

    From rumours about his chimp, Bubbles; his apparent need to sleep inside an oxygen chamber every night, and the shocking allegations surrounding his inappropriate behaviour with underage boys, speculation about Jackson is just as rife after his death as it was while he was still alive.

    One rumour that keeps re-emerging over the years is the supposed castration Michael's father Joe Jackson put him through pre-puberty to keep his singing voice high.

    Michael's own personal doctor, Conrad Murray - who served two years in jail after being found guilty of Jackson's involuntary manslaughter - gave credence to the theory in his 2016 book This Is It! The Secret Lives Of Dr Conrad Murray And Michael Jackson.

    Read More
    1966: Michael Jackson, from his days as part of The Jackson 5, poses for the camera
    Michael Jackson from his days as part of The Jackson 5 in 1966
    Dr. Conrad Murray
    Dr Conrad Murray claimed Jackson had been castrated by his father Joe to maintain his high singing voice (Image: Reuters)
    In it, he claimed that the patriarch of The Jackson 5 had forced Michael to have hormone injections at the age of 12, ostensibly to treat a case of teenage acne.

    But abusive Joe Jackson allegedly subjected his son to a course of anti-male hormones that stop the production of testosterone in males and can bring about a chemical castration, keeping the voice high if the hormones are given before puberty kicks in.

    "The cruelty expressed by Michael that he experienced at the hand of his father," Murray was filmed saying after his release from jail.

    "The fact that he was chemically castrated to maintain his high-pitched voice is beyond words... I hope Joe Jackson finds redemption in hell."

    Michael himself once spoke about his debilitating acne, revealing he felt suicidal as his relatives criticised his appearance.

    Read More
    Michael Jackson
    Jackson was given acne-treating injections when he was 12 - but a doctor claimed these were secret anti-male hormones
    "One cousin would always do this to me when he sees me, try to pop my pimples. I would go to the bedroom and cry," he told Martin Bashir in the groundbreaking 2003 documentary ‘Living With Michael Jackson.’

    Speaking of what his father would say to him as a child, Michael went on: "'God your nose is big, you didn't get it from me'... You wanna die. You wanna die, and on top of it you gotta go on stage in the spotlight in front of hundreds of thousands of people and just... god, it's hard.

    "I would have been happier wearing a mask."

    Murray wasn't the only expert who flagged the possibility that Michael had gone through a chemical castration.

    French doctor Alain Branchereau told Medical Xpress in 2011 that Jackson clearly had "the voice of a castrato" and pointed to the hormone Cyproterone, which can be used to treat acne and shut down male hormones.

    Read More
    Joe and Katherine Jackson arrive at court (Pic:Reuters)
    Michael's abusive father Joe and his mother Katherine Jackson
    The drug "keeps a child's larynx all his life in a man's body," Branchereau later wrote in his book ‘Michael Jackson: The Secret Of A Voice.’

    However, his theory was rubbished by researchers pointing out that Cyproterone was still in clinical trials in the 1970s, when Jackson would have been given it, and that he appeared to have gone through puberty as normal.

    Jackson's autopsy also seemed to pour cold water on the feverish castration theory.

    The coroner's report found: "The genitalia are those of an adult male. The penis appears uncircumcised. The extremities show no edema [swelling], joint deformity or abnormal mobility."

    It went on to confirm Jackson's larynx seemed normal.

    Read More

    Jackson's autopsy uncovered nothing unusual about his genitalia or larynx
    "There is no edema of the larynx. Both hyoid bone and larynx are intact without fractures. No hemorrhage is present in the adjacent throat organs, investing fascia, strap muscles, thyroid or visceral fascia.

    "Both testes are in the scrotum and are unremarkable and without trauma."

    So why does the conspiracy that Jackson was a eunuch persist?

    One reason could be that it popped up as a rumour to help strengthen Michael's denial that he ever physically molested young boys.

    Read More

    Jackson arriving at court for his pre child abuse trial arraignment in April 2004 (Image: Getty Images North America)
    He was put on trial in 2005 for seven counts of child molestation and two charges of administering an intoxicating agent to a 13-year-old boy - but despite evidence from some of his alleged abusers, Jackson was acquitted of every charge.

    However, at no point during his trial did his legal team tell the court he had been castrated and therefore unable to sexually assault anyone with his penis - something that no doubt would have helped his case, had it been true.

    So was it nothing more than the made-up claims of a disgraced medical professional, who was still hurting from being put behind bars for his most famous client's death?

    Could Conrad Murray have only made the bombshell claim to sell copies of his book after his prison stint?

    One thing is for sure: Michael Jackson conspiracy theories will continue to rage on until those closest to him in life are able to put the record straight once and for all.”

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    Default Re: MJ's Tenor Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by GGVVGGCC22331122 View Post
    MJFrenzy, there is plenty of information you can look for, and find it yourself on “Google,”® if you want to search for articles showing, and plainly pointing out, the similarities in the content of both Branchereau’s and Murray’s books. Obviously, Conrad Murray repeats the exact same bogus, outrageous, completely unbelievable “chemical castration” story —— one that has been proven not to be true, many many times over —— as Alain Branchereau had first come up with in his own book. So, how can you even say that there is no coincidence of two authors writing about the same story, just five years apart, without Murray, himself, possibly even knowing that Branchereau’s book exists? He had to have heard of the story before (or, at least, had to have heard of, read about, or known of, some earlier version of it), in order to have repeated it in his own way. Here is something you should read:
    I never talked (in my previous posts) about him being castrated in order to maintain his high voice.

    Also, these things you posted are just some reviews of these two books, which, again, it is not a proper way when you want to judge certain books.

    My point is that, a man can take anti-male hormones (for keeping a high voice) without necessarily being castrated (this appears to be the case when it comes to MJ).

    Also, about MJ’s high, childlike voice which you claim it was absolutely natural, I will give you a very characteristic example.

    Listen to his voice during his speech at the 2002 Bambi Awards, where at some parts his voice sounds normal, but at many other parts his voice sounds high, childlike.

    This is another example which shows that he faked his voice (so as to sound childlike) when he spoke publicly.

    Anyway, GGVVGGCC22331122, let’s agree to disagree about MJ’s speaking & singing voice & what caused him to sound the way it sounded.

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    Default Re: MJ's Tenor Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    I never talked (in my previous posts) about him being castrated in order to maintain his high voice.

    Also, these things you posted are just some reviews of these two books, which, again, it is not a proper way when you want to judge certain books.

    My point is that, a man can take anti-Male hormones (for keeping a high voice) without necessarily being castrated (this appears to be the case when it comes to MJ).

    Also, about MJ’s high, childlike voice which you claim it was absolutely natural, I will give you a very characteristic example.

    Listen to his voice during his speech at the 2002Bambi”® Awards, where at some parts his voice sounds normal, but at many other parts his voice sounds high, childlike.

    This is another example which shows that he faked his voice (so as to sound childlike) when he spoke publicly.

    Anyway, GGVVGGCC22331122, let’s agree to disagree about MJ’s speaking & singing voice & what caused him to sound the way it sounded.
    So, MJFrenzy, as you have read in each of my posts (that is, IF you had thoroughly read any of them at all, through and through), your constant mention of Michael supposedly being given anti-Male hormones is in connection with what obviously fake, false, completely made-up story about the purpose for which he was given them, who gave them to him, and when? What similarities does the content of the two books share, when both authors had each written their own books —— some five years apart, mind you —— making such claims about what happened to Michael in his youth, that affected the sound of his singing- and speaking-voices for the rest of his life?

    I see the obvious connection between your posts and these ancient-as-dirt rumors, the outright, bold-faced LIES that have been told about him ever since his Mid- to Late-teeenage years on through to today, even ten years after his passing. There are, and have been, many different versions of these same LIES told in one form or another, either by the media or through people making these false claims in their books (like Branchereau and Murray have). I will continue to stand by what Michael’s own words, on this —— directly from HIM, himself (as his manager at the time had once read in a quoted statement from him, during a Mid-1980’s press conference) —— have proven not only to me, but to the public-at-large:

    I have NOT taken hormones to maintain my high voice.
    He also stated in his book, “Moonwalk,” that his voice was natural and “God-given.” With that, MJFrenzy, I also will agree to disagree with you, and fully, completely accept the sound of Michael’s voice as totally and completely 100% natural, however he chose to use it, as it was HIS, not any of ours, for him to have done whatever the heck he wanted to do with it on his own terms —— as just having been exactly what it was, THE WAY it was....PERIOD —— whether anyone else believes that or not.
    Last edited by GGVVGGCC22331122; 29-07-2019 at 04:12 PM.

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    Default Re: MJ's Tenor Voice

    detective frency at it again...

    Anyone seriously believing this "he took female hormones to keep a high voice" nonsense, should do some research what taking female hormones ("since puperty"!!) actually does to a male body.
    Last edited by Electro; 29-07-2019 at 03:50 PM.

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    Default Re: MJ's Tenor Voice

    Great comments, Electro!!! Can you post some links to any articles, posts, or “blogs” that can contribute to this discussion, here? Thanks. I would love to know what your personal “take” is, pertaining to this subject matter. What do you have to say about it? Oh, and by the way, don’t you mean “before puberty,” instead of “since puberty”? If some people (be they either Male or Female) have taken any hormones of the opposite gender before puberty (or, had been given them, as was wrongly assumed and speculated about, in Michael’s case, regarding Female hormones), there would be serious, permanent, lifelong physical damage and lasting effects caused by them.

    If such Female hormones were taken by older boys and men who had already finished going through that stage of their lives —— and then, they stopped taking them, for whatever reason —— they won’t be left with any lasting, permanent effects on their bodies, the way that much, much younger boys’ bodies would be affected. It depends upon the age of the Male being given Female hormones —— and, the stage of puberty each individual was at, when he received them —— if they were to have any physical effects on their bodies in any way at all.
    Last edited by GGVVGGCC22331122; 29-07-2019 at 05:22 PM.

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    Default Re: MJ's Tenor Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by GGVVGGCC22331122 View Post
    Great comments, Electro!!! Can you post some links to any articles, posts, or “blogs” that can contribute to this discussion, here? Thanks. I would love to know what your personal “take” is, pertaining to this subject matter. What do you have to say about it? Oh, and by the way, don’t you mean “before puberty,” instead of “since puberty”? If some people (be they either Male or Female) have taken any hormones of the opposite gender before puberty (or, had been given them, as was wrongly assumed and speculated about, in Michael’s case, regarding Female hormones), there would be serious, permanent, lifelong physical damage and lasting effects caused by them.

    If such Female hormones were taken by older boys and men who had already finished going through that stage of their lives —— and then, they stopped taking them, for whatever reason —— they won’t be left with any lasting, permanent effects on their bodies, the way that much, much younger boys’ bodies would be affected. It depends upon the age of the Male being given Female hormones —— and, the stage of puberty each individual was at, when he received them —— if they were to have any physical effects on their bodies in any way at all.

    I'm non-expert enough on the hormones topic to still understand that it's nonsense.
    People who want to change their sex take female hormones not just for having a female voice. It changes the whole body. I never noticed Michael growing boobs over the years, so... lol


    Btw, off topic:
    Could you maybe not format the font in your posts. It's a little hard to read (at least on my desktop screen).

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    Default Re: MJ's Tenor Voice

    No one can ever change his or her D.N.A. or genetic structure, the “XY”- or “XX”-chromosomes of one’s biological gender/sex, even with someone born with genetic abnormalities, as anyone born with the “Y”-chromosome is still biologically Male, regardless of how “feminine” he looks, however high-pitched, thin, light and delicate his voice sounds, the way he dresses, etc.; And, vice-versa, anyone born without it is still a biological genetic Female, no matter how “masculine” she looks and dresses, how low-pitched, deep, rich and heavy her voice sounds, and so forth; It remains the same for everyone throughout the whole entirety of life, whether he/she takes hormones or not. Neither “reassignment” surgeries nor the taking of hormones of the opposite gender can, or ever will, alter the molecular structure of ANY person or individual, no matter how close the person is to looking, or sounding, like someone else of the opposite gender.

    For instance, let’s say, a genetic Male gets “reassigned”* (*as I’m sorry, for lack of a better word to use, here) as a “Female” —— through hormones, surgeries, the way one dresses, the sound of the voice when speaking, etc. —— and, the public sees, hears and perceives of this person as a “Female.” Yet, such an individual will ALWAYS have Male D.N.A. and chromosomes inside of the body’s cells, no matter to whatever degree how “feminine” one seems to be in other people’s perception (what the public obviously sees and hears, how others socially interact with this individual), in the sound of the voice, in this person’s manner of dress, or outward physical appearance.

    Michael NEVER, EVER did that —— at ANY point in his life or career —— despite the vicious rumors, gossip, innuendo, slander and LIES to the contrary, regarding his private life, claiming things about him to the public, during the Late-’70’s and onwards. Though his voice was always naturally high-pitched and soft-spoken, though his hairstyles and facial features looked different from “Thriller”/“Victory” on up to his passing, and the fact that his behavior never fit into outdated stereotypes of “Age” and “Gender,” he ALWAYS truthfully viewed and considered himself as what he physically and genetically was —— as a biological Male, through and through —— in spite of what some amongst the public thought of him. These false stories about Michael continue to persist, but his voice just was EXACTLY the way it so happened to have sounded, naturally —— which was BEAUTIFUL —— throughout his whole entire career and life.
    Last edited by GGVVGGCC22331122; 30-07-2019 at 02:07 PM.

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    Default Re: MJ's Tenor Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by GGVVGGCC22331122 View Post
    No one can ever change his or her D.N.A. or genetic structure; It remains the same for everyone throughout the whole entirety of life, whether he/she takes hormones or not. Neither “reassignment” surgeries nor the taking of hormones of the opposite gender can, or ever will, alter the molecular structure of ANY person or individual, no matter how close the person is to looking, or sounding, like someone else of the opposite gender.

    For instance, let’s say, a genetic Male gets “reassigned”* (*as I’m sorry, for lack of a better word to use, here) as a “Female” —— through hormones, surgeries, the way one dresses, the sound of the voice when speaking, etc. —— and, the public sees, hears and perceives of this person as a “Female.” Yet, such an individual will ALWAYS have Male D.N.A. and chromosomes inside of the body’s cells, no matter to whatever degree how “feminine” one seems to be in other people’s perception (what the public obviously sees and hears, how others socially interact with this individual), in the sound of the voice, in this person’s manner of dress, or outward physical appearance.


    Of course, I didn't mean to say that it would change the DNA.
    But obviously when a male takes female hormones for a longer time (or even "all of his life, since / before puperty" as claimed here), female attributes definitly develope to some degree. See:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transg...mental_effects

    And see "Voice changes". It's not even something to expect with a female hormone therapy.
    So it's pretty save to assume that this story is complete BS.

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    Default Re: MJ's Tenor Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Electro View Post
    Of course, I didn’t mean to say that it would change the D.N.A.
    But obviously, when a Male takes Female hormones for a longer time (or even “all of his life, since / before puberty” as claimed here), “Female” attributes definitely developed to some degree. See:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transg...mental_effects

    And, see “Voice Changes.” It’s not even something to expect with Female Hormone Therapy.
    So, it’s pretty safe to assume that this story is complete B.S.
    What a TOTAL load of crap/bull-mess ALL of these fake, unproven, insinuating, rumor-mongering, sensationalistic, false and defamatory stories are, that have kept circulating in the media for all these many, many years!!! By the way, Electro, I noticed the section in “Wikipedia,”® the one that mentions “Unaffected Characteristics” in “Transgender ‘Females.’ ” One of such “characteristics” being that the “Transgender” person’s adult Male voice will never revert back to its formerly “young” sound, nor will it ever sound naturally “feminine,” if this adult individual has already been through puberty prior to “reassignment.”

    During puberty, the voice deepens in pitch and becomes more resonant. These changes are permanent and are not affected by HRT. Voice therapy and/or surgery may be used instead to achieve a more female-sounding voice.
    If that alone doesn’t prove that Michael never was given any form of Female hormones —— whether such hormones were to, supposedly, treat his adolescent acne, or to help preserve the high pitch and “young” timbre of his voice, whether he used it for singing or for speech, (according to what both Alain Branchereau and Conrad Murray, coincidentally, had each written in their books on him) —— I really don’t know what else does, or what other proof/evidence we need, to counteract people who still believe the rumors.
    Last edited by GGVVGGCC22331122; 27-03-2020 at 10:26 AM.

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    Default Re: MJ's Tenor Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    You have not actually read Alain Branchereau’s book, but you dismissed it solely by bits & pieces of it that you gathered.

    Which is a wrong way of approach when you want to judge a specific book.

    Also, the nature of the cross-dressing character that MJ was offered to play on the ‘A Chorus Line’ film did not really affect his decision to turn it down.

    As a matter of fact, he loved that character which he found it as being very emotional & dramatic.

    The real reason that he turned it down was because he was not interested in acting at that time, but in other priorities concerning his career (at that time he turned down all the roles that he was offered to play from several films).

    Also, at heart MJ revelled in all those speculations coming from media & the public about his private life (including his sexuality, gender) even before ‘Off The Wall’.

    Notice how he gradually (from the early ‘80s onwards) accentuated even more his androgynous image because he wanted even more attention & speculations about him.
    If I may respond to you, on this, MJFrenzy, your entire post is absolutely ridiculous. I don’t have to actually read either Alain Branchereau’s or Conrad Murray’s books, in order for me to know what I’ve read about them and use logic, good reasoning and plain old common sense. Anyone would know, who has read anything about the two books’ having content in them that is SO similar, to at least suspect that Murray didn’t write anything really “original” pertaining to that “chemical castration” story, in his book at all.

    As for Alain Branchereau, why would he have made such outrageous claims in his own book, if he never even examined Michael Jackson as one of his patients, much less the two of them ever having met one another and Michael ever having set foot in this doctor’s office to be examined? They never met. At NO time in Michael’s life, did either of them ever meet. So, Branchereau —— like Murray, some five years after him —— was just speculating and giving his personal opinion. If not speculating, then outright LYING. Both of them are attention-seeking LIARS, who profit off of Michael’s name (and, to completely destroy his reputation) for money.

    From where in THE WORLD, MJFrenzy, did you get such an outrageous idea, that Michael wanted to actually play a character that he knew good and well went so totally against the way he and his siblings were raised/brought up when they were young children, that would not only be as controversial as it would have been, but very devastating and emotionally painful to the family (probably, almost to the point of causing an irreparable rift in it), especially, since he was as close as he was to their mother, Katherine? If he hadn’t turned down the role in the film, wouldn’t his portrayal have made people believe the rumors even more strongly? I truly believe so. For deeply personal reasons, Michael’s beliefs changed in the Late-1980’s, as did some, but not all, of his views on certain issues.
    Last edited by GGVVGGCC22331122; 26-03-2020 at 06:37 AM.

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    Default Re: MJ's Tenor Voice

    Moderators, could you please delete my first, empty post (21-04-2019) in this thread?

    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by GGVVGGCC22331122 View Post
    And where, MJFrenzy, do you think Conrad Murray got his outrageously far-fetched ideas from, to put in his own book? He got them, more than likely, from a doctor who had never even examined Michael as one of his patients —— much LESS than that, Michael’s ever having set foot in his office —— let alone, their ever having met one another. This doctor also wrote a book, several years before Murray did, that originally came up with this stupid, ignorant, outright bold-faced LIE. Here are some comments from posts on another board, discussing that very subject matter:
    Quote Originally Posted by GGVVGGCC22331122 View Post
    Your whole entire post is based on nothing but old, often-repeated LIES that have been told over and over again, in one form or another —— especially, throughout Michael’s late teens and young adulthood, that continue to persist after his death and won’t be ending anytime soon (despite these myths about the sound of his voice having been thoroughly and completely debunked) —— ever since when he started showing the first signs of his having become a man.

    He has said, many times, that the media and the public had wrongly assumed and speculated things about him and his private life —— about everything from questioning his sexuality to making false assumptions about him regarding his gender (mind you, as this went on as far back as the Mid- to Late-1970’s, long before he ever recorded “Off the Wall,” before the drastic changes in his outward physical appearance that occurred in the Early- to Mid-1980’s and onwards, for the rest of his life), long before there was the currently popular “P. C.” terminology for designating certain lifestyles that is in use, today —— just because of the way his voice so happened to have sounded naturally.

    Around the time he co-starred in “The Wiz” as the “Scarecrow” (maybe, just before that or after, I’m not sure) he was offered a movie role in “A Chorus Line,” but turned it down. Why did he do that, though, considering as badly as he wanted to have become an actor? Because, as he said, he didn’t want to be ‘linked with the part,’ especially, when vicious rumors were flying around that his actual lifestyle either was, or may have been, like that of the character in the film!!! Why did he say that, about people ‘linking’ him with a movie role that went so totally against the very strict moral and religious beliefs he held at the time? Because of what people may have assumed and thought about him already, partly due to his high-pitched, soft-spoken, androgynous, still-“young”-sounding voice, and behavior that had never fit into the outdated, old-fashioned, “macho” Male stereotype.

    He wouldn’t have wanted to deliberately do anything that would have caused anyone to spread rumors and LIES about his personal life, that not only were extremely hurtful to his family but also hurtful to his friends, fans, and anyone who knew and loved him. Now, would he? I still believe that Murray was only repeating the same false story that was written in Dr. Alain Branchereau’s book in 2011, given that Conrad Murray’s came out in 2016, just five years later; There’s way too much of a coincidence that both books repeat the same story. As for what Michael had supposedly “said” to the Rabbi, (Some “friend” the Rabbi was....Right?) I only saw unsubstantiated quotes attributed to Michael online, but haven’t yet seen or heard anything directly, that ultimately proves —— without any shadow of a doubt, nor any question —— that those words regarding the sound of his voice actually came from his mouth.

    Four Octaves is an extremely wide Vocal Range for an adult Male singer/vocalist, and he was able to hit his Upper Register notes without relying on the use of “Falsetto” to reach them. So, that means his voice, no matter how he used it, was naturally high-pitched and “young”-sounding, for an adult. The only thing some people find “wrong” with its sound was that it never conformed to old-fashioned “Age” or “Gender” viewpoints, ideas, notions, and/or stereotypes. I like the way his voice sounded —— whether he spoke or sang —— fully accept that it was the way it was, and say: SO WHAT!!! It was absolutely BEAUTIFUL. And, I love the sound of it.”
    Quote Originally Posted by GGVVGGCC22331122 View Post
    MJFrenzy, there is plenty of information you can look for, and find it yourself on “Google,”® if you want to search for articles showing, and plainly pointing out, the similarities in the content of both Branchereau’s and Murray’s books. Obviously, Conrad Murray repeats the exact same bogus, outrageous, completely unbelievable “chemical castration” story —— one that has been proven not to be true, many many times over —— as Alain Branchereau had first come up with in his own book. So, how can you even say that there is no coincidence of two authors writing about the same story, just five years apart, without Murray, himself, possibly even knowing that Branchereau’s book exists? He had to have heard of the story before (or, at least, had to have heard of, read about, or known of, some earlier version of it), in order to have repeated it in his own way. Here is something you should read:
    Quote Originally Posted by GGVVGGCC22331122 View Post
    So, MJFrenzy, as you have read in each of my posts (that is, IF you had thoroughly read any of them at all, through and through), your constant mention of Michael supposedly being given anti-Male hormones is in connection with what obviously fake, false, completely made-up story about the purpose for which he was given them, who gave them to him, and when? What similarities does the content of the two books share, when both authors had each written their own books —— some five years apart, mind you —— making such claims about what happened to Michael in his youth, that affected the sound of his singing- and speaking-voices for the rest of his life?

    I see the obvious connection between your posts and these ancient-as-dirt rumors, the outright, bold-faced LIES that have been told about him ever since his Mid- to Late-teeenage years on through to today, even ten years after his passing. There are, and have been, many different versions of these same LIES told in one form or another, either by the media or through people making these false claims in their books (like Branchereau and Murray have). I will continue to stand by what Michael’s own words, on this —— directly from HIM, himself (as his manager at the time had once read in a quoted statement from him, during a Mid-1980’s press conference) —— have proven not only to me, but to the public-at-large:

    He also stated in his book, “Moonwalk,” that his voice was natural and “God-given.” With that, MJFrenzy, I also will agree to disagree with you, and fully, completely accept the sound of Michael’s voice as totally and completely 100% natural, however he chose to use it, as it was HIS, not any of ours, for him to have done whatever the heck he wanted to do with it on his own terms —— as just having been exactly what it was, THE WAY it was....PERIOD —— whether anyone else believes that or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by GGVVGGCC22331122 View Post
    If I may respond to you, on this, MJFrenzy, your entire post is absolutely ridiculous. I don’t have to actually read either Alain Branchereau’s or Conrad Murray’s books, in order for me to know what I’ve read about them and use logic, good reasoning and plain old common sense. Anyone would know, who has read anything about the two books’ having content in them that is SO similar, to at least suspect that Murray didn’t write anything really “original” pertaining to that “chemical castration” story, in his book at all.

    As for Alain Branchereau, why would he have made such outrageous claims in his own book, if he never even examined Michael Jackson as one of his patients, much less the two of them ever having met one another and Michael ever having set foot in this doctor’s office to be examined? They never met. At NO time in Michael’s life, did either of them ever meet. So, Branchereau —— like Murray, some five years after him —— was just speculating and giving his personal opinion. If not speculating, then outright LYING. Both of them are attention-seeking LIARS, who profit off of Michael’s name (and, to completely destroy his reputation) for money.

    From where in THE WORLD, MJFrenzy, did you get such an outrageous idea, that Michael wanted to actually play a character that he knew good and well went so totally against the way he and his siblings were raised/brought up when they were young children, that would not only be as controversial as it would have been, but very devastating and emotionally painful to the family (probably, almost to the point of causing an irreparable rift in it), especially, since he was as close as he was to their mother, Katherine? If he hadn’t turned down the role in the film, wouldn’t his portrayal have made people believe the rumors even more strongly? I truly believe so. For deeply personal reasons, Michael’s beliefs changed in the Late-1980’s, as did some, but not all, of his views on certain issues.
    Dr. Alain Branchereau explained in his book that the synthetic anti-male hormone drug Cyproterone blocks puberty and the voice cannot mature.

    Also, according to Dr. Alain Branchereau, Michael Jackson was taking Cyproterone at the time in order for him to battle his acne, so his high child-like voice during his later, adult life could have been also a result of that drug.

    Dr. Conrad Murray wrote in his own book later a similar thing.

    Both of the doctors provided in their books also the possibility that the anti-male drug Cyproterone that Michael Jackson was taking castrated him.

    My stance on this issue is that Michael Jackson took Cyproterone (along with adopting a strict vegetarian diet in order to battle his acne), and that anti-male drug also caused to him a high, child-like voice in his adult life (but without being castrated, accidentally or not accidentally).

    Michael Jackson was not castrated because (as he revealed to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach) when he was married to Lisa Marie Presley she was taking birth control pills in order for her to avoid getting pregnant by him (and that was a main reason for Michael Jackson to divorce her).

    About the ‘A Chorus Line’ film, here are Michael Jackson’s own words about that:

    … I saw ‘A Chorus Line’ again and I love the part [of the cross-dressing character]. It’s dramatic, emotional and if you have any feelings at all, it has to touch you…” (Michael Jackson, 1979)

    Like I said before, Michael Jackson turned down all the film roles that he was offered at that time due to other more important priorities for him (upcomimg studio albums, concerts, etc).

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    Default Re: MJ's Tenor Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    Moderators, could you please delete my first, empty post (21-04-2019) in this thread?

    Thanks.











    Dr. Alain Branchereau explained in his book that the synthetic anti-male hormone drug Cyproterone blocks puberty and the voice cannot mature.

    Also, according to Dr. Alain Branchereau, Michael Jackson was taking Cyproterone at the time in order for him to battle his acne, so his high child-like voice during his later, adult life could have been also a result of that drug.

    Dr. Conrad Murray wrote in his own book later a similar thing.

    Both of the doctors provided in their books also the possibility that the anti-male drug Cyproterone that Michael Jackson was taking castrated him.

    My stance on this issue is that Michael Jackson took Cyproterone (along with adopting a strict vegetarian diet in order to battle his acne), and that anti-male drug also caused to him a high, child-like voice in his adult life (but without being castrated, accidentally or not accidentally).

    Michael Jackson was not castrated because (as he revealed to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach) when he was married to Lisa Marie Presley she was taking birth control pills in order for her to avoid getting pregnant by him (and that was a main reason for Michael Jackson to divorce her).

    About the ‘A Chorus Line’ film, here are Michael Jackson’s own words about that:

    … I saw ‘A Chorus Line’ again and I love the part [of the cross-dressing character]. It’s dramatic, emotional and if you have any feelings at all, it has to touch you…” (Michael Jackson, 1979)

    Like I said before, Michael Jackson turned down all the film roles that he was offered at that time due to other more important priorities for him (upcomimg studio albums, concerts, etc).
    I think you have to be more careful with your theories and try not to impose your theories as facts.

    Branchereau never met Michael Jackson, he never worked for Michael Jackson, he never examined Michael Jackson's medical records.

    He just mooted what's been said about Michael since he hit his puberty without any evidence other than speculations.

    "After discussing the voice with his colleagues, including endocrinologists, Branchereau ended up with the theory of chemical castration through the synthetic anti-male hormone drug Cyproterone. (1)

    "When he was 12, Michael Jackson had acne. We know this, he spoke about it himself as a tragedy. What I think could have happened is that his people suggested this miracle treatment," the doctor said.

    Cyproterone "blocks puberty, the voice can't mature," he said, adding that he had read around 20 books on the subject, studied photographs and spoken to specialists in dermatology, voice physiology, plastic surgery, urology as well as to a former singer with the Petits Chanteurs de Sainte-Croix boys choir.

    The drug stops bodily hair and the larynx from growing and affects the bones, leaving the body with a slight frame but a large chest. (2)

    Once the treatment is finished, the patient "keeps a child's larynx all his life in a man's body," (2) said Branchereau."


    https://medicalxpress.com/news/2011-...ted-child.html

    (1) There is no official record that proves Michael took Cyproterone.

    (2) Michael had bodily hair, had a normal larynx, and he had a normal male body with normal bones.
    According to his autopsy (p. 15): https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...optimized.html

    He had a normal genital system and was still producing sperms at the age of 50.

    "An important part of my theory is this voice's exceptional character, which covers three octaves. But I haven't found any grown men's voices that cover three octaves." (1)

    Branchereau admitted that he had not contacted Jackson's family or friends for his book, "Michael Jackson, the secret of a voice," due out on March 9.

    "We will never have proof," the doctor said. "Unless his entourage says something."


    (1) Lots of famous male singers have three octaves or even more. Please.

    Murray is the doctor who killed Michael Jackson and he has no substance to his claims.

    Also, Michael never said "Lisa took birth control pills.", where did you get that from?

    And what does Michael's thoughts about a cross-dressing character prove?

    Please stop spreading these "theories" that are consisted of half-truths and your own ideas to impose your beliefs, you're doing more harm than good.

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    Cool Re: MJ's Tenor Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    Moderators, could you please delete my first, empty post (21-04-2019) in this thread?

    Thanks.

    Dr. Alain Branchereau explained in his book that the synthetic anti-male hormone drug Cyproterone blocks puberty and the voice cannot mature.

    Also, according to Dr. Alain Branchereau, Michael Jackson was taking Cyproterone at the time in order for him to battle his acne, so his high child-like voice during his later, adult life could have been also a result of that drug.

    Dr. Conrad Murray wrote in his own book later a similar thing.

    Both of the doctors provided in their books also the possibility that the anti-male drug Cyproterone that Michael Jackson was taking castrated him.

    My stance on this issue is that Michael Jackson took Cyproterone (along with adopting a strict vegetarian diet in order to battle his acne), and that anti-male drug also caused to him a high, child-like voice in his adult life (but without being castrated, accidentally or not accidentally).

    Michael Jackson was not castrated because (as he revealed to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach) when he was married to Lisa Marie Presley she was taking birth control pills in order for her to avoid getting pregnant by him (and that was a main reason for Michael Jackson to divorce her).

    About the “A Chorus Line” film, here are Michael Jackson’s own words about that:

    … I saw ‘A Chorus Line’ again and I love the part [of the cross-dressing character]. It’s dramatic, emotional and if you have any feelings at all, it has to touch you…” —— (Michael Jackson, 1979)

    Like I said before, Michael Jackson turned down all the film roles that he was offered at that time due to other more important priorities for him (upcomimg studio albums, concerts, etc).
    Again, MJFrenzy, you post nothing but nonsense, the personal opinions and speculations coming from two doctors who have absolutely NO idea what either one of them are talking about, at best, or who are outright LYING about Michael to exploit and profit off of his name (while also in the process of getting attention for themselves from the media, to boot....especially, in Conrad Murray’s case), at worst. In my opinion, the both of them were, and are, doing much more than just merely speculating/assuming what may have happened to Michael when he was a young child and during his teen years; They are LYING and slandering a man who is not here to defend himself.

    The “taking hormones”/“taking Cyproterone” story very well coincides with the ancient, old-as-dirt rumors and speculation that he was any- and everything else BUT the sort of person he and his family knew he was.

    He has said, himself —— going as far back as the Mid- to Late-1970’s, towards the end of his teens and on the brink of his young adulthood —— that he was NEVER “that way”* at all (in reference to *what is now designated as “L.G.B.T.Q.+,” more specifically, in his case, the “G.” and the “T.” in such a designation, from what he recalled some people had wrongly assumed he was, partly because of the natural sound of his voice, and not being known for his having the same behavior with women other than his wife that his father, Joseph, had; Nor was it like what his brothers had been well-known for, prior to their having married their wives, as if THAT were any of the media’s and the public’s business to have meddled in, in the first place) and didn’t want to be “linked with [a] part” that potentially would have fueled even more speculation about his actual lifestyle, and he didn’t want anyone thinking he was something he really wasn’t, because, he once said there is “a reason” that men were created Male and women were created Female.

    Michael had always thought of himself as what he genetically, physically, and biologically was; He was unquestionably an adult MALE, through and through, even though not in the stereotypical sense of how most people traditionally view “adulthood” and “manliness”/“masculinity.” He had clearly grown up and matured into adulthood as well, and took on adult responsibilities.

    Yet, he felt closer to young children (having identified much more so with them, regardless of the children’s biological birth-gender, race, cultural background, language, where they lived, or anything else “different” about each one of them), than he was to most other adults. Many of Michael’s closest friends have said of him, that he was a “child-at-heart,” basically.

    Also, to me, in my personal opinion, his voice didn’t sound as much exclusively “feminine” or even “masculine,” per sé —— NOT specifically like either one gender or the other —— as it sounded extremely “young” for his age* (*whatever his age so happened to have been, from his later-teen years to age 50). There were some aspects of Michael that never neatly fit into these old stereotypes, not simply just not fitting into them (naturally), but he DEFIED them. However, unlike what most people think, it wasn’t something that he “chose” to do, nor was this a deliberate “act” of such defiance, on his part.

    His voice was absolutely REAL, as was his adult body-size. The surgeries done on his nose and the enhancement of his chin were HIS personal and private business alone, no one else’s. He also suffered from two separate, potentially-disfiguring autoimmune disorders at the same time (Lupus and Vitiligo, while he dealt with severe injuries to his scalp as well), was teased about the size and shape of his nose by his father and brothers, and had to publicly grow up from a “cute” little ten-year-old to an adult man in front of millions/billions of people on a worldwide scale, while going through the effects of puberty/adolescence, including a severe case of teenage acne. He was extremely shy, wanted to look more “normal,” to have continued on with his career, and wanted to have been left alone.

    He got married, because, he wanted to become a father and raise his own family. THIS, in spite of even worse things done to him in 1993, long after the enormous success of “Thriller,” than anything ever done to him before, up to that point. False assumptions made regarding his lifestyle became criminal charges brought against him —— by greedy parents trying to extort money from him by getting their children to make up stories that he sexually molested them, not just in 1993, but with a different family and similar allegations in 2003 —— for crimes he NEVER committed at any time during his life.
    Last edited by GGVVGGCC22331122; 27-03-2020 at 10:09 PM.

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