MJ's Tenor Voice

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GGVVGGCC22331122;4284781 said:
Again, MJFrenzy, you post nothing but nonsense, the personal opinions and speculations coming from two doctors who have absolutely NO idea what either one of them are talking about, at best, or who are outright LYING about Michael to exploit and profit off of his name (while also in the process of getting attention for themselves from the media, to boot....especially, in Conrad Murray’s case), at worst. In my opinion, the both of them were, and are, doing much more than just merely speculating/assuming what may have happened to Michael when he was a young child and during his teen years; They are LYING and slandering a man who is not here to defend himself.

The “taking hormones”/“taking Cyproterone” story very well coincides with the ancient, old-as-dirt rumors and speculation that he was any- and everything else BUT the sort of person he and his family knew he was.

He has said, himself —— going as far back as the Mid- to Late-1970’s, towards the end of his teens and on the brink of his young adulthood —— that he was NEVER “that way”* at all (in reference to *what is now designated as “L.G.B.T.Q.+,” more specifically, in his case, the “G.” and the “T.” in such a designation, from what he recalled some people had wrongly assumed he was, partly because of the natural sound of his voice, and not being known for his having the same behavior with women other than his wife that his father, Joseph, had; Nor was it like what his brothers had been well-known for, prior to their having married their wives, as if THAT were any of the media’s and the public’s business to have meddled in, in the first place) and didn’t want to be “linked with [a] part” that potentially would have fueled even more speculation about his actual lifestyle, and he didn’t want anyone thinking he was something he really wasn’t, because, he once said there is “a reason” that men were created Male and women were created Female.

Michael had always thought of himself as what he genetically, physically, and biologically was; He was unquestionably an adult MALE, through and through, even though not in the stereotypical sense of how most people traditionally view “adulthood” and “manliness”/“masculinity.” He had clearly grown up and matured into adulthood as well, and took on adult responsibilities.

Yet, he felt closer to young children (having identified much more so with them, regardless of the children’s biological birth-gender, race, cultural background, language, where they lived, or anything else “different” about each one of them), than he was to most other adults. Many of Michael’s closest friends have said of him, that he was a “child-at-heart,” basically.

Also, to me, in my personal opinion, his voice didn’t sound as much exclusively “feminine” or even “masculine,” per sé —— NOT specifically like either one gender or the other —— as it sounded extremely “young” for his age* (*whatever his age so happened to have been, from his later-teen years to age 50). There were some aspects of Michael that never neatly fit into these old stereotypes, not simply just not fitting into them (naturally), but he DEFIED them. However, unlike what most people think, it wasn’t something that he “chose” to do, nor was this a deliberate “act” of such defiance, on his part.

His voice was absolutely REAL, as was his adult body-size. The surgeries done on his nose and the enhancement of his chin were HIS personal and private business alone, no one else’s. He also suffered from two separate, potentially-disfiguring autoimmune disorders at the same time (Lupus and Vitiligo, while he dealt with severe injuries to his scalp as well), was teased about the size and shape of his nose by his father and brothers, and had to publicly grow up from a “cute” little ten-year-old to an adult man in front of millions/billions of people on a worldwide scale, while going through the effects of puberty/adolescence, including a severe case of teenage acne. He was extremely shy, wanted to look more “normal,” to have continued on with his career, and wanted to have been left alone.

He got married, because, he wanted to become a father and raise his own family. THIS, in spite of even worse things done to him in 1993, long after the enormous success of “Thriller,” than anything ever done to him before, up to that point. False assumptions made regarding his lifestyle became criminal charges brought against him —— by greedy parents trying to extort money from him by getting their children to make up stories that he sexually molested them, not just in 1993, but with a different family and similar allegations in 2003 —— for crimes he NEVER committed at any time during his life.

Since he was a teenager, Michael Jackson wanted to fuel speculation about his sexuality and his lifestyle.

It was a decision that he intentionally took at that time and that decision was just a part of his overall philosophy about never stopping to gain public’s attention.

I will you two examples:

His long-time personal photographer Harrison Funk also stated that Michael Jackson, since he was in his late teens, liked to be fluid around gender and that he had no interest in assigning a gender to anybody.

Harrison Funk also stated that Michael Jackson was obsessed with creating an androgynous image, since he was in his late teens, which in turn would create the mystery that he so much wanted about his sexuality.

They both met at Manhattan’s Studio 54 nightclub in the late ‘70s and they started to work together for many years.

Also, in early ‘80s, Michael Jackson wrote, produced and even provided some background vocals on Diana Ross’ ‘Muscles’ song (from her 'Silk Electric' album).

He apparently wanted with that song to fuel even more speculation about his sexuality and he eventually achieved that because many people (judging by the song’s lyrics and its music video) started to speculate even more about his sexuality.

About his high, feminine-sounding voice throughout his adult life, it was not absolutely real due to several reasons that I have already mentioned here (personally I believe that this had to do also with certain female hormones that he took in his puberty).

His vocal coach Seth Riggs also told him that he had to speak in a high pitch voice in order to have a high range (meaning, he was a faking a high, speaking voice for that specific purpose of keeping a high range).

This was confirmed also by Teddy Riley who now advices the Canadian singer Justin Bieber to do the exact same thing (to speak in a high pitch voice in order to maintain a high, bubblegum range in his adult life as a singer) because that trick had already worked in Michael Jackson’s case.
 
mj_frenzy;4284847 said:
His vocal coach Seth Riggs also told him that he had to speak in a high pitch voice in order to have a high range (meaning, he was a faking a high, speaking voice for that specific purpose of keeping a high range).

Seth Riggs also said that he encouraged Michael to use his deep voice....so that contradicts itself a bit.
I don't get why you think it's so impossible for a man to have a high voice.
There are plenty of male singers (even nowadays) who have high voices. The Weeknd, Bruno Mars and even Justin Bieber.
Does that mean that all of them took female hormones when they were little? No.
It's just called being a tenor and it's not that rare.

mj_frenzy;4284847 said:
This was confirmed also by Teddy Riley who now advices the Canadian singer Justin Bieber to do the exact same thing (to speak in a high pitch voice in order to maintain a high, bubblegum range in his adult life as a singer) because that trick had already worked in Michael Jackson’s case.

Justin Bieber hasn't worked with Teddy Riley since 2010. He was only 15 at the time...so this doesn't make any sense.
 
There you go again, MJFrenzy, believing whatever nonsense, foolishness and stupid LIES you want to believe. Where you get your so-called “information” from is questionable and very highly suspect. Your “sources” are unreliable, at best (like the statements supposedly made by the men you cited in your latest comments), or greedy LIARS who want, and who actively seek/have sought, media attention of some kind or other, at worst (such as what Conrad Murray is).
 
Michael was a heterosexual man. he loved women. all his love songs was about women. his first love was diana ross. he dated women all though his life. he even married two women and had kids with 3 while the 3rd one is unknown.
 
NatureCriminal7896;4284853 said:
Michael was a heterosexual man. He loved women. ALL his love songs was about women. His first love was Diana Ross. He dated women all through his life.
He even married two women and had kids with 3, while the 3rd one is unknown.

YES, indeed, NatureCriminal!!! Michael certainly was a fully 100% heterosexual/straight MAN, when it came to women with whom he was intimately involved in personal relationships.

While I really don’t buy the story that the supposed “relationship” with Diana Ross was anything else other than and beyond a HUGE childhood crush he had on her, one that since became a friendship and her lasting influence on his career (as they were former colleagues and fellow Motown label-mates during the years that he and his brothers were part of the label’s roster of artists who recorded and performed for it, prior to the Jackson brothers’ having left to go and sign a new contract with another company, around 1975-’76, when they left Motown and signed with Epic/C.B.S.), but contrary to what many people believe —— including you, yourself —— there was no “intimate relationship” between the two of them, only a great friendship they had with one another as onetime co-workers who were signed with the same label, at one point.

As far as him (allegedly) “dating” as many women as your comment seems to imply, I seriously doubt that, just as well.
Like I had said before, Michael’s behavior towards teenage girls, and towards adult women to whom he had not been married, was NOTHING like that of his father’s and older brothers’ —— as he wasn’t known for being promiscuous, or for messing around with groupies —— as their actions towards such girls and women were. You have to consider, too, that Michael and his siblings were brought up with very strong moral beliefs, and he didn’t want to compromise or go against them; He loved their mother as well.

What is just as bad as the false LIE that he was any- and every which way BUT the heterosexual individual he was (if not even worse), is the persistent belief that he was promiscuous in his later-teen years and all throughout his adult life, which was also not true. Like I very highly doubt the claims of an alleged “intimate involvement” between Diana Ross and Michael Joseph Jackson, I doubt the credibility of other claims from women who have come out of the woodwork since he had passed, claiming to have either “dated” him or have had an “intimate relationship” with him at some point in his life, when they actually had not. “Straight” does NOT necessarily mean that a person is “promiscuous” with people of the opposite gender, in turn, one’s not being sexually promiscuous does NOT mean that one is “Gay,” “Trans,*” or anything else other than completely “Straight.” Do you get what I mean, here?

And, a few more things. Michael was married and divorced twice —— the first wife having been Lisa Marie Presley, the second one, Debbie Rowe (the mother of his two biological, mixed-race, older children, son Prince Michael and daughter Paris) —— and, biologically fathered his youngest son, “Bigi,” produced by means of an unidentified surrogate mother. This woman was never identified, to protect her privacy.
 
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lyrics

all his love songs was about women.
I'm not commenting on Mike's sexuality one way or the other, but song topics are no proof of anything. Elton John has love songs about women. He doesn't write the lyrics though. There's also the "down low" guys who marry women and have children.

Songs aren't generally about the singer's personal life. They're often fiction. A song might not even be about what it appears to be about. Rick James has a song called Mary Jane. If you take the lyrics literally, it's a song to a woman. But it's really about smoking weed. Rick is in love with marijuana. Many older songs have double entendre lyrics like that.
 
Re: lyrics

I'm not commenting on Mike's sexuality one way or the other, but song topics are no proof of anything. Elton John has love songs about women. He doesn't write the lyrics though. There's also the "down low" guys who marry women and have children.

Songs aren't generally about the singer's personal life. They're often fiction. A song might not even be about what it appears to be about. Rick James has a song called Mary Jane. If you take the lyrics literally, it's a song to a woman. But it's really about smoking weed. Rick is in love with marijuana. Many older songs have double entendre lyrics like that.

I understand what you mean but all his love songs was about women. he even said it. he even had women in his short films. but i get what you mean though.
 
What is your view of my last comments, NatureCriminal? I hope you had read them. It seems that, when it comes to discussing Michael as a topic of conversation —— especially, when that conversation veers, or delves, into topics about deeply personal and private matters concerning him —— many people seem to have difficulty making up their minds as to what they want for him to have been.

On the one hand, they imagine, perceive and speculate that he was any and every which way BUT what he and his family had known full well he always was (unquestionably MALE and “Straight,” through and through, in spite of him not fitting into outdated, old-fashioned, perceived/preconceived ideas of “adulthood,” “manhood” and “masculinity”). On the other, they correctly point out that he was “Straight,” but also negatively imply, if not outright say, that he was some sort of womanizer who would have messed around with any and every woman he ever found attractive and came across. In my opinion, he was neither one of those types of men.

As for the sound of his voice, in and of itself, I still believe that it was 100% REAL and that there was NOTHING about it that was ever “phony” or “fake.” Michael was trained in using the “Speech-Level Singing” method by Seth Riggs, who was his voice-teacher (or, “vocal consultant”) for his entire adult life, a man who knew much, much more about what his voice/vocal capabilities were than any one of us would ever know. For instance, he once said that:


“He (Michael) had a high voice, and I’ve taken it higher.”


Speaking of Michael’s Lower Register, Seth Riggs said that he could hit notes as low as “Low-Basso ‘C,’ ” which, probably no one —— that is, outside of a very few people —— has ever heard from him, as well as singing in “ ‘Ab’ above High-‘C’….and, that’s not ‘Falsetto.’ ” He also said that Michael had an extremely wide Vocal Range (at least, anywhere from to over 4 Octaves, in Seth Riggs’ own estimation), and had “held back” from showing his vocal capabilities to the fullest, which would lead most of us to believe that he could do much more with his voice than what the public would ever hear or know about.

Do you think there is something unreleased and still left in the vaults, that might give us a little bit of a clue as to Michael’s potential capabilities, and what they possibly may have been, had he not “held [himself] back” from having explored them? What is your personal opinion? I would like to know.
 
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I'm not the one for these topics but if michael claim he was a heterosexual man and his family. then he was a heterosexual man. now if michael was into guys. (which he said he wasn't.) that was his thing and his business. though due to his faith etc. that wouldn't be right for their beliefs.

Just because a man have a high voice and act somewhat feminine doesn't make him an homosexual in anyway. that's a stereotype that been giving for decades.

everyone their own person whatever they do in their life is their thing.

i always tell the truth about michael because why would i lie? i know there are fans who do this. and honestly i don't understand. they not real fans if they make up lies about michael.

yeah we tend to get our info wrong sometimes but why lie? i don't understand.


not all guys are masculinity. michael was one of them. just because he wasn't doesn't make him homosexual. see? old stereotype from the past.

also michael had brothers and a dad who pick on him not being "manly" enough. also he always listen to his mother.

i don't think there was a intimate relationship between him and diana. though at the end of the day. we wasn't there. if there was an intimate relationship then hey, that was their thing not for the public.

though p. diddy said they did and michael told him. now that might be a lie. some fans do think they did. if so then like i said that was their thing.

diana was michael first love. he even said it a bunch of times and said it in the moonwalker book. he really loved it her. he really wanted to married her. sadly diana rejected him. i feel so sad for him at the grammys 86' while walking on stage crying because she reject him. they also said michael was very mad.

his little heart was broken. i feel if diana really liked it him she should of marry him. i think in my opinion they would of been a nice couple and he probably would of had still been alive today.

i think it was due to age. while things wasn't that taboo in the 80's. marrying someone older then you was kind of taboo. unlike nowadays people 18+ are marrying people older then 30.

do i think if things were different back then to now they probably would of got married? probably. because it's more common than then.

some fans feel diana was nothing but using him,playing with him, etc. for money and fame.

i don't think that's true. i just feel she should of been honest to michael when he kept saying he loved her and wanted to married her. michael loved it her. and diana should of been honest before it got that far.

whatever or not diana had deep feelings for michael you can't deny the fact they loved each other. michael probably WAY too much. poor guy. but they loved it each other. ^_^

Michael didn't actually dated but he did had a few "girlfriends" tatum and brooke. he liked tatum and LOVED brooke. he wanted to marry brooke and adopt kids with her. sadly brooke declined because she wasn't ready for that yet and wanted to lived life. michael was also very young as well. i think he was 24 or 23. so yeah. they was young. but michael was so in a rush to get married and have kids because his brothers were and he wasn't.

michael claim every women he have some type of friendship with wasn't his type. his true love was diana all the way. but we know she rejected. ouch that gotta hurt.

funny to know some of his songs was about diana. remember the time and who is it and so many more. he really really loved her.

michael was an gentleman. he was very old fashion and also shy. not only that but his faith also played apart of it too. that was how he was raise. and i'm glad he was taught to be a gentleman and not on his brothers and dad path. his mom did an wonderful job. bless her. and bless michael.

though that's not saying during his later years he wasn't promiscuous. his music became somewhat seduced with a few songs.

he was a grown man and he did try to do things to make his fangirls "love" him.

and yeah i forgot he only married 2 times and had two kids with one and one with another unknown woman.

it's been said michael really liked lisa. sadly they marriage didn't last long because he wanted kids but she didn't because she already did.

follow by debbie who michael liked more as a friend but she was willing giving him kids. which was sweet of her.

it's sad michael didn't find his special someone. he always felt lonely and wanted to married a woman just like him. sadly he never got that. bless him. poor guy.

he also liked other woman too. but like i just said they wasn't his type. he liked them as friends. but not a lover. like tatiana and ola ray.

also Michael did flirt sometimes. he was a 100% heterosexual man. he also said he like women who was also from Brazilian and who had long legs. lol!
 
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Interesting comments from you, NatureCriminal. While I certainly do agree with a lot of your points, I strongly disagree with other things you’re saying. For instance, what you consider an “intimate relationship” between Diana Ross and Michael I would consider an enormous, gigantic, HUGE crush that he had on her ever since he was a child. So, his (supposedly) having said that he “loved” Diana Ross, and “want[ed] to marry her,” may have been a direct result of that early childhood/teenage crush.

Statements like that, from him, give me the impression that this so-called “relationship” was nothing more than —— and, nothing beyond —— someone admiring someone else who is much, much older; Whatever “feelings” Michael was alleged to have had were those of a boy/young man who had a crush on an older woman he had long admired and looked up to, even as they worked together at Motown and they became good friends. She never had any such “feelings” for Michael, however.

She also worked as a colleague with him and his brothers, as well as with other artists signed with Motown, and she was one of not only his closest and dearest friends, but also one of his biggest musical and career influences. As DuranDuran has correctly pointed out, in previous comments:


DuranDuran;4284892 said:
….Song topics are no proof of anything.

….Songs aren’t generally about the singer’s personal life. They’re often fiction. A song might not even be about what it appears to be about.

I strongly believe this to have been the case, with Michael having sung lyrics to “Remember the Time” and various other songs he sang about women. The “women” he sang about in love songs, throughout his career, were fictional/fictitious and were an overall generalization of “women” who would be “the objects of men’s affection” towards them, NOT necessarily about himself, specifically.*

(*Although, a lot of people who believe in various different theories about Michael —— and, his supposed, alleged “relationships” —— would claim that he was singing about himself, because, they desperately want to believe their fantasies they have, regarding whether or not certain “relationships” had ever existed at all [that was, beyond his merely having had a boyhood crush on a much older woman he long admired and who had a lasting influence on his life and career].)
 
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innjou;4284765 said:
I think you have to be more careful with your theories and try not to impose your theories as facts.

Branchereau never met Michael Jackson, he never worked for Michael Jackson, he never examined Michael Jackson's medical records.

He just mooted what's been said about Michael since he hit his puberty without any evidence other than speculations.

"After discussing the voice with his colleagues, including endocrinologists, Branchereau ended up with the theory of chemical castration through the synthetic anti-male hormone drug Cyproterone. (1)

"When he was 12, Michael Jackson had acne. We know this, he spoke about it himself as a tragedy. What I think could have happened is that his people suggested this miracle treatment," the doctor said.

Cyproterone "blocks puberty, the voice can't mature," he said, adding that he had read around 20 books on the subject, studied photographs and spoken to specialists in dermatology, voice physiology, plastic surgery, urology as well as to a former singer with the Petits Chanteurs de Sainte-Croix boys choir.

The drug stops bodily hair and the larynx from growing and affects the bones, leaving the body with a slight frame but a large chest. (2)

Once the treatment is finished, the patient "keeps a child's larynx all his life in a man's body," (2) said Branchereau."


https://medicalxpress.com/news/2011-03-michael-jackson-chemically-castrated-child.html

(1) There is no official record that proves Michael took Cyproterone.

(2) Michael had bodily hair, had a normal larynx, and he had a normal male body with normal bones.
According to his autopsy (p. 15): https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/251735-autopsy-0001-optimized.html


He had a normal genital system and was still producing sperms at the age of 50.

"An important part of my theory is this voice's exceptional character, which covers three octaves. But I haven't found any grown men's voices that cover three octaves." (1)

Branchereau admitted that he had not contacted Jackson's family or friends for his book, "Michael Jackson, the secret of a voice," due out on March 9.

"We will never have proof," the doctor said. "Unless his entourage says something."


(1) Lots of famous male singers have three octaves or even more. Please.

Murray is the doctor who killed Michael Jackson and he has no substance to his claims.

Also, Michael never said "Lisa took birth control pills.", where did you get that from?

And what does Michael's thoughts about a cross-dressing character prove?


Please stop spreading these "theories" that are consisted of half-truths and your own ideas to impose your beliefs, you're doing more harm than good.

His autopsy report does not really mean anything in relation to the credibility of the theory of his taking Cyproterone.

The reason is that any side-effects of the Cyproterone drug (like, absence or less bodily hair, abnormal larynx, abnormal male body with abnormal bones) may or may not occur in the patient’s body, and even if they once occurred during the use of that drug, these side-effects certainly tend to disappear (or disappear completely) when one stops taking that drug.

I am not trying to impose the Cyproterone theory (or any other theory that claims that he took female hormones in his puberty) to anyone.

It is just a theory that I personally believe it to be true about him (or, at least I cannot blindly dismiss it).

Michael Jackson confided in Rabbi Shmuley Boteach (in 2000-2001) that when he was married to Lisa Marie Presley, although she told him that she wanted to have biological children with him, at the same time she was, unbeknown to him, taking birth control pills because in fact she did not want to have biological children with him.

Michael Jackson wanted to have biological children with her, and when he found out that she was secretly taking those pills, he decided to file for divorce.

Michael Jackson’s thoughts about loving the nature of the cross-dressing character (of the ‘A Chorus Line’ film) prove that he actually wanted to play that character without really caring about what people might say about him.

GGVVGGCC22331122;4284852 said:
There you go again, MJFrenzy, believing whatever nonsense, foolishness and stupid LIES you want to believe. Where you get your so-called “information” from is questionable and very highly suspect. Your “sources” are unreliable, at best (like the statements supposedly made by the men you cited in your latest comments), or greedy LIARS who want, and who actively seek/have sought, media attention of some kind or other, at worst (such as what Conrad Murray is).

GGVVGGCC22331122, it is true that Dr. Alain Branchereau never met Michael Jackson personally, nor did he examine him.

But since you also never met Michael Jackson personally, nor did you examine him, I cannot see why your assertions about Michael Jackson have to have more weight over Dr. Alain Branchereau’s ones.

And as I said to you earlier, you keep having a fantasy idea of Michael Jackson in all of your posts, which although it is not necessarily a bad thing, it certainly blurs your clear judgement about him.
 
mj_frenzy;4284932 said:
Michael Jackson’s thoughts about loving the nature of the cross-dressing character (of the ‘A Chorus Line’ film) prove that he actually wanted to play that character without really caring about what people might say about him.


From the recorded conversations with Shmuley Boteach in 2001, were Michael recalls one of his dates with Madonna:

"Madonna laid the law down to me before we went out. [She said] I am not going to Disneyland, OK? That's out," Jackson said. "I said, 'I didn't ask to go to Disneyland.' She said, 'We are going to the restaurant. And afterwards, we are going to a strip bar.'

"I said, 'I am not going to a strip bar, where they cross dress. ... I am not going to there. If that's how it is, forget this whole thing. ... Afterwards, she wrote some mean things about me in the press. And I wrote that she is a nasty witch, after I was so kind to her," Jackson said.


https://edition.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/09/30/lkl.michael.jackson.tapes/index.html


So, Sherlock, what does this "prove" then?




mj_frenzy;4284932 said:
It is just a theory that I personally believe it to be true about him.

At last...
 
I'm locking this thread. It's descended into a mess of disrespectful speculation and pointless regurgitation of the opinions of untrustworthy sources. This forum is not a tabloid.
 
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