Forensic Files

jilliebean

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Have any of you watched this show before? I caught the end of one the other day and it was about someone in the medical field who used propofol to murder someone. They of course tried to hide it. I only saw the last few minutes of the show, so I don't know how similar it was to Michael, but the guy who committed the crime was charged and convicted for first degree murder.

Did anyone see this? It seemed as though it was somewhat similar because they said that the girl must have trusted him to give her pain meds or something. I don't understand Murray's charges. I mean I do, because I know murder is hard to prove, but to me it is obvious at this point that this was not an accident.
 
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Re: Foresic Files

Forensic Files is on Tru TV the episode is Needle in a Haystack, but you can't see the whole episode on their website so maybe it will be on tv again soon.

I spelled Forensic wrong in my title, but I don't know how to change it. sorry.
 
I couldn't find it on youtube. If you find it post the link please. I only saw the end and I really would like to see what it was all about. I'm going to keep an eye out for it now that I know the title.
 
Is this the nurse in Florida who murdered the woman he was intetested in? They highlighted that one on Dateline in 2009
 
I hope they show that episode here..sounds interesting...
 
Is this the nurse in Florida who murdered the woman he was intetested in? They highlighted that one on Dateline in 2009

It might be, because he did work in the medical field and it was a woman that was murdered. The dateline story, was it similar to what happened to Michael?
 
Found this trying to google the episode today:

http://www.michaeljackson.com/cn/node/223434

I also found on a tv guide site, that there is an upcoming airing of this episode June 12th (Sunday) at 2 am (great) on Tru TV. If anyone is interested. I just want to see what is different in this case, that this man can be charged and convicted of first degree murder. I wonder if there is a way to look up the case and get more info than what the show will provide. I believe this show is based on true events.

http://www.tvguide.com/detail/tv-show.aspx?tvobjectid=198047&more=ucepisodelist&episodeid=12274122
 
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I just want to see what is different in this case, that this man can be charged and convicted of first degree murder.
motive i presume. think i remember this episode or the story been mentioned ages back .and there been a history between the two
 
Yes I agree there was intent, motive and a straight injection of a high dose knowing that the only outcome would be death.
In most these other cases a Motive and intent to kill has been established and thats the difference.
 
Found this trying to google the episode today:

http://www.michaeljackson.com/cn/node/223434

I also found on a tv guide site, that there is an upcoming airing of this episode June 12th (Sunday) at 2 am (great) on Tru TV. If anyone is interested. I just want to see what is different in this case, that this man can be charged and convicted of first degree murder. I wonder if there is a way to look up the case and get more info than what the show will provide. I believe this show is based on true events.

http://www.tvguide.com/detail/tv-show.aspx?tvobjectid=198047&more=ucepisodelist&episodeid=12274122

On the website there is only a short video: http://www.forensicfiles.com/needle-in-a-haystack.html
 
qbee, it can be VERY easy to hide motive. Do you know how many murders are out there in the world without any motive? You'll find many. Are you familiar with the Clutter family murder? It's one of the most documented murders in history where there was NO APPARENT MOTIVE, and almost NO CLUES. It had less clues than this CM case.

jilliebean, I used to watch that show. There's some crazy stories on it. On one episode, a doctor faked his blood DNA test three times with other physicians giving him the test, and witnesses standing right beside him. He would have gotten away if the victim hadn't pressured the police to keep looking at him.

“When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” - c. doyle
 
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kasume;3398799 said:
qbee, it can be VERY easy to hide motive. Do you know how many murders are out there in the world without any motive? You'll find many. Are you familiar with the Clutter family murder? It's one of the most documented murders in history where there was NO APPARENT MOTIVE, and almost NO CLUES. It had less clues than this CM case.

jilliebean, I used to watch that show. There's some crazy stories on it. On one episode, a doctor faked his blood DNA test three times with other physicians giving him the test, and witnesses standing right beside him. He would have gotten away if the victim hadn't pressured the police to keep looking at him.

“When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” - c. doyle

I think that there definitely could be plenty of reasons Murray wanted Michael dead I just hope the investigators are digging, but I have my doubts. I think whoever introduced Murray to Michael is very relevant, someone convinced Michael that Murray was a good doctor. Of course when first degree murder is committed there is always motive, but sometimes it is hard to find =(


qbee;3398605 said:
Yes I agree there was intent, motive and a straight injection of a high dose knowing that the only outcome would be death.
In most these other cases a Motive and intent to kill has been established and thats the difference.

Do you happen to remember what the motives were in any of the other cases involving propofol?
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj3MfUR35CM

[video=youtube;mj3MfUR35CM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj3MfUR35CM[/video]

"Cry"
by R. Kelly and Michael Jackson

Somebody shakes when the wind blows
Somebody’s missing a friend (Hold on)
Somebody’s lacking a hero
And they have not a clue when it’s all gonna end again

Stories buried and untold
Someone is hiding the truth (Hold on)
When will this mystery unfold
And will the sun ever shine
In the blind mans eyes when he cries

You can change the world (I can’t do it by myself)
You can touch the sky (It’s gonna take somebody’s help)
You’re the chosen one (I’m gonna need some kind of sign)
If we all cry at the same time tonight

If people laugh when they’re feeling sad
Someone is taking a life (Hold on)
Respect to believe in your dreams
So tell me where were you
When your children cried last night

Faces filled with madness
Miracles unheard of (Hold on)
Faith is found in the winds
All we have to do is to reach for the truth, the truth

You can change the world (I can’t do it by myself)
You can touch the sky (It’s gonna take somebody’s help)
You’re the chosen one (I’m gonna need some kind of sign)
If we all cry at the same time tonight

And when that flag glows there’ll be no more wars
And when all cause I will answer all your prayers (Prayers)
Show the world…

You can change the world (I can’t do it by myself)
You can touch the sky (It’s gonna take somebody’s help)
You’re the chosen one (I’m gonna need some kind of sign)
If we all cry at the same time tonight
 
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You don't always need to show motive and cases have been won for first degree murder without it. Its up to the prosecutor to believe in the case and need for justice
 
It might be, because he did work in the medical field and it was a woman that was murdered. The dateline story, was it similar to what happened to Michael?
I don't remember all of the details now but I know the woman did not know she was being injected with propofol. I personally believe that on June 25th MJ didn't know either.
 
The justice system isnt about the truth its about what u can prove. Ppl can have ideas and theories/opinions but without evidence it makes them irrelevent and no use in a court of law.
 
jilliebean;3397930 said:
Did anyone see this? It seemed as though it was somewhat similar because they said that the girl must have trusted him to give her pain meds or something. I don't understand Murray's charges. I mean I do, because I know murder is hard to prove, but to me it is obvious at this point that this was not an accident.

I haven't watched it, but I have read about the case, the first reported case of murder with propofol. In fact, its similarities with Murray's case have been discussed. In my opinion one of the most outstanding resemblance is that in both cases medical evidence used was far from the victim, I mean the victim could not have put it away and then come back to bed... and Murray hid med. evidence and sort of prepared the scene (no other explanation for what Alberto Álvarez described - IV bag with a slit and a bottle of propofol upside down inside almost empty, with NO large tube OR for the "separated" syringe...).

Here you can read more about the case: http://www.anesthesia-analgesia.org/content/108/4/1182.full

"A 24-yr-old woman was found dead in her home from apparent propofol “toxicity.” Her blood level of propofol was 4.3 μg/mL. She had no history of drug abuse and no evidence of such behavior at autopsy. The medical examiner and police investigators felt that she died from probable homicide. Attention was focused on a male registered nurse acquaintance, who had acquired propofol and other drugs in the course of his regular duties in a surgical intensive care unit. This is the first reported case of murder with propofol.

A 24-yr-old, 5′5 in., 138 pound female was found dead in her house near Gainesville, Florida by police detectives and fire rescue personnel on November 10, 2005. Numerous items, including syringes, needles, and two empty 20 mL vials of 1% propofol (10 mg/mL), were found in grocery store bags lying on the ground adjacent to garbage cans outside the house. After the initial crime scene investigation, an autopsy was performed. (...)
Laboratory analysis revealed a blood propofol concentration of 4.3 μg/mL. This value is within the range of blood propofol concentrations (1.3–6.8 μg/mL) after a bolus induction dose of 2.5 mg/kg of body weight. The medical examiner ruled that the manner of death was homicide. She noted that the fatal dose of propofol was administered by someone with skill in IV injections.
Follow-up investigation of the propofol national drug code lot numbers on the bottles at the crime scene revealed the drug had been obtained from an automated Omnicell® dispenser (Omnicell Headquarters, 1201 Charleston Road, Mountain View, CA) by a male registered nurse who worked in the surgical intensive care of Shands Hospital at the University of Florida. The most recent propofol had been dispensed to him on November 3, 2005. On or about the day of her death (between November 8 and 9, 2005), he left the area, subsequently went briefly to Georgia on approximately November 24, 2005, and ultimately flew to Ireland on November 29, 2005.
After further investigation, a second degree murder warrant was issued for the suspect on January 24, 2006. In June 2006, he was apprehended in the West African Republic of Senegal. On October 16, 2006, he was transported to the Alachua County Department of the Jail by the United States Marshall’s Service, and on November 29, 2007, the prior indictment for second degree murder was upgraded to first degree murder. Trial commenced on May 19, 2008. On May 23, he was found guilty of first degree murder and was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole."
 
I don't remember all of the details now but I know the woman did not know she was being injected with propofol. I personally believe that on June 25th MJ didn't know either.

I don't think Michael knew either.

The justice system isnt about the truth its about what u can prove. Ppl can have ideas and theories/opinions but without evidence it makes them irrelevent and no use in a court of law.

Sad but true, except that there are plenty of cases without important key evidence that have gotten a conviction. Murder cases without the body or murder weapon - that is huge. I guess with Murray they want to make sure they get him for something, and they are playing it safe. I personally think that if what we know is true, it is enough to charge him with second and maybe even first degree, but if he walks everyone (fans) will be pissed, so like I said they are probably playing it safe unless they come across some really damaging evidence. Makes me sad for Michael and his children :(
 
Also from the same link:

"In the case we presented, the investigation concluded that, in this case, there was no way the victim could have self-injected 400 mg of propofol, gathered all the drug vials and injection paraphernalia into garbage bags which were then tied, walked outside to dispose of the materials, come back inside and then collapsed on her bed. Thus, another person or persons had to be present, had to administer the propofol, and had to clean up the crime scene before leaving."
 
"In the case we presented, the investigation concluded that, in this case, there was no way the victim could have self-injected 400 mg of propofol, gathered all the drug vials and injection paraphernalia into garbage bags which were then tied, walked outside to dispose of the materials, come back inside and then collapsed on her bed. Thus, another person or persons had to be present, had to administer the propofol, and had to clean up the crime scene before leaving."

Thank you for the link. They don't really give much detail on the relationship between the two people or the motive, but they refer to him as an acquaintance.

I think from what I've heard so far it does sound like Michael's case, I hope they find enough proof to change the charge. I for one think 4 yrs, is basically getting nothing anyway, so I would charge him with more and take my chances, but that's just me.
 
Also from the same link:

"In the case we presented, the investigation concluded that, in this case, there was no way the victim could have self-injected 400 mg of propofol, gathered all the drug vials and injection paraphernalia into garbage bags which were then tied, walked outside to dispose of the materials, come back inside and then collapsed on her bed. Thus, another person or persons had to be present, had to administer the propofol, and had to clean up the crime scene before leaving."

Where did this 400 mg of prop. come from? The prelim?
 
Also from the same link:
"In the case we presented, the investigation concluded that, in this case, there was no way the victim could have self-injected 400 mg of propofol, gathered all the drug vials and injection paraphernalia into garbage bags which were then tied, walked outside to dispose of the materials, come back inside and then collapsed on her bed. Thus, another person or persons had to be present, had to administer the propofol, and had to clean up the crime scene before leaving."

Where did this 400 mg of prop. come from? The prelim?

No that isnt from Prelim or Murray case
It is a addressing another case where a man injected a woman friend of his. This amount doesnt
refer to MJ or Murray case . It was a similar case brought up in this thread
 
Thank you for the link. They don't really give much detail on the relationship between the two people or the motive, but they refer to him as an acquaintance.
yeah which is annoying. id like to know why it was deemed to be murder 2 and one. obviously him doing a runner doesnt help and presumably he didnt claim he was treating her so that adds to the suspicion of murder. what had gone on between the two would five us a good idea to motive etc
 
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