surveillance tapes (all threads merged)

[bluetopez]

Murray left the room and he admited he gave MJ Propofol. So I don't know what other proof anyone else needs to see guilt, when the Doc admitted given MJ the very thing that killed him. The surveillance tape will show nothing IMO because it doesn't show the room MJ was in when he passed.

 

[xthunderx2]

ok lets try this...imo..those tapes have been tampered with they were erased..so I doubt that they will show anything BUT the few minutes that the police say shows nothing. We all know that Michael's room wasn't surveillanced....therefore the only thing we are gonna have to go on as to what happened to Michael is..1. Murray's lies...or 2. Those tapes....and neither one is reliable...so the truth about what happened to Michael ..died with Michael. We will have to wait and see what happens at the trial. Also..WHY my other post was deleted is beyond me.,,,every bit of that post had to do with those tapes. There was no conspiracy talk involved in it...I know conspiracy talk goes in that section of the forum...so deleting posts for nothing is wrong.

 

[qbee]

ok lets try this...imo..those tapes have been tampered with they were erased..so I doubt that they will show anything BUT the few minutes that the police say shows nothing. We all know that Michael's room wasn't surveillanced....therefore the only thing we are gonna have to go on as to what happened to Michael is..1. Murray's lies...or 2. Those tapes....and neither one is reliable...so the truth about what happened to Michael ..died with Michael. We will have to wait and see what happens at the trial.

Murray left the room and he admited he gave MJ Propofol. So I don't know what other proof anyone else needs to see guilt, when the Doc admitted given MJ the very thing that killed him. The surveillance tape will show nothing IMO because it doesn't show the room MJ was in when he passed.

Yes we are not going to see what happened in that room becuase Michael didnt tape his personal space or his bedroom.
Murray Already admitted to giving Michael the propoful and leaving the room. so why is anyone questioning that fact.

It is stated the only security cameras were outside. We have the testimony of all who were present there and they dont mention anyone esle coming or going. That is the evidence we have so far .. all the rest is speculation not based on any facts that have been presented so far .. We have to rely on the testimony of those who were present.

I would like to know what happened to the tapes but we dont have all the evidence of what happened to them yet. But the fact they didnt get the record of all 24 hours doesnt prove conspiracy or negate the testimony of Murray himself and and all who were there ..

 

[QuirkyDiana00]

Of that within a day or two
The issue is that apparently the security surveillance footage or the surveillance system was not the property of owned by Michael Jackson or any of his associates. It was a rental home, and the equipment and installation and everything was done by the homeowner that rented this home. So LABD has been working on that . As I indicated, I expect to have information for the defence probably by tomorrow.
The court: Again, I would have thought this information have been disclosed a long, long time ago.
Mr.Walgren: It was, your honor. It was disclosed a year ago.
The court: we are talking about what was downloaded, but what about the raw materials that were in possession of the third party? Are they still in the possession of the third party?
Mr.Walgren: I don’t believe so. I don’t believe they exist anywhere, but I had LAPD look into further so I could give a more concrete answer.
The court: so you will have that information when?
Mr.Walgern: I expect to have it tomorrow.
The court : By 4:00p.m tomorrow provide the information to Mr.Flangan. If there is some issue, then we will have to regroup sooner because Mr.Flangan has made it very clear this is very important information as far as he is concerned. If it exists, it exists.
Mr.Flangan : It could be important. We don’t know. We have not seen it.
The court: well, you want it and it is not in your possession. Mr.Walgern?
Mr.Walgern: And it is not in our possession. I have told them that for the last year that they have everything that exists. I’m looking into it further, not because I think it is going to necessarily result in anything but just so I could give more concrete answers. My understanding is LAPD downloaded what they downloaded. That has been provided to the defense. That’s everything that exists and is all that will ever exist, but I’m having them look into it further.
The court: the security system apparently was monitoring the residence on a 24-hour basis.
Mr.Walgern: the exterior.
The court: the exterior. How many minutes or hours worth of video has been downloaded? D we know?
Mr.Walgern: Again , I don’t know exactly but it is minutes. It is minutes . I don’t want to say anything that is inaccurate. I expect to have information tomorrow....

So anyway, back to discussing the evidence in front of us rather than who is right or wrong with their opinions.

What i got from the above is this - it's unclear whether MJ actually ordered and installed any surveillance equipment while he was in the house. 'The homeowner that rented this home' is presumably Herbert Guez, the chief executive of U.S. clothing company Ed Hardy. Walgren states that MJ did not own whatever surveillance equip was in place, that it was owned by the homeowner.

Walgren makes the following comment, '...the equipment and installation and everything was done by the homeowner that rented this home'. This comment does not make it clear whether MJ was using the surveillance equip that already existed at the house (put in by the owner), or if MJ asked the owner to install any surveillance equip of MJ's choosing. If MJ did the latter, he would have to get permission presumably from the owner since MJ was only renting. In which case, the surveillance equip/footage might not technically be owned by MJ. So for me that statement doesn't clarify anything. It suggests the action of installing any equipment was done by the homeowner but it does not say on whose request. Neither does it say who paid for it. If AEG paid for it, it's likely that MJ requested his own surveillance equip to be installed at the house. These are just questions that need clarifying so we have the straight facts.

Whatever the issue is, it's taking a long time to get some simple facts on this footage. Even Judge Pastor is exasperated.

 

[Diplomate]

Murray left the room and he admited he gave MJ Propofol. So I don't know what other proof anyone else needs to see guilt, when the Doc admitted given MJ the very thing that killed him. The surveillance tape will show nothing IMO because it doesn't show the room MJ was in when he passed.

Exactly!

 

[soulmum]

Just hope Murray's defense isn't going with the theory that MJ was killed by 'another' while the doc was out of the room. Any surveiilance footage which has gone missing might have shown another person entering the property? I am with the majority though, if Murray had not left Michael alone he would still have been with us.

 

[Ingelief]

so if i understand it correctly there are tapes now? with footage a mean? i thought they were eraised?

 

[QuirkyDiana00]

so if i understand it correctly there are tapes now? with footage a mean? i thought they were eraised?

Yes there is footage, but i think it's safe to say right now that we know nothing else for sure on that matter. We will know eventually.

 

[StacyJ]

did Murray research propofol at all?? did he read what the standard of care was for administering it?

 

[Just4Mike61]

did Murray research propofol at all?? did he read what the standard of care was for administering it?[/QUOTE]

He may have tried to, but the directions for use were blurred with $$$$ signs in his eyes.

 

[kasume]

deleted

 

[elusive moonwalker]

so if i understand it correctly there are tapes now? with footage a mean? i thought they were eraised?

There was always tapes.this is why conspiracy talk should be kept out of the case forum.it confuses ppl.and leads to the facts getting twisted.

 

[8701girl]

Murray Already admitted to giving Michael the propoful and leaving the room. so why is anyone questioning that fact.

Just hope Murray's defense isn't going with the theory that MJ was killed by 'another' while the doc was out of the room.

I was just about to say that and yes ur right, the is a possibilty they will say that.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Its one of their many defences.thats why they are trying to imply things about missing tapes.

The noi did it the bodyguards did it.some random person walked in a did it.or mj did it.only such B.S could happen to mj.and only such B.S would be believed by others cause its mj.

 

[Maria MJ]

If the tapes are not missing, then they can be produced in court. Point is, if the house was wired only on the outside as we know, anyone could walk in but not end up in MJ's room. So how defense hope to prove the "someone else did it" or to put it correctly "Murray didn't do it" thing is beyond my mind. MJ was killed and he did not do it himself. There's a victim so there has to be a killer.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Give it a break kaymon with your sanctamonious rubbish.u loved moaning at mj every chance u got. And it doest stop now does it .u think mj knew murrray was such an idiot as hes turned out to be.u think if he knew that he would have had him around his kids and let him treat him.he hired a dr to protect him and treat him so dont u bring this back on mj.taking diprivan alone at home? What u on about.he hired a dr.u talk as if mj was sat at home in a empty house shooting up. Once again u wanna blame mj and this time blame him for all the stupid defences that murray gas come up with.how the hell is that mjs fault.please dont act like u give a dam because all u have ever done is blame mj for everything that happened to him.how perfect u must be

and how do u know mj didnt try and get help
for his insomnia.didnt try loads of things.u
dont do u.maybe if he didnt have moaning fans like u who critized him for spending to much time with his kids instead of working he
wouldnt have felt so much pressure to please ppl like u.

 

[QuirkyDiana00]

If the tapes are not missing, then they can be produced in court. Point is, if the house was wired only on the outside as we know, anyone could walk in but not end up in MJ's room. So how defense hope to prove the "someone else did it" or to put it correctly "Murray didn't do it" thing is beyond my mind. MJ was killed and he did not do it himself. There's a victim so there has to be a killer.

I'm not sure what you mean by that.....if someone can get into the house (and we don't know fully how accessible MJ's house was, with or without security), why is it not possible for someone to go up the staircase and into MJ's room? The staircase was a few steps from the front door. Also, there could be other points of entry such as the garage area on the left side of the house which was directly below MJ's room. Unless we know the house inside out, it's hard to determine what could be possible.

We do need more information about the cameras and the footage, so that other lines of enquiry can be ruled out. There was a report very early on after MJ died that one of the cameras was not working/broken. The speculation can stop when we finally get some facts on these issues. It's like getting blood out of a stone, which should not be the case if this is straightforward. Even the prosecution in March of this year was not sure of details regarding footage, which i thought was laughable at this late stage. At best it's unprofessional and slack, at worst it's deliberate concealment and tampering of evidence.

 

[Victory22]

Perhaps i should have been a little clearer in what i meant by 'i don't know if Murray is guilty or not'. Yes he brought Propofol into a home setting with the intention of using it for insomnia. Yes he did not have adequate monitoring equipment for such a medical procedure. Yes, it appears that he was not watching his patient - where he was i do not know. Murray is guilty of a lot of things. What i am not sure is whether he actually administered the propofol that morning. Until i hear more evidence, i will leave that door open (my prerogative).

I don't ask that you agree with me, just don't condemn me for my opinions. I have pretty balanced views really. Anyway, it would be a shame to clog up this thread with arguments over which opinions are correct. That's not what this thread is for. I hope that clarifies things. I'm sure the jurors will do their job well and fairly, and i can personally assure you that my intellect is intact.

Murray told the police in his formal statement that he administered Propofol to Michael that morning.

 

[Victory22]

I'm not sure what you mean by that.....if someone can get into the house (and we don't know fully how accessible MJ's house was, with or without security), why is it not possible for someone to go up the staircase and into MJ's room? The staircase was a few steps from the front door. Also, there could be other points of entry such as the garage area on the left side of the house which was directly below MJ's room. Unless we know the house inside out, it's hard to determine what could be possible.

We do need more information about the cameras and the footage, so that other lines of enquiry can be ruled out. There was a report very early on after MJ died that one of the cameras was not working/broken. The speculation can stop when we finally get some facts on these issues. It's like getting blood out of a stone, which should not be the case if this is straightforward. Even the prosecution in March of this year was not sure of details regarding footage, which i thought was laughable at this late stage. At best it's unprofessional and slack, at worst it's deliberate concealment and tampering of evidence.

To me it’s a pretty big stretch to believe a person got passed Michaels security force and entered his home without being detected. If they did then they would have to know the layout of the inside of the home find Michael’s room and have the medical skill to administer a lethal dose of Propofol without being seen by Murray. They would then have to escape without being seen.

 

[qbee]

^^
A voice of reason

 

[QuirkyDiana00]

To me it’s a pretty big stretch to believe a person got passed Michaels security force and entered his home without being detected. If they did then they would have to know the layout of the inside of the home find Michael’s room and have the medical skill to administer a lethal dose of Propofol without being seen by Murray. They would then have to escape without being seen.

That's if MJ's security personnel are who they say they are. Wouldn't you want to check out these people, just in case things are not what they seem? It's always a possibility unless you can firmly rule it out. We don't actually know where Murray was. I'm sure there are people that were in MJ's employment that knew the layout of the house. I don't think we can discount that. Michael Amir Williams had been inside MJ's room on a number of occasions. I think Faheem had been up there also. It's not difficult to impart a little knowledge. I'm not trying to point fingers, i just think that these lines of enquiry can't be disregarded. The medical skill to administer propofol is quite minimal. You just draw up the fluid and inject it into the port.

 

[Victory22]

That's if MJ's security personnel are who they say they are. Wouldn't you want to check out these people, just in case things are not what they seem? It's always a possibility unless you can firmly rule it out. We don't actually know where Murray was. I'm sure there are people that were in MJ's employment that knew the layout of the house. I don't think we can discount that. Michael Amir Williams had been inside MJ's room on a number of occasions. I think Faheem had been up there also. It's not difficult to impart a little knowledge. I'm not trying to point fingers, i just think that these lines of enquiry can't be disregarded. The medical skill to administer propofol is quite minimal. You just draw up the fluid and inject it into the port.

From the amount of Propofol that was found in Michael's system they would have had to draw up several syringes of the drug and inject them into the port. That takes time.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

personally i think it was the vicar with the candlestick in the libary

 

[QuirkyDiana00]

From the amount of Propofol that was found in Michael's system they would have had to draw up several syringes of the drug and inject them into the port. That takes time.

Do we have an authoritative opinion on how much propofol was in MJ's system? I appreciate that the syringe capacity was 10ml, but you can actually fill a syringe that size up to 12ml (120mg). Has it been stated in court by a medical professional what the estimated volume of propofol was that was administered to MJ?

 

[Victory22]

Do we have an authoritative opinion on how much propofol was in MJ's system? I appreciate that the syringe capacity was 10ml, but you can actually fill a syringe that size up to 12ml (120mg). Has it been stated in court by a medical professional what the estimated volume of propofol was that was administered to MJ?

I don't know what the actual amount found was but MJ had so much in his system it was detected in the fluid of his eyes! It was a massive amount even after Murray waited possibly hours before calling for help.

 

[smoothlugar]

personally i think it was the vicar with the candlestick in the libary

:yes:rder

I appreciate that the syringe capacity was 10ml, but you can actually fill a syringe that size up to 12ml (120mg).

No way. You have to take into account the lidocaine detected in syringes.

it's taking a long time to get some simple facts on this footage. Even Judge Pastor is exasperated.

Don't forget that quote was from 9th March and that Walgren said he would provide more complete answers the following day... What was reported by fans in the court about the cameras being "motion sensitive" must appear in the transcripts of the following status hearings. I suppose some fans will have bought them...

 

[kasume]

To me it’s a pretty big stretch to believe a person got passed Michaels security force and entered his home without being detected. If they did then they would have to know the layout of the inside of the home find Michael’s room and have the medical skill to administer a lethal dose of Propofol without being seen by Murray. They would then have to escape without being seen.

It's not a big stretch once you look at the entire picture. Probably didn't even need to get pass the guards undetected. Who knows? That scenario could be only half true or partly true.

 

[ivy]

To me it’s a pretty big stretch to believe a person got passed Michaels security force and entered his home without being detected. If they did then they would have to know the layout of the inside of the home find Michael’s room and have the medical skill to administer a lethal dose of Propofol without being seen by Murray. They would then have to escape without being seen.

It's not a big stretch once you look at the entire picture. Probably didn't even need to get pass the guards undetected. Who knows? That scenario could be only half true or partly true.

I would call it stretch as Michael's homicide happened in the morning hours that the children were awake and in the house in the ground floor. How did this person able to get pass them?

 

[Victory22]

It's not a big stretch once you look at the entire picture. Probably didn't even need to get pass the guards undetected. Who knows? That scenario could be only half true or partly true.

As I stated before I do not have an exact amount of Propofol that was founds in MJ's body but it was a masive amount and much more then would have been drawn up from a single syringe. The cause of Michael’s death was Propofol intoxication and massive amounts of it were found throughout his vital organs, body fluids and tissue.

 

[kasume]

I would call it stretch as Michael's homicide happened in the morning hours that the children were awake and in the house in the ground floor. How did this person able to get pass them?

As I said, only part of the scenario may be true.

I'm not saying that one person was able to get past, or any number. Murray could have been upstairs alone all the time. Would seem extremely odd though. But it's possible.

I'm just saying, It's not entirely impossible to get pass those gates also. I won't get into detail about that.