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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Just a thought for the forensic analyst..

With today's technology I'm sure it's possible to alter the frequency of a certain voice for it to 'register' as a complete different person. So in other words even having the ability to alter the frequency of *insert random voice* for example, then when it's 'analyzed' it registers as Michael Jacksons voice..The person who analyzed the Cascio tracks may not really be too familiar with Michael's voice enough to understand it's intricacies and it may have been simply comparing side by side vocal registeries/frequencies with a bunch of songs.

So I think it's either a case of

1. It's actually Michael but it's been completely distorted.

2. The Cascios manipulated the voice so that it registers as Michael and therefore fooled the analyst and all the 'experts' they brought in.

3. The vocal analyst and everyone who say it's him were told to say its him when they know it's not.

Thoughts? :)
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
1. The claim that the musicologists are absolutely sure that it is MJ's voice.

FALSE/TWISTED INFORMATION!

Firstly, the musicologists deal more with copyright than with voice recognition.
Secondly, no musicologist can ever be absolutely sure about voice recognition.
Thirdly, neither the Estate nor SONY Music hired any forensic audio experts who are actually specialized in voice recognition, yet they are sure it is Michael!
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I just want to expand a little more on the point your raised. I've had an interesting discussion at MaxJax on this topic in the past few weeks.

First, Bumper is right. Musicologists majorly work on copyright infringement cases. They are rarely hired to do SINGER VOICE RECOGNITION.

Second, let's distinguish the difference between speech recognition and singing recognition. While there are decades of research on speech recognition, relatively limited resources have been spent on singing voice recognition. Why? It's unlikely that murderers, terrorists and rapists would sing when committing crimes. Although the principles in speech recognition and singing recognition are similar (both have to do with human anatomy), singing voice recognition is much more challenging. Singing is much more dynamic than speaking.

Third, the quality of samples that the musicologists or audiologists need to perform their analysis have to be CLEAN vocals sans processing, preferrably a cappella vocals recorded in a controlled environment (sound proof studio). Most commercial recordings cannot be used becuase processing, such as reverbaration, autotuning can alter the vocals tremendously.

Forth, there is still a long way to go in voice recognition technology.

Because of the above reasons, it's hard for me to determine the realibility of the tests performed by the musicologists hired by Sony.

First, were high quality clean solo vocals given to the musicologists? If so, where are those recordings now? Why they claimed the tapes are destroyed?

Second, what are the benchmarks? Were the musicologists given a good amount of clean Michael Jackson solo recordings for them to compare?

Bottomeline: The tests performed by the musicologists do not give absolute assurance. I wonder how many people changed their minds thinking the tests performed are highly reliable.
 
Tsukiji said:
1. It's actually Michael but it's been completely distorted.
Click to expand...

Distorted vocals cannot be used. Testing distorted vocals is inconclusive.

Tsukiji said:
2. The Cascios manipulated the voice so that it registers as Michael and therefore fooled the analyst and all the 'experts' they brought in.
Click to expand...

Well, the experts, such as Bruce Swedien, might be fooled. But again, I still cannot be convinced that a scientific test on manipulated vocals is valid.

Tsukiji said:
3. The vocal analyst and everyone who say it's him were told to say its him when they know it's not.
Click to expand...

I really hope this is not the case. I know we live in an imperfect world. But, I still hope not everyone is corrupted. I hope the word "integrity" still carries some weight.
 
love is magical said:
Distorted vocals cannot be used. Testing distorted vocals is inconclusive.
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I agree...Besides, the vocals don't really sound distorted, they kinda just sound like a different person..lol.

love is magical said:
Well, the experts, such as Bruce Swedien, might be fooled. But again, I still cannot be convinced that a scientific test on manipulated vocals is valid.
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When I say manipulated I mean if that the Cascio's had someone else sing those songs, in this case a person who does impersonations of his voice then they alter it so that if someone were to do an official 'test' and it would register as Michael's..So like, people listen to the songs and may go "This sounds strange..but the vocal test says it's him so let's put these on."..With today's technology I'd think that they'd be able to manipulate certain perimeters of your own voice so that it when someone tests it, it comes up as Michael Jackson.


love is magical said:
I really hope this is not the case. I know we live in an imperfect world. But, I still hope not everyone is corrupted. I hope the word "integrity" still carries some weight.
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I hope it's not the case either, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if there is pure deception among all of them..With Michael it's happened so many times that it really is nothing new is it? =\

Arklove said:
Well, I found it interesting that the 'aoooowwww' was the only vocal we heard (which happened to be genuine) in that teaser...It put a lot of false faith in fans....How disgusting..
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One of the first things I remember someone saying in the chat when we listened to the teaser was.. "Why didn't they preview any singing?" ..IMO The teaser was part of the psychological attempt of putting faith into fans as you say..
 
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Discussion has been gone at Max-Jax for days now, this forum has been down.

What's up everybody?

Anyone still interested in this whatsoever?

I found the "why" and "me" from Invincible(probably others) being pasted into Monster, to form sentences, very fascinating.
 
Aniram said:
Discussion has been gone at Max-Jax for days now, this forum has been down.

What's up everybody?

Anyone still interested in this whatsoever?

I found the "why" and "me" from Invincible(probably others) being pasted into Monster, to form sentences, very fascinating.
Click to expand...

OHHHH, you're alive.Good :girl_smile:
 
Burn Tonight leaked....My gawd, this is really, really surreal....We're supposed to be enjoying REAL MJ leaks....and this is what we're getting?

:no:
 
Yeah, maybe when we get to page 1000 we can close the thread and stop talking, but until then we march onwards.
 
Hey! Who missed me? And also, I don't know if this is taboo, but Burn Tonight leaked.... Discuss.
 
Heheh.... That, my dear Watson, is a classic case of the "pretend-to-be-MJ-sies". It's pretty common among struggling artists.
 
Anyone find it interesting:
Jason Malachi:"If you want something to play with, go and buy yourself a toyyyy(shaky vibrato)"
Burn Tonight: "Play me like a toyyyy(shaky vibrato)"
 
Doc-Brown.jpg


"Marty, we gotta go back in time and stop the Estate from buying the Cascio tracks!!

"But Doc, don't we need proof to stop that from happening?"

"Proof? Where we're going, we don't need proof"
 
If you want something to play with go and buy yourself a toy
Cause my time, my time is just too expensive
And I am not a little boy, yeah, babe
I'm serious, don't play games with my heart
It makes me furious

Oh sorry I just realized, as I type that... it's

TELL IT LIKE IT IS
skip to 34seconds.
 
I really don't know whether to laugh or cry....Throughout this thread, we've pointed out identical vocals between Jason Malachi and the Cascio singer...Not only identical voices, but very similar melody lines, production, and lyrics....

What else do people need?
 
I don't know if this'll make anyone feel better, but would a singing and dancing goblin on broadway help get out the atrocious song?
 
Aniram said:
Discussion has been gone at Max-Jax for days now, this forum has been down.

What's up everybody?

Anyone still interested in this whatsoever?

I found the "why" and "me" from Invincible(probably others) being pasted into Monster, to form sentences, very fascinating.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I always thought that Jason probably sang that part; his ad-libbing is the only thing that gets close to MJ. At the very least, I think the "haun-in" HONKIN part was him.

Now what you said may also explain the Black Widow snippet, which many fans think sounds real. I always thought it could be Jason cuz the way "gerll" was pronounced sounded weird, but I could be wrong. The snippet goes something like "YOU CANT (inaudible)... YOU GIRL!!")

When that first snippet came out, if we knew better, we would have already picked out some signs. The hoo! from YRMW is there too along with the slowed down AAOW from Escape.

In the whole song the hoo! pops up several times. I checked this and it sounds slightly different, as if they were smart enough to process it slightly each time.

Here are 3 "hoo!" (1. from intro 2. second chorus 3. last chorus)
http://www.box.net/shared/65e8kbzme0yc0tuacsz7

In BN, there are also slight differences between the original online release and the final album version; I think the background vocals are a bit more quiet. The difference is slight but can be heard especially in the bridge. In the original leak it sounds like the lead vocalist is not singing "they say" and the background singers are singing that while in the final version we hear the singer sing that part too as with the leaked acapella. That was all Teddy did to "make it sound like Michael"
 
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I am wondering now...

Why Jason sang in Spanish sometimes...

Mamacita, you know...

Burn Tonight seems very similar and also similar to other Jason Malachi works.

Interesting, his name is Jason CUPETA.

Seems like he could know a thing or two about Spanish, hm???

To sing in Spanish you'd have to be fairly confident about it.
You know, I don't think you could just pick it up and sound good...
If you didn't have some Spanish background.

(Now, I know MJ sang IJCSLY in Spanish, but I think that's just a bit different and I bet he had to practice a bit for it.)
 
still haven't heard Burn Tonight yet... but, the lyrics are kind of ridiculous... "play me like a toy", really?

gee... my dirty mind thinks of a vibrator instinctually. :shifty:
 
^^ Of course that's what he means :shifty: :puke:
 
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if anyone could pm a link to burn tonight that would be apperciated. From what you guys are saying....it sucks even worse?
 
I wouldn't even bother getting the song.

It's a piece of crap.

There are many people streaming the song on blogs and stuff...

One listen was more than enough for me.

The Cascio tracks just disgust me...

Back to my David Bowie...
 
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