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Murray Trial - 30 September - Day 4 - Discussion

^^ Can you follow twitter? Many fan group accounts are posting live coverage as the testimony occurs. I am personally relaying it myself too.
 
I think they´ll talk about marks on Michaels body later, when doctors who performed the autopsy are going to witness.Maybe they say something about the marks after the beads.

For witnesses I think it´s common that they tell different stories even if they are there at the same time.
You see different things and remember different things.
Sometimes your memory isn´t right and you can get the details wrong.
 
suzynyc said:
Like are there any am or fm radio stations airing the trial or are there any websites where watching streaming video on a 3g network is not a problem? I will be so disappointed next week if I can't watch or listen to the trial as it happens.
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http://www.siriusxm.com/player Login with XM/XM,and in the upper side you have sort of player where you can choose stations. Find something like numder 112, click, you open some station, and then find right arrow and click till number 116 - NLN radio. Unfortunetley, it's with a lot of commercial. But it's better then nothing -saved me yersterday - i had very bad connection in my hotel
 
Soundmind said:
how sweet !!!! why did he then leave valium, lorazepam pills, klonazepam, flumax.......etc on the night stand ? he moved all the drugs he was giving to MJ and left the meds prescribed by other doctors.
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So the drugs were on the nightstand when the kids were in the house (CM didnt bother to lock the door of the room when he left to make his calls), but he wanted to store HIS drugs when the kids were leaving the house? Makes a lot of sense.

I have to admit, I'm worried now about the difference and contradictions between Seneff, AA, and Blount, regarding the people who took Michael of the bed, and when. If it casts a doubt on what AA told, it would be bad, I think. :/
 
alvarez and the paramedics testified during the preliminary hearing aswell, so the inconsistency should have been there as well? I hope it dident come as a shock to the prosecution and they can handle it cuz the defense is gonna use this ALOT during closing to catch doubt on Alvarez, Muhammed and Williams.
 
^^^ I think it helps that even the two paramedics also have slightly different versions, what worries me is if the jury question his testimony regarding the iv bag and propofol bottle. I was surprised the paramedic weren't asked.
 
Thank you for all your updates and comments.
I really appreciate it.

And I admire you guys, how can you be so focused and not let the emotions to overwhelm you?I know it's just an appearence and you are only acting cool.:sad2:
 
Actually, talking about myself, having to translate helps, I have to focus on something, a precise task. Doesnt let me think too much. It doesnt work 100%, but it helps.
I have to thank Ivy for bullying me into doing it. :p
 
LastTear said:
^^^ I think it helps that even the two paramedics also have slightly different versions, what worries me is if the jury question his testimony regarding the iv bag and propofol bottle. I was surprised the paramedic weren't asked.
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All the pros have to do is make it clear that all thesr things wete found in a bag hidden and theres no issue. its not like the bag was never found and its ones person word against the other.my issue at the mo is will the pros do a good enough job of connecting the dots for the jury.like yesterday with murrays ex paitent. they mentioned murrays phone message but didnt make it obvious that this call was made when murray should have been watching mj.also the medic sees the lidocane on the floor.it should have been said that lidocane is given before diorivan so the jury can sre the connection rather than it been some random drug murray didnt mention.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
All the pros have to do is make it clear that all thesr things wete found in a bag hidden and theres no issue. its not like the bag was never found and its ones person word against the other.my issue at the mo is will the pros do a good enough job of connecting the dots for the jury.like yesterday with murrays ex paitent. they mentioned murrays phone message but didnt make it obvious that this call was made when murray should have been watching mj.also the medic sees the lidocane on the floor.it should have been said that lidocane is given before diorivan so the jury can sre the connection rather than it been some random drug murray didnt mention.
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Yes I agree, there were a couple of times yesterday that I was expecting more from the prosecution. I guess the key yesterday was that Murray never told the paramedics that he had given him the drugs.
 
I think in this intense, I believe Alvarez & not the medics.

The get hundreds of emergency calls and patients, and it has been 2 years so everything must be mixed up in their head.

Alvarez only has to remember ONE crime scene, ONE patient, ONE event.

Here is the June 25th 2009 report filed by the medics. It clearly stated MICHAEL was found on the ground & his killer murray was performing CPR when they arrived.

I trust this document, because it was filed the very same day MJ passed.

EMT-Report.jpg


50YO FOUND SUPINE ON FLOOR, CPR IN PROGRESS.

the prosecution should do their job & recall Senneff. They made similar mistake in preliminary hearing...then prosecution showed them report and he agreed MJ was on the floor. Why didn't they do the same here?

During the call, you can hear when 911 said "get him on the floor, get him on the food" ...Alvarez seems to have move from his initial position.

Very disappointed prosecution have left the defense get ahead and let the jury go home this weekend with these discrepancies. If we are thinking about it, you can bet they re doing the same.
 
Could someone summarize the differences in the testimony of the bodyguards and paramedics?
 
So he was on the floor. why didnt the pros show this document to him and point it out. sometimes the pros seem weak with the details. brazil didnt do a good job yesterday with the medics. having to ask questions after she initalky said she had finished and forgeting to ask about how long mj had been
gone and having to wait until the defence had brought it up on cross. why do i feel that sometimes we know more details then them
 
Which isnt good! the pros need to set the record sraight on that issue as the defence were and will jump all over it. hopefully the jurrors will read that document. its just frustrating that on certain aspects the pros seem slack. dont give the defence anything.especially when the info is there to
set the record straight and they didnt
 
Memefan said:
I think in this intense, I believe Alvarez & not the medics.

The get hundreds of emergency calls and patients, and it has been 2 years so everything must be mixed up in their head.

Alvarez only has to remember ONE crime scene, ONE patient, ONE event.

Here is the June 25th 2009 report filed by the medics. It clearly stated MICHAEL was found on the ground & his killer murray was performing CPR when they arrived.

I trust this document, because it was filed the very same day MJ passed.

EMT-Report.jpg


50YO FOUND SUPINE ON FLOOR, CPR IN PROGRESS.

the prosecution should do their job & recall Senneff. They made similar mistake in preliminary hearing...then prosecution showed them report and he agreed MJ was on the floor. Why didn't they do the same here?

During the call, you can hear when 911 said "get him on the floor, get him on the food" ...Alvarez seems to have move from his initial position.

Very disappointed prosecution have left the defense get ahead and let the jury go home this weekend with these discrepancies. If we are thinking about it, you can bet they re doing the same.
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so basically you're saying you trust a document that spells his name wrong and also gets his date of birth incorrect? I wouldn't trust such a thing
 
yeah, why did they not show this document to the paramedics to bolster alvarez credibility? Who moved him, Blount says for a fact it was the paramedics and Alvarez said it was him and murray. did murray put him back when alvarez was not looking or what. Why would someone lie about such thing? If Alvarez was lying he would probably make up a more important lie than just saying he was the one who moved him from the bed....
 
I don't think anybody is deliberately lying. But I agree, I don't know why the prosecution didn't clear this up yesterday, hopefully they will be re-called, perhaps closer to when the jury need to decide.
 
eXceLOfFam1 said:
so basically you're saying you trust a document that spells his name wrong and also gets his date of birth incorrect? I wouldn't trust such a thing
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Getting the name and d.o.b wrong of someone u dont know is different to writing down what u saw
 
The doc was shown yesterday though but was it pointed out about where he was found when they were going through the doc when he was the stand. the first medic i mean.

i dunno maybe we are looking at this to much. i just worry over everything
 
You think Murray and the defense troll forums like this for fan observations and comments? I find that worrying, and wish there was a way to password protect this forum :/

Maybe I'm just worrying too much eh?
 
eXceLOfFam1 said:
so basically you're saying you trust a document that spells his name wrong and also gets his date of birth incorrect? I wouldn't trust such a thing
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They are emergency workers..not Michael Jackson's fans, friends or family.

People misspell Micheal (intentional!!) all the time. Murray could have given the wrong birthday to them...

Personally, I believe what they wrote onJune 25th...because it had just happened. Now, they have probably handled 100s cases since MJ passed, they might have confused some of them.

Senneff made that same mistake during prelim...and the pro hammered him on it and he later admitted the report is accurate that MJ was already on the floor when they entered the room. The question is...why didn't the prosecution do the same thing in front of the jury?

Senneff & Blount mixing timeline, confusing cases is forgivable..and the jury won't hold it against them, but Alvarez doing the same thing (he only has 1 case to remember, his ex-employer) won't be seen as harmless

Can we contact the prosecution and tell them? I know it's insane...but they CANNOT mess up this case. Murray has to go to jail AND lose his medical license AND because of "son of Sam" be unable to profit from MJ's death when he comes out.
 
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i feel the prosecution has done a good job so far in showing all the things murray did wrong and violeted common sense and logic but i sometimes feel they forget to point and stress important points from "our" point of view. I sometimes feel that the defense manages to point out details that might help them in a way the prosecuters does not. That does not mean in any way that the evidence this week has not been extremly damaging for murray. but i do have some questions over the tactics of the prosecuters.

if its true that the paramedics were "impeached" during prelim but not during trial about the on the ground/on the bed issue why in heavens name were they not IN FRONT of the jury. Does anyone have a transcript of the prelim of the paramedics.

U can read Senneffs prelim testimony here: http://teammichaeljackson.com/p-vcm-richard-sennef

he gets asked about saying Mike was lifted from the bed by murray and a security guard in a police interview. but the timeline is still wrong regarding alvare vs seneff.
 
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I would trust the document too, Memefan made a good point, they've seen hundreds of cases since that day, and this was written on june 25.

@Elusive, feel the same, I worry about everything. :/ And it's only been 4 days.
 
Ben said:
I would trust the document too, Memefan made a good point, they've seen hundreds of cases since that day, and this was written on june 25.

@Elusive, feel the same, I worry about everything. :/ And it's only been 4 days.
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I would trust the document as well.

Also I'm feeling sorry for AA, he was slated by the defence partner in that interview, and now being called a liar. I don't see what he would have to gain by lying about this, granted he may be mistaken, but lie, I don't see a motive. He hasn't done anything wrong and is not to blame for Michael's death, so he has nothing to cover up. He has turned down all those offers for paid interviews even though he is struggling for work, I feel really sorry for him.
 
Memefan said:
They are emergency workers..not Michael Jackson's fans, friends or family.People misspell Micheal (intentional!!) all the time. Murray could have given the wrong birthday to them...Personally, I believe what they wrote onJune 25th...because it had just happened. Now, they have probably handled 100s cases since MJ passed, they might have confused some of them.Senneff made that same mistake during prelim...and the pro hammered him on it and he later admitted the report is accurate that MJ was already on the ground when they entered the room. The question is...why didn't the prosecution do the same thing in front of the jury?Senneff & Blount mixing timeline, confusing cases is forgivable..and the jury won't hold it against them, but Alvarez doing the same thing (he only has 1 case to remember, his ex-employer) won't be seen as harmlessCan we contact the prosecution and tell them? I know it's insane...but they CANNOT mess up this case. Murray has to go to jail AND lose his medical license AND because of "son of Sam" be unable to profit from MJ's death when he comes out.
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go the D.A's website im sure they will have an email address. i fail to understand why they impeached the witness in the prelim but not now. its not like they didnt realise.
 
Agree erik its about stressing the point. and this worries me
 
This reminds me of back in 2005 when some fans felt that TMez did not drive home a point he should have or did make the kind of connection we felt he should have made, etc. We know how that turned out.

I personally do not see why the difference in small details is a problem. As someone said we all see things differently and it has been two years. I know we worry and we want things to be perfect. But we have to be careful not create problems where none exist. The prosecution is doing a good job. We do not know what other evidence they plan present, what is in their closing statement, and how they plan to challenge Conrad Murray if he takes the stand. We don't know what the jury is thinking. So as much as we feel we know stuff the pros doesn't, the same can be said for them knowing stuff we don't.

Let us be careful how we discuss stuff here, since it is not a password-protected forum.
 
Ben said:
Actually, talking about myself, having to translate helps, I have to focus on something, a precise task. Doesnt let me think too much. It doesnt work 100%, but it helps.
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Yes, same here!
 
Memefan said:
I think in this intense, I believe Alvarez & not the medics.

The get hundreds of emergency calls and patients, and it has been 2 years so everything must be mixed up in their head.

Alvarez only has to remember ONE crime scene, ONE patient, ONE event.

Here is the June 25th 2009 report filed by the medics. It clearly stated MICHAEL was found on the ground & his killer murray was performing CPR when they arrived.
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Thank you for that! So I guess they got it wrong. And yes, why didn't they show this in court?

Erikmjfan said:
yeah, why did they not show this document to the paramedics to bolster alvarez credibility? Who moved him, Blount says for a fact it was the paramedics and Alvarez said it was him and murray. did murray put him back when alvarez was not looking or what. Why would someone lie about such thing? If Alvarez was lying he would probably make up a more important lie than just saying he was the one who moved him from the bed....
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I vaguely remember that Senneff, I think, also said yesterday that they moved him, because he was lying on the floor at the side of the bed and they didn't have enough room to work there, so they moved him to the floor at the foot of the bed. I just remembered that, can someone confirm? Because that would mean it is possible that the EMT's just mixed up things a bit more than 2 years later and they did move him, but from the floor to a different part of the floor and that he was actually on the floor when they arrived.
 
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