Latest on MJJC

Michael - The Great Album Debate

Grent said:
I think it indeed is about hearing.

Imagine someone who loves nature. Everybody does, right? It's fall, you see the birds going south, you see the leaves changing colours, you can even smell fall. You watch everything closely and you love it. Then imagine someone, who can tell you which particular birds you just saw and that they're leaving later than normal because of the enduring warmth in the early fall. That someone shows you the one tree that doesn't fit because the colors of its leaves are due to fungus infection rather than fall itself. That person goes on and on and sees so much more than you have. Because that's just they way his eyes work - and of course because of his education. He knows what to look for. But even without education, and no matter how hard you concentrate - some just seem to notice so much more than you do. And this is not about opinions. ;)

I think you can translate that to art. Everybody loves music, right? But some things you miss because you are concentrating on different areas or just because you don't know what to listen to in detail. You can even listen to a short piece ten times then someone comes along and asks you "Did you hear that one little significant note there?". And you haven't before, but you do in the future. Some people hear that note right away. Maybe they miss something else instead. What I miss, e.g., is lyrics. I just don't get them, they don't come through the music. It takes ages to know what a song truly is about (of course I could just read the lyrics, but usually I don't, because I don't really care and also: I simply forget. because there is no primary sense for me to add the semantics of the lyrics to the complete impression). This is a major weakness. But it seems this weakness is evened out through the deeper perception of music, or at least I hope it is. ;)

It might have to do with different brain areas being active or developed. The funny thing is, however, that music and language seem to be quite related in terms of brain areas. I really can't explain that regarding my personal behavior.

I think starting to play musical instruments at a very early age does help and being able to sing. You're not just able to say "Well, this time the vers sounds different ... more passionate ...", but you can actually point out what the singer / producer did to achieve that effect - slightly different harmonies, minor changes in voice leading - whatever it might be. You can even transcribe and therefore better understand. You might be able to even 'feel' a specific singing technique because of certain qualities and so forth.


So some believers seem to really hear MJ on those songs. But providing more and more stuff, like Fall in Love etc. should make them reconsider everything. They are able to see a bigger picture. I am very impressed of KingMikeJ for expressing his intentions to think about the 3 released songs again - no matter what the outcome may be. Thank you for that.

It's not about being better or worse, though. Don't get me wrong. I know, most of you won't.
Click to expand...



[youtube]JqMFaySZbS4&feature=related[/youtube]
 
StellaJackson said:
This is a difficult question because as you may know, Birchey had some legal problems. I will answer based on my knowledge of this. The Cascios had all their songs - all 12 of them, saved in ProTools, which is a music editing software. This is how they were given to Sony. Not on cd or anything like that, but saved in ProTools. Accompanying these 12 songs were some other files, including several of MJ's old beat boxes that had been cut together to make a new one. There was a file named "MJTelephone". I don't know what it contained. There were other files named "MJGrunts01" "MJGrunts02" etc. While we are on the topic, it was the research into the material from that ProTools session that revealed much of how the songs had been constructed. We were led to believe that these were all songs that Michael had recorded and had left no other takes etc because he was so happy with them. However, each songs, is cut together from multiple takes. In some instances, entire lines are put together from multiple takes. Therein lies the smoking gun. Jason wasn't perfect. These songs were recorded over and over again and the best (most convincing) bits from each take were spliced together. The software showed that the songs had been recorded on high quality equipment on a number of different microphones. They had all the hallmarks of being recorded in a good quality professional studio. This info also blew the whole processing excuse out the water. There is no processing on those original demos. That vibrato, those snorts and that pronounciation is what is coming naturally from the singers mouth. I hope all that answers your question and gives you some insight. Short answer: there is nothing in the songs that appears to have been recorded over the phone and it is unkown what the telephone files contains. I'm not sure why he said that the Cascio's only had telephone vocals. I haven't ever seen such a quote. Also, I'd like to add that I do not possess any of the above material and I do not condone the alleged act of stealing material on anyones part.
Click to expand...
Thank you, I knew that.. but I wondered if the Cascio ever claimed that the songs were recorded on the telephone. I don't remember having heard about that... but Birchey seemed to say so..
Anyway, as you point out, it shows clearly that their declaration about the alternatives recordings erased by MJ himself, were purely a lie !
 
mjmax said:
Thank you, I knew that.. but I wondered if the Cascio ever claimed that the songs were recorded on the telephone. I don't remember having heard about that... but Birchey seemed to say so..
Anyway, as you point out, it shows clearly that their declaration about the alternatives recordings erased by MJ himself, were purely a lie !
Click to expand...

They never claimed it to my knowledge.
 
It was said by like... Whats his face that always posted those news stories about the Cascio tracks... said some of the songs were recorded "down the phone" or something.

But I think Birchey said rather that they were recorded on hq microphones.
 
Aniram said:
It was said by like... Whats his face that always posted those news stories about the Cascio tracks... said some of the songs were recorded "down the phone" or something.

But I think Birchey said rather that they were recorded on hq microphones.
Click to expand...
Well.. look what he said:

Firstly Michael was there for over 2 Months, yet they say they only have telephone vocals, secondly, if they did make them more presentable to Sony and at the same time tell them they did, and that they are from a telephone, why didn't they hand over any of the raw vocals? Its not like they were a secret to Sony/Riley.
Click to expand...
"They" refers to the Cascio, right?
 
I don't know you guys, but I am still waiting for the new info to come up as reported in the Estate's report:

[...] Although there still seem to be concerns being expressed in some quarters about the authenticity of the lead vocals, notwithstanding the opinion of those who worked with Michael, and two independent forensic analysts, ultimately, Michael’s fans will be the judges of these songs, as they always are. We take all fan comments very seriously, and as I’d stated above, there is nothing more important to the Estate than Michael’s music, his legacy and his fans.

Michael’s fans are extraordinary in their quest for accuracy and their passions to raise their voices in a search for truth! We join with them in our care and concern for Michael. We are continuing to follow up with those who have worked in the studio or on tours with Michael, and if any new information comes to light, we will keep you and the fans advised.

Thanks,
Howard

Howard Weitzman, Esq.
Attorney for the Estate Of Michael Jackson
Santa Monica, CA
Click to expand...

After reading many comments from MJ's angry fans on www.michaeljackson.com and other websites and social networks, why don't I believe this report?
 
Because all their reports are lies to try and please the people and shut them up a bit longer.
 
BTW, whats the name of that guy who made all those reports about the Cascio songs and how great they were supposed to be? His name was like John F. or something? I think it also may have been Perezhilton's blog that reported on the telephone vocals.

edit: You know, it may have been Roger Friedman.

Definitely was him... reading his reports about the Cascio songs, they're really pathetic.
 
Last edited:
Some people here claim that MJ never hit a bum note, and that he was never out of tune. Not only is that a silly thing to say in and of itself, since all singers make mistakes, but it is especially funny when you consider that we all know they fixed his vocals for the This is it movie. Yes, when the first footage from the film was shown (the Human Nature segment), MJ's "Why, Why" vocals were a bit off. They were fixed with computers in the final film.

Also, the fact MJ basically stopped singing live in 1993 should tell you something about how confident he was about his singing abilities outside of the carefully controlled studio environment.
 
kreen said:
Some people here claim that MJ never hit a bum note, and that he was never out of tune. Not only is that a silly thing to say in and of itself, since all singers make mistakes, but it is especially funny when you consider that we all know they fixed his vocals for the This is it movie. Yes, when the first footage from the film was shown (the Human Nature segment), MJ's "Why, Why" vocals were a bit off. They were fixed with computers in the final film.

Also, the fact MJ basically stopped singing live in 1993 should tell you something about how confident he was about his singing abilities outside of the carefully controlled studio environment.
Click to expand...

Wasn't Fall In Love apparently recorded in a carefully controlled studio environment?
 
kreen said:
Some people here claim that MJ never hit a bum note, and that he was never out of tune. Not only is that a silly thing to say in and of itself, since all singers make mistakes, but it is especially funny when you consider that we all know they fixed his vocals for the This is it movie. Yes, when the first footage from the film was shown (the Human Nature segment), MJ's "Why, Why" vocals were a bit off. They were fixed with computers in the final film.

Also, the fact MJ basically stopped singing live in 1993 should tell you something about how confident he was about his singing abilities outside of the carefully controlled studio environment.
Click to expand...

No they weren't, his "Why, Why" sounds the same in the final film...This is the initial clip that aired on Oprah..





Now go and watch the film, they sound exactly the same. What may have been edited was the duration of the final "Why's", in the initial clip it seems he's having a hard time controlling his breathing while singing the final four "why's", in the film it isn't that noticeable, but vocally, they're identical patterns.
 
WhoIsIt89 said:
No they weren't, his "Why, Why" sounds the same in the final film...This is the initial clip that aired on Oprah..





Now go and watch the film, they sound exactly the same.
Click to expand...

Even if this was improved for This Is It, it is certainly not out of tune and is no where near the mess of Fall In Love.
 
Out of tune or not, Michael has always sounded Michael Jackson....For example, I think he sounds slightly out of tune on Give In To Me 'She always take it with a heart of stone'....Even then, he still sounds incredible, and *gasp* just like Michael Jackson has always sounded...Singing out of tune (if that's your argument) won't change his pronunciation, timbre, accent, strip him of his vocals tics, and ultimately sounding like another person....It's not whether he just had a bad day in the studio or on stage, it's whether he sounds like himself despite being out of tune or processed, or on the phone, etc..etc..etc....which he has always sounded under any type of conditions we've heard him in for the last 30+ years....Oh, that's right, except for those few months in 2007...
 
While we're discrediting reasons, is there a video of Michael during the Dangerous tour singing with the flu? I know that's why they dubbed vocals on the Bucharest DVD from another concert.
 
KingMikeJ said:
Even if this was improved for This Is It, it is certainly not out of tune and is no where near the mess of Fall In Love.
Click to expand...

I can't talk about Fall in Love because I've never heard it, or the other recently leaked Cascio songs, except in a short excerpt with an awful robotic voice over it. Hard to tell whether MJ's singing in tune or not in those conditions.
 
kreen said:
I can't talk about Fall in Love because I've never heard it, or the other recently leaked Cascio songs, except in a short excerpt with an awful robotic voice over it. Hard to tell whether MJ's singing in tune or not in those conditions.
Click to expand...

I was only talking about Fall In Love. Please do not defend this song before you hear it, you will probably regret it.
 
kreen said:
Some people here claim that MJ never hit a bum note, and that he was never out of tune. Not only is that a silly thing to say in and of itself, since all singers make mistakes, but it is especially funny when you consider that we all know they fixed his vocals for the This is it movie. Yes, when the first footage from the film was shown (the Human Nature segment), MJ's "Why, Why" vocals were a bit off. They were fixed with computers in the final film.

Also, the fact MJ basically stopped singing live in 1993 should tell you something about how confident he was about his singing abilities outside of the carefully controlled studio environment.
Click to expand...

So, his singing technique diminished after 1993? How's that even possible when his range got even wider with age? Plus, all the continuous trainings he did would only make him a more verstile vocalist. I would agree he might not be able to sing and dance simultaneously as good as he did during the BAD era. However, isn't live performance a different domain? There are many reasons why live singing is challenging. Because of the noise level? Because of the dance routine? Because of jetlag? Because of weather? Because of his lung infection? Who knows? One can only speculate why Michael didn't sing live as much as possible.

Michael Jackson as a vocalist in a studio setting was as good or even better than his younger self. To me, Invincible, an album he did when he's in his early 40's showcased what an exceptionally brilliant vocalist he still was.
 
kreen said:
I can't talk about Fall in Love because I've never heard it, or the other recently leaked Cascio songs, except in a short excerpt with an awful robotic voice over it. Hard to tell whether MJ's singing in tune or not in those conditions.
Click to expand...

Wait a second. I remember you said you believe all the Cascio tracks are authentice after hearing ALL 12 tracks. Now, you are saying you haven't heard Fall In Love, but just the snippet???

P.S.: Please excuse my double posting. This site is as slow as a snail in my office. Editing a post would have frozen everything.
 
love is magical said:
Wait a second. I remember you said you believe all the Cascio tracks are authentice after hearing ALL 12 tracks. Now, you are saying you haven't heard Fall In Love, but just the snippet???

P.S.: Please excuse my double posting. This site is as slow as a snail in my office. Editing a post would have frozen everything.
Click to expand...

Has the full track leaked? I have the untagged snippet.
 
love is magical said:
I believe I heard the same snippet. A 20 second long snippet with no robotic voice. Although it's not a full song, it's enough for me to determine the quality of the vocalist.
Click to expand...
The Fall In Love snippet that has leaked is 1:43 minutes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top