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Murray Trial- Day 13- October 19th Discussion

He does not see the difference between what CM did or a housecleaning lady who said yes to cleaning the windows. "Yes" is not what a dr says to a request that is not in his patient's best interest.
 
If dr Murray had acted as a doctor and would have said "you need to see a sleep specialist" and not come up with Propofol every night, he would of been a responsible doctor.
 
says Mj did not act like a docotor, witness says that Murray should have told MJ he has a sleep-disorder and need to see a sleep doctor to be evaluated
 
Informed consent - Propofol is not a drug used for insomnia, nobody has tried administering it for the treatment of ANYTHING, the risk of death is very real, discussions of alternative therapy and it has to be written.
 
Your body is your own and your life is your own and you have the right to decide - right to autonomy, this is what informed consent is. Autonomy is a fundamental right. The lack of informed consent denied MJ autonomy.

He tells patients that there is a possibility of adverse outcomes, that include dying. This case is different ad placed MJ at huge risk, because of the environment, of the huge dosage, etc.
 
should have been a form-consent ever night since it was a new procedure every night... MJ was denied this right
 
Thats bs.How can he call himself a doctor and get away with it.If he knew Michael stopped breathing then y was no kind of air used even if it was for a few seconds.............
 
Every night there should of been a written form consent, because it was a different procedure.

Observation of the mental status - violation. When he is providing care to a patient, he converses with the patient when he's getting sleepy and he's right there assessing how awake they are, how comfortable they are. They are not looking for deep sedation, they are looking for the right power to bring the patient just where he needs to be.

Murray walked out of the room. An anesthesiologist giving sedation is responsible for driving the case, like a person driving a morothome on the driveway. If you need to pee, you don't just go to the bathroom while driving, because by the time you'll get back it will be a disaster. Dr Murray left the steering wheel.

In 25 years he has never left the operating room, not once.
 
in 25 yrs he has worked in an operation room giving anesthisa he has never walked outside.. IF he has to, he would call a collegaues...doctors dont do that
 
Physically walking out and abandoning MJ and also the phone calls - it's a setup for disaster. CM is not on the steering wheel, he can't multitask like this, even if a couple of feet away, especially from a couple of feet away because you can't tell that your patient is essentially dying, because you're distracted.
 
says Murray on phone, e-mailing is not Ok, u cant multi-tasking in this situation... a person that is about to die is no different than a person that is alive because u cant know if someone is about to die... u just cant be distracted
 
NOT ONCE has Dr. Shaffer walked out of an operating room on a patient in his 25 years nor has any of his colleagues to the best of his knowledge.

If Dr. Shaffer needed to, a colleague would step in and Dr. Shaffer would report to him/her as to what is going on and when Dr. Shaffer would return the colleague would tell Dr. Shaffer what's gone since he left.
 
from a distance Dr Shafer cant tell if a person is breathing or not...

to look at MJ from a distance wont say if he is breathing or not because u simply cant see from a distance if someone is breathing or not
 
The patient does not look so much different from a distance, you can't tell if a person is breathing or not. But that's the only thing CM was monitoring. MJ could stop breathing for a long period of time and CM not observing, occasionally looking is not enough.
 
The monitoring has to be done continuously every few minutes for blood pressure and every few seconds for O2 and CO2 saturation.
 
He has patients that stop breathing every day, when one induces anesthesia, you give large doses and it's no big deal because he knows what to do, he breathes for them, with the mask or some other form of ventilation.

If CM had been at the head of the bed next to MJ, he would of simply lifted the chin, something simple, or ventilated him with the mask and nothing would of happened.
 
patiens stop breathing in operationrooms are normal, thats expected ... but if Murray had been there with all the equipments there would not be any problem at all .
 
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All Michael needed was help breathing. Turn off the drugs and help him breath. This Dr is right. Conrad Murray is incompetant. I am so heartbroken right now. It sounds like a competant doctor could have saved Michael simply by tilting his head back, getting the tongue out of the way and getting oxygen to MJ. This fact is going to haunt us...
 
Thanks for the updates guys. at work at the mo.have to turn my phone off in a sec. will check later when i can x
 
This is all so sad to hear and yet so necessary for the prosecution to emphasize:
how easy it would have been for michael to have been saved...

I don't care how many 'character' witnesses they produce, it means NOTHING.
 
It's getting really late in my part of the world :) I think bouee will post the updates, but in the meantime could you please keep the thread updated?

Thank you so much!!
 
Vici said:
says Mj did not act like a docotor, witness says that Murray should have told MJ he has a sleep-disorder and need to see a sleep doctor to be evaluated
Click to expand...
Popescu said:
If dr Murray had acted as a doctor and would have said "you need to see a sleep specialist" and not come up with Propofol every night, he would of been a responsible doctor.
Click to expand...

Michael was not naive and he knew. :unsure: I'm sure Michael knew he needed a sleep specialist to solve his problem. I'm sure he thought about it. Perhaps he sought one? No one knows.
 
If Murray does not convicted I really don't know how to accept that. It makes me sick how Murray acted. I really don't want watch cross examination.
 
ilmjj said:
All Michael needed was help breathing. Turn off the drugs and help him breath. This Dr is right. Conrad Murray is incompetant. I am so heartbroken right now. It sounds like a competant doctor could have saved Michael simply by tilting his head back, getting the tongue out of the way and getting oxygen to MJ. This fact is going to haunt us...
Click to expand...

yeah,...I have no words left to describe what it is I am feeling.
 
marebear said:
If Murray does not convicted I really don't know how to accept that. It makes me sick how Murray acted. I really don't want watch cross examination.
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I don't want to watch it either. Dr Shafer is a brilliant man and the defense is only going to insult his intelligence.

How is Dr White going to sit up their and defend Murray? Won't that ruin his reputation? Yes in my eyes!
 
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