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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Aniram said:
ivy, do you think it's Jason singing? Do you think we are crazy to hear what we hear? Why do you think Michael sounds so odd in the songs? Do you know how well Michael trained his voice and how strange it is for him to sound so weird, using so many Jason Malachi characteristics, pure coincidence?
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I've been asking believers this for almost a year and still not got a logical response. Even asking if they've heard all the songs now that they've leaked is usually ignored. I'm glad KingMikeJ talked about his feelings after hearing everything and how he feels that, at the very least, the newly leaked stuff is clearly not Michael. I have a lot of respect for him for that. I look forward to hearing more of his thoughts. By the way, there are some excellent new comparisons on the MJFrance forum but I can't link to them here as the page has comparisons for both old and newly leaked stuff.
 
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Yeah, I think ivy just ignored that comment... I don't know why.
 
I went and browsed through the MJFrance forum and came across this perfect analysis of Monster:
Full Description: - 0'00 to 0'32 in, these are the cries of Michael Jackson, copied to a cappella versions of other titles - from 0'33 at 1'10, this is Jason Malachi, trying to recreate the style of Michael Jackson, but its major drawback is that voice trembling and his total lack of power. - At 1'11, a cry DE Michael Jackson 's an old song has been placed. But that's not all, "yeaaaaah" haters is DE Michael Jackson at 1'22, as the main defect of Malachi is precisely that it fails to produce this kind of art being credible (lack of power yet). All this old song. - A "Oooooh oooh ohhh" Michael Jackson was placed at 1'30, a former title. - A 1'55 is the great catastrophe, Malachi wallows and totally unmasked as not only the voice of Michael's head does not shake like this, but Jason sings false passage. - At 2'53 during the rap 50c, a true "Hhhhhhhaaaa" Michael Jackson is set to an old title. At 3'01, 3'03 and 3'11, 3'13, 3'21, 3'23 ', 3'25, 3'26 , 8 cries of old songs of the real Michael Jackson. - At 3'33, Teddy Riley, who had access to the song Hollywood tonight and a cappella, is a clever mix of voice and Malachi Jackson, so simultaneously, making them the word "Hollywood". - At 3'56, a "WHY" from the true voice of Michael Jackson is then mixed with the slurry of Malachi. - At 4'00, another cry of Michael Jackson, an old song. (Cree pumped throughout the song is exactly the same copy and paste in a systematic way). - At 4'07, a real "Yeaaaaaaaaaah" copied that of 1'22. The end of the song ends with WHY the real Michael Jackson, and phrases are skillfully finished by Malachi. Other cries made ??previously are still found here and there. End of analysis.
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Sorry that it's such a rough translation from Google but you get the point, I thought it was spot on.
 
Aniram said:
I went and browsed through the MJFrance forum and came across this perfect analysis of Monster:


Sorry that it's such a rough translation from Google but you get the point, I thought it was spot on.
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Great analysis, though I didn't know that the "Hollywood" at 3:33 was mixed in with the one from Hollywood Tonight...
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I don't think so. This is permanent.
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original.jpg


To lighten things up:


Thriller reference half-way through.
 
Aniram said:
Yeah, I think ivy just ignored that comment... I don't know why.
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actually I had answered variations of those questions a million times before. you (generally speaking) responded as "excuse". I'm not wasting my time anymore. search feature is your best friend.
 
ivy said:
actually I had answered variations of those questions a million times before. you (generally speaking) responded as "excuse". I'm not wasting my time anymore. search feature is your best friend.
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Have you heard all 12 songs, including the demo versions, that were leaked recently? Many people, who were strongly against it being Cupeta before, have since changed their minds upon hearing said material. In fact, I haven't seen anyone suggest that Fall In Love could even possibly be Michael Jackson.
 
If someone would pm me links or email me the recent leaks ill give you my feedback. but i havent heard them, and if i did i wasnt paying attention. Id liek to hear Fall in love, and Black widow etc.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Sorry, I've neglected you recently, but I have impression that you haven't been in here as often as before. In any case, I don't see you often here.
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Two reasons:First, I'm following trial updates on twitter and the trial thread. Second, this forum is excruciating slow to load on my office computer. I honestly don't know what the problem is. Anyway, this thread is stilly favorite.
 
love is magical said:
Two reasons:First, I'm following trial updates on twitter and the trial thread. Second, this forum is excruciating slow to load on my office computer. I honestly don't know what the problem is. Anyway, this thread is stilly favorite.
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I almost can't even access the site here on my computer at work....Sometimes I can't even scroll down the screen, it freezes up and then I have to restart the computer...It's getting worse and worse...I've been using my cell phone, but it's gonna end up costing me a fortune...

I don't understand why it's so slow here at work...The computers are old, but they're not THAT bad...And it works just fine at home....
 
Arklove said:
I almost can't even access the site here on my computer at work....Sometimes I can't even scroll down the screen, it freezes up and then I have to restart the computer...It's getting worse and worse...I've been using my cell phone, but it's gonna end up costing me a fortune...I don't understand why it's so slow here at work...The computers are old, but they're not THAT bad...And it works just fine at home....
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I am experiencing the same problem. My work computer is not new, but it isn't that bad on other sites. It's certainly wasn't this slow before. I can't use my phone too often. I have an unlimited data plan; however, I can't always use my phone, as it doesn't look good that I always stare at my phone at work.
 
love is magical said:
I am experiencing the same problem. My work computer is not new, but it isn't that bad on other sites. It's certainly wasn't this slow before. I can't use my phone too often. I have an unlimited data plan; however, I can't always use my phone, as it doesn't look good that I always stare at my phone at work.
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Hahaha....yeah I always try and do it on the down low :ninja: lol
 
Arklove said:
Hahaha....yeah I always try and do it on the down low :ninja: lol
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Yeah, everyone at college has the same philosophy :p I think I'm the only person to have a phone that's not an android phone or an iPhone...
 
love is magical said:
Two reasons:First, I'm following trial updates on twitter and the trial thread. Second, this forum is excruciating slow to load on my office computer. I honestly don't know what the problem is. Anyway, this thread is stilly favorite.
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Arklove said:
I almost can't even access the site here on my computer at work....Sometimes I can't even scroll down the screen, it freezes up and then I have to restart the computer...It's getting worse and worse...I've been using my cell phone, but it's gonna end up costing me a fortune...

I don't understand why it's so slow here at work...The computers are old, but they're not THAT bad...And it works just fine at home....
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I had the same problem when using Internet Explorer. I use Google Chrome now and don't have that problem any more.
 
ivy said:
watch it / watch out / look out = "be careful"
talk to the hand = "Shut up - I've no interest in hearing what you've got to say"
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[h=1]"Between what I think I want to say, what I believe I'm saying, what I say, what you want to hear, what you believe you understand, and what you understood, there are at least nine possibilities for misunderstanding" -Francois Garagnon[/h]
p.s. Just to clear things up with some erroneous definitions and interpretations you gave:

"Talk to the hand" is not "shut up" and is not as rude as you are oversensitively depicting it. Here is the definition and the etymology:

Main Entry: talk to the hand Part of Speech: interjDefinition: a statement used to dismiss* someone or indicate you are not listening; also written tell it to the hand Example: You think I should spend time with you? Talk to the hand. Etymology: the hand being the symbol for 'stop'

*to dismiss: to put off or away, especially from consideration; put aside; reject: 'She dismissed the story as mere rumor.'


In other words after several accusations in your posts: "stop accusing me for something that was not true, I won't be listening to you if you continue accusing me."



And your watch it exclamation is much more rude!

Watch it! definition

  1. exclam. Be careful!; Watch your step!; Careful of what you say! : You're walking on thin ice. Watch it!


To me this was clearly used to threaten me with a ban, exactly as if I were walking on thin ice and on the verge of being banned by you only because you misunderstood what I said. On top of that you misunderstand what you say when saying "watch it" as if it was a kind warning when it's not and furthermore you misunderstand the expression "talk to the hand".
 
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ivy said:
actually I had answered variations of those questions a million times before. you (generally speaking) responded as "excuse". I'm not wasting my time anymore. search feature is your best friend.
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Alright, I was just wondering if your mind had changed at all since all the new songs and information that has come out and just... hearing the songs and knowing Michael's voice I thought maybe you'd realize by now.
 
see again the same questions I answered a million times already

StellaJackson said:
Have you heard all 12 songs, including the demo versions, that were leaked recently?
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no. I don't download any illegally obtained material. that won't change for me.

Aniram said:
Alright, I was just wondering if your mind had changed at all
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no

since all the new songs and information that has come out and just... hearing the songs and knowing Michael's voice I thought maybe you'd realize by now.
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as I wrote before I think that Jason has inferior technique and style then the "cascio singer". I also wrote that I'm a lot more likely to believe another soundalike then jason. so regardless of the leaks and the voice etc I don't see myself agreeing with it's "100% Jason" as the previous songs has never been "100% Jason" for me, they sounded different.

and I don't flip flop so easily... also as I believe already released songs not to be Jason , even though I hear something like Jason I would not classify everything as Jason. It would simply mean that "it's hard to determine".

I realize that most of you will jump with joy if you can convert / convince me. My opinion stands. If any real evidence surfaces and changes my opinion I'll be the first one to say. Until that day you'll have to live with the fact that I have a different opinion than you do.
 
ivy said:
as I wrote before I think that Jason has inferior technique and style then the "cascio singer". I also wrote that I'm a lot more likely to believe another soundalike then jason. so regardless of the leaks and the voice etc I don't see myself agreeing with it's "100% Jason" as the previous songs has never been "100% Jason" for me, they sounded different.

and I don't flip flop so easily... also as I believe already released songs not to be Jason , even though I hear something like Jason I would not classify everything as Jason. It would simply mean that "it's hard to determine".

I realize that most of you will jump with joy if you can convert / convince me. My opinion stands. If any real evidence surfaces and changes my opinion I'll be the first one to say. Until that day you'll have to live with the fact that I have a different opinion than you do.
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I don't know, you say they have different techniques but they sound identical to me.

I don't think I'd jump for joy if you became a doubter because it's just confusing why you'd think it's Michael, but I can see that if you haven't heard any of the other clips you wouldn't have a complete grasp on the situation.
 
Aniram said:
I don't know, you say they have different techniques but they sound identical to me.
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and they don't even sound remotely close to me

I don't think I'd jump for joy if you became a doubter because it's just confusing why you'd think it's Michael, but I can see that if you haven't heard any of the other clips you wouldn't have a complete grasp on the situation.
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like I said even if I did listen to them and came to the conclusion of "jason" it won't mean a thing as my evaluation of other songs will still be "not jason". I won't magically start hearing jason on monster if I haven't heard him there for a year. so even in that case it would leave me with "cannot be determined" outcome.

I personally would not jump to either side if I have conflicting opinions on these songs.

and correct my memory if I'm wrong: but didn't you believe for a while the vocals to be Michael? (or was that someone else?) so what is confusing about that? now that you changed your opinion you expect everyone to change it? you should be one of the people that's most open to the idea of other people hearing different stuff.
 
I am willing to find out a logical solution to this mess. So I really need a logical explanation to this:

-In the 80s when I heard for the first time a MJ song on the radio I immediately could recognize his voice from the first notes.
-In the same era, I even could recognize MJ's voice in any background chorus on other artists' songs without hesitation.

-In the 90s, it was the same thing. I could recognize his voice from the first notes.

-In the 00s too. The same situation.

-I've been listening to him daily throughout decades without ever doubting his vocals. I've been actually listening to his voice while it was evolving throughout years and years.

-The only time in three decades that I hesitated was when someone from this forum sent me a file in 2007 saying it was MJ, when actually it was Jason Malachi. I was so right to doubt back then.

-In 2010, I hear songs such as Breaking News and Monster and other Cascio songs, and I have exactly the same doubts I had in 2007. I hear exactly the same voice, which is Jason Malachi's.

Can anyone explain to me in all logic why I have been able to recognize MJ's slightest note when a new song came out in each era, and I don't hear him at all in any of the Cascio tracks except the obvious copy-pastes? This is what is making me sick with these songs. I haven't found a single plausible explanation except what my mind says: it is NOT Michael Jackson. Period.

So, where is the logic here? When I heard Monster for the first time I immediately frowned from the first notes, not even being sure at that time if the song was the Cascio song or not. I thought it was a joke or a fan made when it leaked on a hip hop blog.
 
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Ivy - as I have stated time and again. The songs are regularly uploaded to youtube and other streaming sites so you don't have to download them. I think you just don't want to listen for fear of having to admit your wrong. I presume you never heard Slave To The Rhythm or any other unreleased song then? If an unreleased track from the Invincible sessions were to leak, I'm sure you'd listen. Also, if you hear songs like Fall In Love, Ready 2 Win then you will realise just how flawed your whole "technique" argument is. Unfortuntately you are not fully informed in this debate, you are only hearing songs that have been "Michaeled" up, not the originals. And as as far as real evidence goes, there is an awful lot more evidence to suggest it is Jason than MJ. Identical accent, identical pronounciation, identical snorts. Excessive pasted in breathing, pasted in samples, pasted in adlibs. Statements from those who were at the listening session, statements from those who worked with Jason. The songs not being registered until more than a year after Michael died. Total lack of any proof from Cascio or Porte. Complete silence from Cupeta. Total absence of MJ trademarks from any take of any track. Vocals that we know were recorded by Michael in the same place and at the same time (WBSS 2008) that sound perfect and nothing at all like these songs. Lack of processing on the originals, despite this being the favoured excuse as to why they sound so odd. Where is the counter evidence to this? Show me one comparison to any song Michael has ever done where he sings as appallingly out of tune as he does on Water. Where he has the same shaky vibrato as Jason Cupeta, a vibrato that is natural ie it is not the result of processing. That's right, the vibrato is exactly what came out of the singers mouth. So is the pronounciation, accent etc. Why, on Ready 2 Win, did Michael start sounding decades younger, with an Italian American accent?
 
StellaJackson said:
Ivy - as I have stated time and again. The songs are regularly uploaded to youtube and other streaming sites so you don't have to download them. I think you just don't want to listen for fear of having to admit your wrong. I presume you never heard Slave To The Rhythm or any other unreleased song then? If an unreleased track from the Invincible sessions were to leak, I'm sure you'd listen. Also, if you hear songs like Fall In Love, Ready 2 Win then you will realise just how flawed your whole "technique" argument is. Unfortuntately you are not fully informed in this debate, you are only hearing songs that have been "Michaeled" up, not the originals. And as as far as real evidence goes, there is an awful lot more evidence to suggest it is Jason than MJ. Identical accent, identical pronounciation, identical snorts. Excessive pasted in breathing, pasted in samples, pasted in adlibs. Statements from those who were at the listening session, statements from those who worked with Jason. The songs not being registered until more than a year after Michael died. Total lack of any proof from Cascio or Porte. Complete silence from Cupeta. Total absence of MJ trademarks from any take of any track. Vocals that we know were recorded by Michael in the same place and at the same time (WBSS 2008) that sound perfect and nothing at all like these songs. Lack of processing on the originals, despite this being the favoured excuse as to why they sound so odd. Where is the counter evidence to this? Show me one comparison to any song Michael has ever done where he sings as appallingly out of tune as he does on Water. Where he has the same shaky vibrato as Jason Cupeta, a vibrato that is natural ie it is not the result of processing. That's right, the vibrato is exactly what came out of the singers mouth. So is the pronounciation, accent etc. Why, on Ready 2 Win, did Michael start sounding decades younger, with an Italian American accent?
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Because he was doing some stuff with Pavarotti? Here is the evidence:

[youtube]7Zci9vHAEMY[/youtube]
 
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