Judge Approves Pay Bump for Jackson Estate Execs

[Memefan]

Math?

2001 $14 million from two shows.


2009 (Randy Phillips) Michael would have made 50 million pounds from 10 shows alone.

50 million pounds equals $77 million US dollars.

Sorry but these numbers make no sense at all.

How the HELL would Michael Jackson be taking home 50M from 10 shows? Do you even know how many people can fit into the O2? Unless the ticket prices were averaging 250 pounds, that is utterly nonsensical.

O2 holds 20,000; assuming MJ's stage was miniscule (which it wasn't) and all seats would be used, they would need to sell all 20K seats at an average price of 250 pounds for the 10 SHOWS to bring revenues of 50M pounds.

Then we assume, AEG, the dancers, backup singers would all be working for free.

SMDH

If you were to assume MJ & AEG would each get 50M ...then tix average price would be 500 pounds. RIDICULOUS!!!!

 

[legacylegacy7]

This is it concerts wikipedia

 

[ivy]

This is it concerts wikipedia

everyone can edit wikipedia. it's not a reliable source. I gave you court documents that they estimated $1.4M per concert from tickets. Add another $1.4M per concert for merchandise. Then subtract costs and AEG's share. You'll get to something around $2Million per show - which is exactly the same amount they mentioned at restitution ($100M divided by 50 shows equals $2 Million)


in overall scheme probably
Michael would have made $100M from his 50 shows at O2
another $100M from another set of concerts
another $100M from another set of concerts
Another $100M from DVD/ movies
another $100M from an album

and that would bring his total to $500 Million over 5 years from 3 concert tours, movies/dvd and a new album.

 

[legacylegacy7]

Wikipedia did not make up what the person privy to that information said, but you "don't care".

 

[ivy]

To get back to topic- from probate notes.

SUMMARY
Petnr is GAL

FACTS -
During the 14 mo period covered by this petition 9/1/10 - 11/16/11), GAL has 60.7 hours of time at her usual hourly rate of 530 per hour in 2010 and 585 per hour in 2011. Seeks fees below.
Summary of hrs incl: a) issue of apptment of extr; b) projects and proposed projects in connection w/management of the estate; c) issue as to claim against the estate by Segye Times for enforcement of a judgment against Katherine Jackson; d) review of various fee petns that have been filed; e) misc accounting issues; f) review of info for tax audit. Given nature of issues, size of estate, and substantial time, reasonable to comp GAL at her customary hourly rate.

MATTERS TO BE CLEARED -
A. No spec ntc/copy (Siegel) o/w spec ntc/copy filed ok

RELIEF
1. JTD approving payment of fees to the GAL in the amount of 34,112.50 and costs of 1,115.20

PROB ATTY COMMENTS: Petn alleges will lodge for in camera review detailed time records - o/w T/T and defer for any responses/objs

What does this mean: Guardian ad litem - Margaret Lodoise says she worked around 61 hours in matters related to the estate and wants to be paid around $35,000.


Petitioner(s): Branca, John McClain, John

FACTS -
On 2/3/10, Court authorized Petnrs, to continue to operate Michael Jackson's businesses and in that connection to serve as the "Co-Executive and Creative Directors." The Order re Operating MJJ Business allowed compensation to Messrs. Branca and McClain "for their services as the Co-Executive and Creative Directors of the MJJ Business as follows: a total amount equal to 10% of the gross entertainment industry-related income received by the Estate..." Order Re Operating MJJ Business, 2:25. The Order Re Operating MJJ Business defined "gross entertainment industry-related income" and to exclude certain significant income sources. Mr. Branca's share of the compensation is paid to the entertainment law of which he is a partner, the Ziffren Firm. Mr. McClain's share the compensation is paid directly to him. Messrs. Branca and McClain waived any further statutory or extraordinary compensation for their services as personal representatives of the Estate. Messrs. Branca and McClain now request that the Court modify the Order Operating MJJ Business to provide that effective January 1, 2011, the compensation paid to Messrs. Branca and McClain for their services as the Co-Executive and Creative Directors will not cover general entcrtainment legal services (currently provided by the Ziffren firm) and further that compensation shall not cover the use of Mr. McClain's recording studio, Marvin's Room and equipment, rather that such services and costs will be paid separately.
This modification is requested due to the unexpected and increased demands on Messrs. Branca and McClain, for their management, Co-Executive and Creative Director services, and the Ziffren Firm for their general entertainment legal services, required for the continued operation of the MJJ Business, and the extraordinary results obtained and increasing benefits accruing to the Estate from these services. Requests modification below.

MATTERS TO BE CLEARED -
A. No spec ntc/copy (Siegel) o/w spec ntc/copy filed ok

RELIEF
1. JTD Modify the Order Re Operating MJJ Business to provide that effective January 1, 2011, the compensation to be paid to Messrs. Branea and McClain to continue to operate the MJJ Business as Co-Executive and Creative Directors as set forth in the Order Re
Operating MJJ Business will not cover or include general entertainment legal services (currently performed by the Ziffren Firm) or the cost of the use of Mr. McClain's recording studio, Marvin's Room or its equipment, which services and costs shall be paid separately;
2. JTD authorize the Co-Executive and Creative Directors to continue to retain the Ziffren Firm to perform General Entertainment Legal Services (excluding the services identified in the petn, which services will be performed by counsel other than the Ziffren Firm), and to compensate the Ziffren Firm for such services entertainment counsel, and compensate them at the rate of 3% of the gross entertainment industry-related income as defined in the Order Re Operating MJJ Business, or such other amount and in such manner as this Court shall order and allow.

what this mean: this is what the media reported. Ziffren payment and McClain's studio use is no longer going to come out from Executor's 10% share, they'll be paid separately.

 

[ivy]

Wikipedia did not make up what the person privy to that information said, but you "don't care".

It's easy to go to media and say many things. I can go to media and say that Michael Jackson was going to be paid in baby pink elephants. People can exaggerate, lie, make up stuff.

Court documents is another thing. They estimated $1.4 Million in their insurance calculation, they have mentioned an estimation of $2 million to judge pastor. They would bring detailed accounting in January 2012. I'm saying that court documents and agreements/contracts that people file under the threat of perjury and fraud will be a lot more reliable than wikipedia and media statements.

and even though the 10 shows could have brought $80million in gross revenues Michael had to pay back $40 million for production costs, $15 million advance as well. He would then have to pay the musicians, dancers and so on from that money. AEG would have been paid as well. You can see that there's a hugeeeee difference between gross revenues and the net amount of money you receive. and it's mathematically impossible for that $80 million to be net income Michael would have received. Ticket prices and O2 capacity doesn't make it even remotely possible.

 

[Memefan]

^ Ivy, if you have the new PDF documents can you please share them?

 

[ivy]

^ Ivy, if you have the new PDF documents can you please share them?

Probate? I don't have any documents for that. They are not available online. They just post hearing summaries online - what I posted above- during hearing dates.

the concert revenue estimation is from lloyds complaint file which has been around for months. It's not new.

 

[legacylegacy7]

A five year speculation projection plan was given. Yet "don't care" what the President of the company had to say.

 

[Memefan]

Probate? I don't have any documents for that. They are not available online. They just post hearing summaries online - what I posted above- during hearing dates.

the concert revenue estimation is from lloyds complaint file which has been around for months. It's not new.

Yeah, I was referring to new probate documents. Thank you

A five year speculation projection plan was given. Yet "don't care" what President of the company had to say.

Legacy, judge for yourself.

Do these numbers you reported here make sense?

Do your own calculation and come to your OWN conclusion. It's not that deep.

 

[legacylegacy7]

No speculation here. In March 2009 the whole media reported that Jackson was going to make $400 million in three years. Based on a 10 show start. They had no idea he would sell out 50 shows in withen hours.

So to ballance out Michael's amazing sell out tour they started claiming his debt was 400 million. True story

 

[legacylegacy7]

As demonstrated in the article we previously linked the media's projection that Jackson would make $400 million over a three year period only includes his deal with AEG. The tour and a thriller 3D movie. That money has nothing to do with the other business deals and contracts that he was working on. Certainly had nothing to do with his music publishing revenue.

 

[Bonnie Blue]

^^But the whole media is notoriously lazy (and negative) when reporting anything mj which is why you have your issue with them. They'll just parrot anything they find from any source, and run with it. Ivy's figures make perfect sense. I posted in another thread the top grossing tours for 2011 from billboard. It was only U2 who was making around $6m a show, and they were massive stadiums, the next was bon jovi who were prob doing stadiums as well and they were around $2.5m. An arena tour just wouldn't generate those revenues per show. It's just common sense.

I agree entirely that the media downplay mj's business achievements but there's no getting away from the fact he had 100s of $m of debt. We know it's not shopping trips but alot due to business investment in the atv catalogue, but mj was clearly finding it difficult to service the debt without selling his assets hence his selling a stake in neverland. His assets always outweighed his liabilities but it has to be admitted his cash flow was not great hence his need for this is it to generate new income.

Re the court papers submitted by the executors - alot of the legal work branca is/has been involved in is not just related to new estate projects but all the shennanigans from the family with howard mann/heal the world/getting a new executor/seyge times lawsuit. I hope the guardian is earning that money is keeping ppb's interests paramount.

 

[Memefan]

^^But the whole media is notoriously lazy (and negative) when reporting anything mj which is why you have your issue with them. They'll just parrot anything they find from any source, and run with it. Ivy's figures make perfect sense. I posted in another thread the top grossing tours for 2011 from billboard. It was only U2 who was making around $6m a show, and they were massive stadiums, the next was bon jovi who were prob doing stadiums as well and they were around $2.5m. An arena tour just wouldn't generate those revenues per show. It's just common sense.

I agree entirely that the media downplay mj's business achievements but there's no getting away from the fact he had 100s of $m of debt. We know it's not shopping trips but alot due to business investment in the atv catalogue, but mj was clearly finding it difficult to service the debt without selling his assets hence his selling a stake in neverland. His assets always outweighed his liabilities but it has to be admitted his cash flow was not great hence his need for this is it to generate new income.

Re the court papers submitted by the executors - alot of the legal work branca is/has been involved in is not just related to new estate projects but all the shennanigans from the family with howard mann/heal the world/getting a new executor/seyge times lawsuit. I hope the guardian is earning that money is keeping ppb's interests paramount.

Sony/ATV is a company.... all debts are Sony/ATV's....they are not part of MJ's own debts.

a corporation is a separate entity...it manages its own revenue, its own debt and pay its own taxes.

MJ couldn't have borrowed money FOR Sony/ATV....


Agree with everything else you wrote.

 

[legacylegacy7]

That five year projection makes sense, where did five years come from?

"Michael was worth 3 $billion so his debts where insignificant". Raymone Bain

Not that we are fans of Raymone Bain but she was in a good position to know that informtion.

 

[Autumn II]

I think you didn't understand it. Got a little confused?

Executors was supposed to get 10% and they were also paying their firms from that 10%. In other words from his 5% share Branca was paying Ziffren's costs and from his 5% share McClain was paying his studio and production costs.

So the Executors were receiving 7% as their personal fees - rather than the 10% they are supposed to get. They asked the Judge to adjust this.

So Judge allowed Ziffren's costs to be billed separately - 3%. McClain will be able to bill studio and production costs separately as well. (No percentage given for it).

So currently it's 5% for Branca, 5% for McClain, 3% for Ziffren firm and any future studio/production costs. If we assume the studio/ production costs are another 2-3 % it would bring it to 15-16% total. It's still a lot lower than the normal 20-30% if multiple parties, companies, managers etc were involved. For example if I'm not mistaken Raymone Bain herself alone was taking 15% when Michael was alive.

ATV revenues were never included, nor TII nor MIJAC. They only take percentage from what they bring in. Not from the assets Michael already had (ATV, MIJAC) and bring money on their own (with no action from Executors).

OK, that helps to explain. It does make sense that the executors are not getting revenues from income-streams already in place, i.e. ATV revenues. What is complex is the involvement of not only Branca, but his law-firm -- which I assume is supportive of the work-load involved in managing this vast estate. Must not be easy to break that down in terms of time spent? The good news is that the estate is moving forward, and growing, for the eventual benefit of Michael's children, and charities.

 

[Sophielo]

They deserve it, they've done a lot for the estate so well done to them.

 

[ivy]

OK, that helps to explain. It does make sense that the executors are not getting revenues from income-streams already in place, i.e. ATV revenues. What is complex is the involvement of not only Branca, but his law-firm -- which I assume is supportive of the work-load involved in managing this vast estate. Must not be easy to break that down in terms of time spent? The good news is that the estate is moving forward, and growing, for the eventual benefit of Michael's children, and charities.

there's a lot of work for sure. I think Branca's firm does all the business side of things, contracts and so on. In the last year's filings the other law firms - which looked after the other lawsuits, copyrights etc on total billed around 4 Million. Probably Ziffren also have a similar bill (Weitzman said it to be at least $2Million) and that's why they would pay it separately. This doesn't change Executor's 5%. It just means that legal and production costs will be paid separately.

"Michael was worth 3 $billion so his debts where insignificant". Raymone Bain

Not that we are fans of Raymone Bain but she was in a good position to know that informtion.

His assets are also filed in detail in the probate court. It's not $3 billion. And LMAO thinking Raymone Bain is credible. She didn't pay taxes for 3 years, she got around $800,000 from Michael and signed that satisfied his debt to her and then sued him saying he owes her $40 Million. I would say mathematics or finance isn't her strong suit either.

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Sony/ATV is a company.... all debts are Sony/ATV's....they are not part of MJ's own debts.

a corporation is a separate entity...it manages its own revenue, its own debt and pay its own taxes.

MJ couldn't have borrowed money FOR Sony/ATV....

That's interesting, i just assumed whenever sony/atv bought a new catalogue, half the purchase price wd go onto mj's debt. MJ had alot of debt then - i think he had alot of bad investment advice in mid-late 90s. There seemed to be the plans with middle eastern people for theme parks that never saw the light of day.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Court docs when mj was refinancing around 07 said after debt his assets were around 1.3 billionmj supposedly had alot of investments go tits up after 911 when markets crashed then add in the losses from the war with sony and then 03-05 its easy to see how things started to spiral until plans were put in place around 08

 

[Memefan]

That's interesting, i just assumed whenever sony/atv bought a new catalogue, half the purchase price wd go onto mj's debt. MJ had alot of debt then - i think he had alot of bad investment advice in mid-late 90s. There seemed to be the plans with middle eastern people for theme parks that never saw the light of day.

Never....When Sony/ATV buy a new catalogue, it goes in their Assets column and whatever money it borrowed to make the purchase goes into his liabilities on the balance sheet.

This has absolutely nothing to do with MJ's personal finance...aside from him receiving dividends (whenever that may be) from S/A


Sony/ATV, a limited liability company, is a stand alone entity. They contract their own debt against their own revenue.

Sony/ATV LLC. could file for bankruptcy tomorrow....and it would still be responsible for its own debts, creditors and taxes.

A Limited Liability Company (LLC) is a business structure allowed by state statute. LLCs are popular because, similar to a corporation, owners have limited personal liability for the debts and actions of the LLC. Other features of LLCs are more like a partnership, providing management flexibility and the benefit of pass-through taxation.

An LLC is a business entity created under state law that can shield you from personal liability.

 

[legacylegacy7]

Ivy,

That quote was in response to someone else. Although we disagree with Raymones amount the importance of what she said about "debt" was the main point. Since you you did respond tell us where the five year projection came from?

 

[ivy]

That was probably why my brother received almost everything he asked for in a long-term deal worth a guaranteed minimum payment of $36.5 million “with an upside potential of $300 million” based on ticket sales and other attached projects, which included a three-movie deal. From what I understood, he also made sure that a $15 million fee was built in as a down-payment on his new Vegas home.

Jackson, Jermaine (2011-09-13). You Are Not Alone (p. 408). Touchstone. Kindle Edition.

“After that, I will be done—done!” he said, looking toward an official musical retirement age of 55. Then he’d crack Hollywood with his movie ideas.

exciting plans to keep him busy until 2014.

Jackson, Jermaine (2011-09-13). You Are Not Alone (p. 409). Touchstone. Kindle Edition.


55-50 = 5 years. 2014 - 2009 = 5 years. Jermaine says that it's 3 concert tours with 3 movies promising $300M.

Also let's see Randy Phillips

He estimates Jackson will make $50m-$100m from the London dates. This could rise to $500m if he does a world tour.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...s-promoter-is-making-all-the-right-moves.html

Randy Phillips, estimated Jackson would make up to US$100m from the 50 London concerts - perhaps rising to US$500m for a world tour.

http://news.sky.com/home/showbiz-news/article/15327857

You can also see that Randy Phillips alwasy estimated Michael's share from concerts to be between $1 - $2 Million per show. World tour is what Jermaine was mentioning in his book.

 

[Victory22]

Good for them they totally deserve this raise.

 

[love is magical]

Never....When Sony/ATV buy a new catalogue, it goes in their Assets column and whatever money it borrowed to make the purchase goes into his liabilities on the balance sheet.

This has absolutely nothing to do with MJ's personal finance...aside from him receiving dividends (whenever that may be) from S/A


Sony/ATV, a limited liability company, is a stand alone entity. They contract their own debt against their own revenue.

Sony/ATV LLC. could file for bankruptcy tomorrow....and it would still be responsible for its own debts, creditors and taxes.

So, The Estate of Michael Jackson owns 50% shares of Sony/ATV LLC, not a 50% partner. I always thought Sony/ATV is a partnership, not LLC.
Big difference between partnership and LLC. Debts assumed by the partnership are partners' liabilities.

Since Sony/ATV is privately held company, it doesn't need to disclose its finanical information to the public. Complete financial info is not readily available. So, does anyone know whether the expansion of Sony/ATV in the past was financed through leverage or additional capitals from shareholders? When a company increases its investments, it can increase both assets and liabilities. Or, increase asets and shareholders' equity. If the expansion is financed by additional capital, then Michael might have borrowed money to put in more capital in Sony/ATV. Or else, his shares might have been diluted once the company got bigger.

 

[legacylegacy7]

British tabloids?

 

[Ben]

I think the income has increased due to interest in Michael after his death.

Of course, but I also believe a real comeback, with a tour that would have been successful without a doubt, would have brought as much, if not more money. It would have increased, renewed, or created an interest in Michael too, and lasting much longer IMO.

 

[ivy]

British tabloids?

I had already posted the court documents, you seem like you cannot comprehend.

if you start pushing me, I'll do a mathematics for dummies post and start posting from probate documents about Michael's assets and debts.

 

[legacylegacy7]

Ivy,


So you "don't care" what Randy Phillips says. Unless tabloid.....

 

[love is magical]

Of course, but I also believe a real comeback, with a tour that would have been successful without a doubt, would have brought as much, if not more money. It would have increased, renewed, or created an interest in Michael too, and lasting much longer IMO.

I agree with you and Ivy. Yes, the income generated from the Estate is benefited from the revived interest in Michael's catalogue after Michael's death.

However, if Michael would have completed a successful This Is It concert series in London and brought the tour around the world, he would have brought in substantial amount of money as well. He could have released an album of new material. So, public interest in both his new music and past catalogue would have been high in a longer period of time. Well... this is just my guess. Who knows? I mean who would know what the popular music scene was like if Michael did not pass away in 2009...

Also, I find most of the media intentioanlly ignore to report the assets owned by Michael the time he passed away. Like everyone of us, Michael had his own personal balance sheet. People kept on reporting the liability side. But, what the asset side looks like? When Michael made an investment, he could either pull fund from one asset account to another or increase liability to fund the investment (leverage). Many media sensationize the headlines by insinuating that Michael had debts to pay expenses. However, it's not necessarily the case.

May be the probate documents can shed some lights.