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Michael - The Great Album Debate

I wasnt invovled becuase i wasnt at the thread at the time, but i read over it and....you know i just want this Cascio thing to end. look at all the bickering amoung the fans. Infact look at the past 3 pages. If the debate could end now....why would anyone withold information.
 
I agree - But I will say with all certainty no one here has information they are "withholding" that would help this discussion or end the debate. That would truly be a God send though ..

A few who post in here from time to time are not in here to help either. They will provide nothing but arrogant admonishments or proclaim to have inside info just to draw attanetion to there own self proclaimed importance. (They never provide anything productive to help) There are a few who do the work and are really seeking answers. Some are doing lots of work looking at it from all sides to make sense of it all. but I will also say maybe some in here are not seeking the truth at all but just seeking what will boost their own view. because I see good info from both sides fluffed off or ignored becuase some refuse to look at anything that doesn't support thier view. If we do the work to seek truth .. most likely we will find it quicker.

I wish someone unbiased could gather all info from both sides and we could look at it all objectivley. As we stand right now no one has actual prooof one way or another. Thats why we are all still here hoping one day proof will come or be found. Its truly sad how this has divided and cause hard feelings in the fanbase. But I will say that for the most part doubters and believers get on quite well in this thread. They have become even fond of each other becuase they have been discussing this for a loooong time now and getting to know each other past this topic. Everyone defends there view and I hope Most just want the truth .. no matter what that may be. Those who were actually involved in all this dont make it easy for fans seeking information either .. now do they ?
 
I don't think that this thread should be closed as long as it remains unsolved. The silence from Jason's and Eddie's side about our questions are as heavy as a volcano about to erupt. This thread is like a crater allowing the lava to come out rather than to jam it and risking it to find other holes around.

If some people derail with their provocative claims dangling the so cold info they have and playing like a cat would play with a mouse, then they should be taken care of like some other fans were in the past accordingly. This thread is quite much open and luckily tolerates fierce argumentation and even gives the right to people to be angry, but honestly no one should take advantage of it to conduct their personal grudge against soem members who are even not here to defend themselves.

I think that if people have some info should share it as we have been doing it so far or simply shut up. Using this platform as a personal vendetta is indeed counterproductive.

Now back to topic,

Jason Malachi, no one is gonna lynch you. Come up and say what you have to say.
Eddie Cascio, your brother Frank has more guts. Come forward and answer our questions, because the fanbase is divided worldwide. YOur brother had to step in for you in Paris. It's time for you to step in for yourself.
 
^
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Because apparently a seed of doubt was planted and because of that we are brainwashed into believing that we hear JM's voice.
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MJJLatvia said:
Oh.. lol :) Maybe we are hypnotized.
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What does my comment had to do with Korgnex? o_O
I was replying to Bumper by the way.

''And look at the language on some of folowing posts and judge yourself.'' Am I being rude or disrespectful?
 
Of course, but let's all be a bit more friendly to one another ;), it can not be so difficult... we all love Michael and the beautiful things he did to this world. I think that's our priority. Of course we can have constructive critisism on how Michael's things, such as releases, are handled but it can as easy be done in a more constructive and less bitter way against each other. But maybe I am too naive a person.
 
Chamife said:
priority #1: keeping this thread open.
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If this thread closes i will cry a thousand tears.


and on a good note, i appluad Frank for making a good attempt to anwser our questions, even though he wasnt there, and had nothing to do with the tracks. I think he did some good. We also learned that when he heard "whatever version of BN it was" he didnt recognize it was Michael at first. If Frank can do it, so can Eddie.
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
If this thread closes i will cry a thousand tears.


and on a good note, i appluad Frank for making a good attempt to anwser our questions, even though he wasnt there, and had nothing to do with the tracks. I think he did some good. We also learned that when he heard "whatever version of BN it was" he didnt recognize it was Michael at first. If Frank can do it, so can Eddie.
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I feel Frank isn't entirely honest. Sorry to say so.

So, he didn't recognize Michael in the songs, but didn't adress that to his brother? Why doesn't he mention his brothers name, but only Jason Malachi? His brother is responsible for the tracks! Why does he say that the only thing he's guilty of is getting Michael doing things he does best again? Who's talking about someone being guilty? Is someone guilty of something?

He has no problem dragging the Jacksons through the dirt as a family to Michael. Nooo....

And this: Read between the lines, read between the lines..Sorry, but SMH. I'm not interested in anything he has to say. Oh..and..he talks too much for his own good.
 
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CORY ROONEY?@CORYROONEY @Justice_MJ @pentummj I'm here to help!! Been working on some things that should have an impact.


Hoping he has actually been working on some things and isn't just saying it.
 
Some have advocated that MJ's voice sounded different because it was recorded in that amateur studio Angelikson. Now, I was just re-watching the Oprah & Cascios interview. Eddie goes down the stairs and actually enters his studio with the Oprah TV crew and talks on camera in the very studio. His voice should have changed like supposedly Michael's, but actually didn't change a bit.

So my question is why MJ's voice would sound different in that studio and Eddie's not at all?
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Some have advocated that MJ's voice sounded different because it was recorded in that amateur studio Angelikson. Now, I was just re-watching the Oprah & Cascios interview. Eddie goes down the stairs and actually enters his studio with the Oprah TV crew and talks on camera in the very studio. His voice should have changed like supposedly Michael's, but actually didn't change a bit.

So my question is why MJ's voice would sound different in that studio and Eddie's not at all?
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It was about the recording equipment that was amateuristic and the reason for Michael's voice to sound different. That's what I always thought what was meant. Not how Michael's voice sounded in that room?
 
I wonder if MJ sounded like Jason when talking in the mic at the Cascios house.

Seriously though, Frank in that recent video confirmed that WBSS new vocals was indeed recorded at their house using their studio.

So how come, the voice sounds different to the other recordings done at the same time using the same recording studio?
 
Chamife said:
It was about the recording equipment that was amateuristic and the reason for Michael's voice to sound different. That's what I always thought what was meant. Not how Michael's voice sounded in that room?
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I highly doubt that Oprah's camera crew had better portable mics with them for the interview than what was actually available in the studio.
 
StellaJackson said:
They are the original demos. They are exactly what was collected from Eddie Cascio. Eddie himself probably had earlier mixes, but as far as what Sony acquired, they are the originals.
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True, which is why they wouldn't really be the original demos. Sony would have received the already tampered with versions, as opposed to the original recording sessions.
 
I think it went: Original Masters -> Original Masters tampered with, and saved (Original Master lost/unusable/destroyed) [Michael's Death] Tampered with versions are the only ones in existance and handed over to Sony -> Producers work on early mixes (the leaks we have heard) -> Album Versions -> Future ???
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
I think it went: Original Masters -> Original Masters tampered with, and saved (Original Master lost/unusable/destroyed) [Michael's Death] Tampered with versions are the only ones in existance and handed over to Sony -> Producers work on early mixes (the leaks we have heard) -> Album Versions -> Future ???
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I don't see any reason to believe that anything was tampered with or destroyed. It seems that what happened is that Michael did not record songs that had originally been recorded by James Porte, despite Eddie wanting him to. Then Michael dies and the Porte versions are registered with Michael's name tacked on as co-writer and co-performer along with Porte and Eddie (they are all given equal credit). Over the course of the next 9 months, four more songs are written and the entire lot is recorded with Malachi on leads and the finished tracks (complete with all copy pastes) are registered in April 2010, divided up into the original compositions as one registration and the newly written songs as another. They are then offered to Sony/Estate for a million dollars a piece, who jump at the chance as they are desperately searching for material.
 
StellaJackson said:
I don't see any reason to believe that anything was tampered with or destroyed. It seems that what happened is that Michael did not record songs that had originally been recorded by James Porte, despite Eddie wanting him to. Then Michael dies and the Porte versions are registered with Michael's name tacked on as co-writer and co-performer along with Porte and Eddie (they are all given equal credit). Over the course of the next 9 months, four more songs are written and the entire lot is recorded with Malachi on leads and the finished tracks (complete with all copy pastes) are registered in April 2010, divided up into the original compositions as one registration and the newly written songs as another. They are then offered to Sony/Estate for a million dollars a piece, who jump at the chance as they are desperately searching for material.
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Nice theory.

Does anyone know how much it'll cost for an expert to examine the tracks and compare them to other Michael Jackson songs?
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Nice theory.

Does anyone know how much it'll cost for an expert to examine the tracks and compare them to other Michael Jackson songs?
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Even if the forensic tells you it is not MJ singing, many believers will still believe it is MJ only because the officials say it is him. So don't waste your money. Anyway forensic audio analysis is not an exact science.
 
StellaJackson said:
I don't see any reason to believe that anything was tampered with or destroyed. It seems that what happened is that Michael did not record songs that had originally been recorded by James Porte, despite Eddie wanting him to. Then Michael dies and the Porte versions are registered with Michael's name tacked on as co-writer and co-performer along with Porte and Eddie (they are all given equal credit). Over the course of the next 9 months, four more songs are written and the entire lot is recorded with Malachi on leads and the finished tracks (complete with all copy pastes) are registered in April 2010, divided up into the original compositions as one registration and the newly written songs as another. They are then offered to Sony/Estate for a million dollars a piece, who jump at the chance as they are desperately searching for material.
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We know that they've been tampered with though. We received information earlier in this situation that they couldn't just record Jason singing a full song, he doesn't sound enough like Michael to fool anyone that way. So they most likely did multiple takes to get a line to sound right, which we've been told by our own researchers (that's what I'll call them from now on). After doing that for all twelve songs, they put them together, made a complete song out of fragments, and added genuine Michael ad-libs and maybe the odd line from when he was actually singing while being recorded there. One could argue they pitched the voice before sending it to Sony, whatever the case may be, the original demos would be the fragments of lines, they'd be Jason singing the songs prior to Michael's ad-libs being added in.


That's not what Sony got, they got the complete songs made out of the fragments of Malachi vocal and a Michael line and his ad-libs. Remember when Teddy said he had to pitch Monster because when he received it from the Cascio's it was a slower song? This shows in the leaked snippet of the supposed "raw demo". And while it is in slower pitch, the instrumentation is similar to that used in the final version. Which may tell you, that before these songs were sold to Sony or given to the producers, they were touched up, edited to an almost near final version that Eddie himself and whoever else involved in the scheme would've been comfortable with. The raw demoes, the fragments of lines, the original recording sessions, have yet to come forward, it's what they claimed was "deleted", as it's the sole thing that would prove this matter once and for all. And I think those things are missing for a reason.
 
WhoIsIt89 said:
We know that they've been tampered with though. We received information earlier in this situation that they couldn't just record Jason singing a full song, he doesn't sound enough like Michael to fool anyone that way. So they most likely did multiple takes to get a line to sound right, which we've been told by our own researchers (that's what I'll call them from now on). After doing that for all twelve songs, they put them together, made a complete song out of fragments, and added genuine Michael ad-libs and maybe the odd line from when he was actually singing while being recorded there. One could argue they pitched the voice before sending it to Sony, whatever the case may be, the original demos would be the fragments of lines, they'd be Jason singing the songs prior to Michael's ad-libs being added in.


That's not what Sony got, they got the complete songs made out of the fragments of Malachi vocal and a Michael line and his ad-libs. Remember when Teddy said he had to pitch Monster because when he received it from the Cascio's it was a slower song? This shows in the leaked snippet of the supposed "raw demo". And while it is in slower pitch, the instrumentation is similar to that used in the final version. Which may tell you, that before these songs were sold to Sony or given to the producers, they were touched up, edited to an almost near final version that Eddie himself and whoever else involved in the scheme would've been comfortable with. The raw demoes, the fragments of lines, the original recording sessions, have yet to come forward, it's what they claimed was "deleted", as it's the sole thing that would prove this matter once and for all. And I think those things are missing for a reason.
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Yes I totally agree. However, I don't think the outtakes of Jason recording are missing. They are just something that Eddie will obviously never make public. As I said before, if it was really Michael on these songs, and judging by the number of takes they used, it is a fact that there would be numerous outtakes, including Michael talking aout the recording etc, just as we hear on many other demos. The fact that those outtakes have never materialised would suggest they don't exist. There is no logic in not releasing them. There is just no evidence of any kind that Michael recorded anything in these 12 songs.
 
^ Speeding up the tempo is not the same as pitching the voice.

Monster is not pitched up from the slowed version. It's just a higher tempo.
 
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