Michael - The Great Album Debate

This is what my friend told me. I pretty much transcribed what he told me over the phone into this. I apologize if this informatin was already said:)

Primarily planning and ideas for the Michael album began shortly after the This Is It album dropped back in October 2009. However, full production and research of unreleased tracks didn't begin until early on in the first quarter of 2010. The Estate contacted various producers, such as Brad Buxer and Neff-U, for unreleased songs to include.

At some point, Eddie Cascio was notified about the impending album and managed to get in contact with someone at the Estate about twelve unreleased tracks that Michael supposedly recorded in 2007. Seeing as how the Cascios were close friends with Michael throughout the last thirty years (give or take) of his life, as well as having their own personal message to him in his memorial booklet in July 2009, it seemed easier to believe them. My friend doesn't know what happened in the initial listening sessions for the songs, but he doees know that Eddie asked for $12 million -- $1 million per song. Seeing as how the Estate didn't have that kind of money, he was supposedly paid $5 million, less than half his original demand, for all twelve songs. He finds it odd that no one seemed to stand up and say, "Hey, this isn't Michael."

The Estate then shopped around for producers for the songs. Apparently, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis were the first producers asked to rearrange Breaking News, but declined, as they didn't believe that it was Michael singing. After a few weeks of shopping around, producers were finally lined up: Teddy Riley produced Breaking News, Monster and Burn Tonight; Tricky Stewart produced Keep Your Head Up and Stay; Burt Bacharach produced All I Need. The remaining six songs (Water, Ready 2 Win, All Right, Soldier Boy, Fall in Love, Black Widow) were either considered and dropped or not considered all together. The six re-produced Cascio tracks were reportedly submitted towards the end of summer 2010, with Breaking News, Monster and Keep Your Head Up chosen. All three songs were given a complete "musical makeover" (as my friend calls it); most notably Monster which, while its original demo was a mid-tempo hip hop track, became a fast-paced dance song. As the Estate wanted to include more material from the last few years of Michael's life, three tracks from the original track listing (which included Slave to the Rhythm) were removed in order to include the Cascio tracks.

As it's been said before, the a cappella vocals on the tracks were extremely different from Michael's previous works; there was no footstomps or handclaps, no vocal breaths or gasps or headphone bleed. Apparently, people were banned from entering the studio while the Cascios were being produced; according to my friend, Teddy Riley was inserting clipped and sampled vocal gasps from the Invincible album's a cappellas, so as to make the tracks sound more authentic (my friend believes that Teddy is aware that the tracks are a fraud). A small, somewhat private listneing party was held in the early fall of 2010, with many of Michael's friends in attendence. While the Estate claimed that they all confirmed that the producers (such as Dr. Freeze and Bruce Swedien) confirmed that Michael was singing, I have been told that they all agreed that the vocals on the tracks sounded "odd;" however, no one, apparently, came out and said that they did not believe Michael was singing on the tracks.

It was very mysterious regarding the history of the tracks. Eddie, in the only interview he ever gave with Oprah Winfrey in 2010, as well as in the Making of MICHAEL album preview, has contradicted himself various times. In one incident, he claimed that Michael came "ready to work" in the beginning of 2007; however, Michael didn't show up at the Cascio home until the end of summer 2007. Worktapes of the Cascio tracks, including vocal outtakes and Michael speaking to Eddie about the songs, have been rumored to be released many times, but are believed not to exist. Also, the Cascio a cappellas are placed together from sometimes no more than 8 takes of the same verse; according to my friend, an portion of an unused take from "Burn Tonight" features Malachi's (who my friend believes is singing on the tracks) voice cracking during the ad-libs.

Also, apparently, the track listing was this:

Hold My Hand
Hollywood Tonight
???
(I Like) The Way You Love Me
???
Best of Joy
Slave to the Rhythm
(I Can't Make It) Another Day
Behind the Mask
Much Too Soon

Breaking News kicked Slave to the Rhythm off, while my friend doesn't know the names of the two songs that were also kicked off.
 
Thanks for the info, AT. Most of it is already known, but something was new. Where does your friend work again/how does he has access to such information?

"an portion of an unused take from "Burn Tonight" features Malachi's (who my friend believes is singing on the tracks) voice cracking during the ad-libs."

Was this voice cracking taken out in Teddy's version? Or taken out of the demo?
 
Another point though - pretty much all the songs in the Michael album don't have fingersnaps, handclaps or footstops or anything.
 
You don't know that. The music might be too loud to hear. Sometimes you have to strip them to hear random stuff in the background or just very good headphones. Also, they listened to a cappellas.
 
There's just no way Jason Malachi isn't singing on these songs.

I listened to Keep Your Head Up for the first time in a year the other day, it wasn't as painful as I thought it was going to be. When I heard the chorus, at first I thought I faintly heard Michael in the background singing "Keep your head up tonight", but when the second one came around I wasn't as sure, it's too faint and hard to tell for me, but it could be that he's in the far background there.

However, I heard the little snippet of "Water" again. It's so blatantly Jason, the "what am I, what am I to do?" at the end of the snippet is so out of tune and shaky sounding, it's standard Jason Malachi. I just don't get it, it's ridiculous.

Oh and I was going to mention it sounds like such a Cry Me A River ripoff and what the fudge?
 
I think it would be amazing if we would be able to create a list with all the copy-pasted words in every song. I think I'll do it tomorrow.
 
Breaking News:

:04 - "ah"

:09 "hoo!"

:13 - "tah"

:17 - "ow!"

:21 - "ah"

:25 - "ah"

:28 - "ha"

Oh man this is hard...
 
This is what my friend told me. I pretty much transcribed what he told me over the phone into this. I apologize if this informatin was already said:)

Primarily planning and ideas for the Michael album began shortly after the This Is It album dropped back in October 2009. However, full production and research of unreleased tracks didn't begin until early on in the first quarter of 2010. The Estate contacted various producers, such as Brad Buxer and Neff-U, for unreleased songs to include.

At some point, Eddie Cascio was notified about the impending album and managed to get in contact with someone at the Estate about twelve unreleased tracks that Michael supposedly recorded in 2007. Seeing as how the Cascios were close friends with Michael throughout the last thirty years (give or take) of his life, as well as having their own personal message to him in his memorial booklet in July 2009, it seemed easier to believe them. My friend doesn't know what happened in the initial listening sessions for the songs, but he doees know that Eddie asked for $12 million -- $1 million per song. Seeing as how the Estate didn't have that kind of money, he was supposedly paid $5 million, less than half his original demand, for all twelve songs. He finds it odd that no one seemed to stand up and say, "Hey, this isn't Michael."

The Estate then shopped around for producers for the songs. Apparently, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis were the first producers asked to rearrange Breaking News, but declined, as they didn't believe that it was Michael singing. After a few weeks of shopping around, producers were finally lined up: Teddy Riley produced Breaking News, Monster and Burn Tonight; Tricky Stewart produced Keep Your Head Up and Stay; Burt Bacharach produced All I Need. The remaining six songs (Water, Ready 2 Win, All Right, Soldier Boy, Fall in Love, Black Widow) were either considered and dropped or not considered all together. The six re-produced Cascio tracks were reportedly submitted towards the end of summer 2010, with Breaking News, Monster and Keep Your Head Up chosen. All three songs were given a complete "musical makeover" (as my friend calls it); most notably Monster which, while its original demo was a mid-tempo hip hop track, became a fast-paced dance song. As the Estate wanted to include more material from the last few years of Michael's life, three tracks from the original track listing (which included Slave to the Rhythm) were removed in order to include the Cascio tracks.

As it's been said before, the a cappella vocals on the tracks were extremely different from Michael's previous works; there was no footstomps or handclaps, no vocal breaths or gasps or headphone bleed. Apparently, people were banned from entering the studio while the Cascios were being produced; according to my friend, Teddy Riley was inserting clipped and sampled vocal gasps from the Invincible album's a cappellas, so as to make the tracks sound more authentic (my friend believes that Teddy is aware that the tracks are a fraud). A small, somewhat private listneing party was held in the early fall of 2010, with many of Michael's friends in attendence. While the Estate claimed that they all confirmed that the producers (such as Dr. Freeze and Bruce Swedien) confirmed that Michael was singing, I have been told that they all agreed that the vocals on the tracks sounded "odd;" however, no one, apparently, came out and said that they did not believe Michael was singing on the tracks.

It was very mysterious regarding the history of the tracks. Eddie, in the only interview he ever gave with Oprah Winfrey in 2010, as well as in the Making of MICHAEL album preview, has contradicted himself various times. In one incident, he claimed that Michael came "ready to work" in the beginning of 2007; however, Michael didn't show up at the Cascio home until the end of summer 2007. Worktapes of the Cascio tracks, including vocal outtakes and Michael speaking to Eddie about the songs, have been rumored to be released many times, but are believed not to exist. Also, the Cascio a cappellas are placed together from sometimes no more than 8 takes of the same verse; according to my friend, an portion of an unused take from "Burn Tonight" features Malachi's (who my friend believes is singing on the tracks) voice cracking during the ad-libs.

Also, apparently, the track listing was this:

Hold My Hand
Hollywood Tonight
???
(I Like) The Way You Love Me
???
Best of Joy
Slave to the Rhythm
(I Can't Make It) Another Day
Behind the Mask
Much Too Soon

Breaking News kicked Slave to the Rhythm off, while my friend doesn't know the names of the two songs that were also kicked off.

The six reproduced Cascio tracks weren't submitted by the end of summer as Teddy Riley didn't even start working on his until August 29th. He worked on KYHU for one day and then rejected as he felt it wasn't Michael. He then moved onto Breaking News, Monster, Burn 2Nite and much to his relief, a real track in the form of Hollywood Tonight. I'm not sure about that tracklist. I know Tricky Stewart reproduced Slave To The Rhythm. I really hope it wasn't replaced by BN because that is absolutely crazy. Remember there were other songs considered as well from various sources including Love Never Felt So Good, Blue Gangsta, Do You Know Where Your Children Are, She Was Lovin' Me, Place With No Name, I was The Loser etc.

Also, about the pasted adlibs. This info isn't accurate. Teddy Riley didn't insert any adlibs from previous records. This was done by Stuart Brawley in May before the estate received the songs.

The info about the money is partially correct. The asking price was indeed 1 million per track but they didn't even get 5 million. They actually got around 100,000 per track.
 
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Breaking News:

:04 - "ah"

:09 "hoo!"

:13 - "tah"

:17 - "ow!"

:21 - "ah"

:25 - "ah"

:28 - "ha"

Oh man this is hard...

Haha. A proper transcription with all the inserts is something that will be revealed at some point. It will show exactly where each insert appears and where it comes from.
 
Haha. A proper transcription with all the inserts is something that will be revealed at some point. It will show exactly where each insert appears and where it comes from.

Do you really think a transcription made by people who KNOW will be made?
 
Do you really think a transcription made by people who KNOW will be made?

What do you mean? I personally know where every adlib is taken from as I have torn these tracks apart. If you know your MJ like the back of your hand then it isn't hard.
 
What do you mean? I personally know where every adlib is taken from as I have torn these tracks apart. If you know your MJ like the back of your hand then it isn't hard.

Did the same. I was talking about some of the words. Water "dangerous". "dang" seems to be taken from Michael's song. Same goes to Keep Your Head Up at "every time she feels this way". Way seems also to be copy pasted.

I won't get into the unreleased tracks.
 
There's just no way Jason Malachi isn't singing on these songs.

I listened to Keep Your Head Up for the first time in a year the other day, it wasn't as painful as I thought it was going to be. When I heard the chorus, at first I thought I faintly heard Michael in the background singing "Keep your head up tonight", but when the second one came around I wasn't as sure, it's too faint and hard to tell for me, but it could be that he's in the far background there.

However, I heard the little snippet of "Water" again. It's so blatantly Jason, the "what am I, what am I to do?" at the end of the snippet is so out of tune and shaky sounding, it's standard Jason Malachi. I just don't get it, it's ridiculous.

Oh and I was going to mention it sounds like such a Cry Me A River ripoff and what the fudge?

"Keep you head up tonight..." is Porte. I know what you mean about Water. I would say Fall In Love is the worst though. I have a comparison that uses a line from that song with an almost identical line from a JM song. It is so obvious. Same vibrato, accent, everything.
 
Did the same. I was talking about some of the words. Water "dangerous". "dang" seems to be taken from Michael's song. Same goes to Keep Your Head Up at "every time she feels this way". Way seems also to be copy pasted.

I won't get into the unreleased tracks.

All the adlibs are taken from Invincible tracks and out takes. They are the only multi tracks they had access to. So nothing from the Dangerous track. And "way" is Jason.
 
All the adlibs are taken from Invincible tracks and out takes. They are the only multi tracks they had access to. So nothing from the Dangerous track. And "way" is Jason.

What about the "Rock With You", "Scream", "Ghosts", "Get It" (Ha!) from Monster?
 
What about the "Rock With You", "Scream", "Ghosts", "Get It" (Ha!) from Monster?

Where is Rock With You sampled? And Scream? Ghosts is from the movie not the song. Also, Ha is not from Get It.
 
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Where is Rock With You sampled? And Scream? Ghosts is from the movie not the song.

"Rock With You" is sampled in the first chorus

"Monster, he's a monster (Mhmmm...ah!)" - RWY intro

Also

"Everybody wanna' be a star (Uhuuu *Don...something*) - short adib from "Scream" (don..etc)

What about the "Hoo" from "On The Line"? Not an Invincible outtake.
 
"Rock With You" is sampled in the first chorus

"Monster, he's a monster (Mhmmm...ah!)" - RWY intro

Also

"Everybody wanna' be a star (Uhuuu *Don...something*) - short adib from "Scream" (don..etc)

What about the "Hoo" from "On The Line"? Not an Invincible outtake.

The RWY one does sound similar I know. But I'm certain it isn't. Remember that Jason was copying all of MJ's grunts and sounds. Some things that sound like adlibs are actually Jason. The pasted adlibs were put in to embelish the tracks. Jason already did a lot like the hee hee hee in BN.

Also, it is entirely possible that Teddy Riley, who would have greater access to more multi tracks, would insert more things in to the songs that he worked on in order to "Michael" them up because we know he had strong doubts. Whereas Brawley put the Invincible words and adlibs in before the fact.
 
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The RWY one does sound similar I know. But I'm certain it isn't. Remember that Jason was copying all of MJ's grunts and sounds. Some things that sound like adlibs are actually Jason. The pasted adlibs were put in to embelish the tracks. Jason already did a lot like the hee hee hee in BN.

I really doubt this. The RWY sounds exactly like the one from OTW just down pitched. I think it was demonstrated by geso on max-jax that the adlibs were copy pasted.

The hee-hee-hee from BN sounds like a f*cked up version (melodyned) and down pitched version of ITC.

Coming back to the adlibs, there are also adlbs from TDCAU on Souja Boy and also Why You Wanna' Trip On Me? (Babe!)
 
I really doubt this. The RWY sounds exactly like the one from OTW just down pitched. I think it was demonstrated by geso on max-jax that the adlibs were copy pasted.

The hee-hee-hee from BN sounds like a f*cked up version (melodyned) and down pitched version of ITC.

Coming back to the adlibs, there are also adlbs from TDCAU on Souja Boy and also Why You Wanna' Trip On Me? (Babe!)

You might be right on the other but the hee hee hee is not from ITC. I edited my previous post.
 
You might be right on the other but the hee hee hee is not from ITC. I edited my previous post.

The only catch that may appear here is that Riley doesn't have acces to the HIStory multitracks (Soldier Boy) or the Off The Wall ones. Now it comes to my mind that even Tricky added "Earth Song" adlibs to "Keep Your Head Up".
 
The only catch that may appear here is that Riley doesn't have acces to the HIStory multitracks (Soldier Boy) or the Off The Wall ones. Now it comes to my mind that even Tricky added "Earth Song" adlibs to "Keep Your Head Up".

No but Sony might. It would make sense for the songs to have more added after the fact. Jason finished laying his vocals down on March 5th, and they registered them on March 18th. Brawley didn't put his adlibs in until May and then the others did their work when they got the songs in late August/early September.
 
I still think it's ironic how the Estate took down Nathan Jay's brilliant Take Me Away and said they don't approve of putting words in Michael's mouth, yet that's exactly what the Cascio tracks do.

I still listen to Take Me Away on a daily basis, I really feel like that's a song Michael would be happy about.

Also, good to see this thread bustling a little bit. I was bummed at how dead it's become.
 
As much as I tried not to get in this thread because of the bad mood which was induced because of the arguing, it was a pleasure to debate with you guys today.

I am happy to see that this thread came back to life.
 
You guys are forgetting that RWY a cappella is available everywhere. Same with TDCAU.

The "hoo!" in Monster, I used to believe was from On The Line too, but after TPImaster showed me how it's not, I changed my minD.

The "Ha!" is not from Get It, it doesn't match (tested by TPIM).
 
I still think it's ironic how the Estate took down Nathan Jay's brilliant Take Me Away and said they don't approve of putting words in Michael's mouth, yet that's exactly what the Cascio tracks do.

I still listen to Take Me Away on a daily basis, I really feel like that's a song Michael would be happy about.

Also, good to see this thread bustling a little bit. I was bummed at how dead it's become.

I was thinking about that today. Can't believe they were so rude to him when the Cascio tracks do the same thing.
 
You guys are forgetting that RWY a cappella is available everywhere. Same with TDCAU.

The "hoo!" in Monster, I used to believe was from On The Line too, but after TPImaster showed me how it's not, I changed my minD.

The "Ha!" is not from Get It, it doesn't match (tested by TPIM).

It has to be, lol. I think geso made a test for this too.
 
I was thinking about that today. Can't believe they were so rude to him when the Cascio tracks do the same thing.
Maybe it's because it's his actual vocals all through the song, but I really really feel Michael's energy throughout it when I listen, like he was overseeing it's creation in spirit. That song is like Michael reaching over and giving us one more.

I know it's kind of off-topic, but I just really love that song. "To where the sun is always shining, and the sky is always blue. I want to live somewhere that's beautiful, and I wanna be there with you."

I love the lightness of the delivery there, it sort of floats and it's just yummy, Michael's voice is like a drug that makes me feel really good and happy, even if it's in a copy-and-paste.
 
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