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Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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mjchris said:
what is a "delaware company"?
that was mentioned on tuesday. michael jackson company is a delaware company. so what is that?
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Delaware is a state. A Daleware company si based in that state, for tax and legal resaons.
 
Soundmind said:
Lee was a NURSE who said no while the DOCTORS said yes .
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Yeah, the same NURSE Michael called when he was feeling cold on one side and hot on the other side.

I guess all of the doctors were unavailable that day, so Michael's only option was to call a lowly nurse! Yeah, that's what probably happened.
 
Big Apple2 said:
Yeah, the same NURSE Michael called when he was feeling cold on one side and hot on the other side.

I guess all of the doctors were unavailable that day, so Michael's only option was to call a lowly nurse! Yeah, that's what probably happened.
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do you mean that Michael started to suspect Murray ?
 
Big Apple2 said:
Yeah, the same NURSE Michael called when he was feeling cold on one side and hot on the other side.

I guess all of the doctors were unavailable that day, so Michael's only option was to call a lowly nurse! Yeah, that's what probably happened.
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Well, if it makes you feel better she was more knowledgeable about propofol than the rest of them . That's why she told him first she had no idea what propofol was . So he trusted her vast knowledge because reading a book equaled going to medical school .-_-
 
Big Apple2 said:
I thought Ratner might have been one of the German doctors Debbie mentioned yesterday. I guess not.

What's his back story again?
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For some time he has been blamed as being the one who introduced Michael to Propofol.

Jackson traveled with what amounted to a mini-clinic, complete with an IV pole and an anesthesiologist who medicated the insomniac singer during his HIStory tour in the mid-'90s, sources close to Jackson told CNN Thursday.
The information sheds new light on perhaps the central unanswered question in Jackson's death: Were prescription drugs involved?
On Thursday, the California attorney general's office said it is helping the Los Angeles Police Department in the death investigation.
The U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration is also looking into the role of drugs, two federal law enforcement sources said a day earlier.
Authorities do not know what killed Jackson and await toxicology results, which are due back in two to three weeks, the Los Angeles County coroner said Thursday.
Whether or not drugs played a role in the singer's death, the accounts of the sources who spoke to CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta show that Jackson was -- at least in the past -- routinely administered potent drugs to help him sleep.
Speculation about the role of drugs has been swirling since Jackson died on June 25, and the sources who spoke with Gupta about the HIStory tour seemed to fuel the fire.
The anesthesiologist who accompanied Jackson during the 82-date world tour in 1996 and 1997 was Dr. Neil Ratner, the sources said.
They said Ratner would keep medical equipment in his hotel room, which he used to monitor Jackson's vital signs when the singer was asleep or "under," as one source put it.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/07/03/jackson.wrap/index.html

I don't know what is rumour and what is truth, but there is a lot of info out there on him.

ETA This one is better - mentions Michael travelling with two doctors.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/02/acd.02.html

 
Big Apple2 said:
Who knows, but it does make me think about that SECRET tape Murray made of Michael. What the heck was that all about, some sort of insurance perhaps?
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If he suspected Murray, that makes me think of the pressure he was under, and the whole situation in the last week of june, that could have made him think he had no choice
.
 
Joyce said:
I didn't know that people were not aware that MJ and Debbie knew each other for about 20 years. Aside from being his wife, Debbie was the Mother of his children, his friend, and more than likely his guardian too. To me, that's very close.

There were so many doctor's over the years who gave MJ strong pain medication that I feel if it weren't for Debbie, we would have lost MJ many years before we did. It seems as tho MJ was in a terrible position. He had to prepare for TII, but he was desperate for sleep and only Propofol worked for him, so in his desperation, he just trusted Murray to save him, and Murray did not save him. :(
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Debbie said in her testmoney that Michael needed a strong voice and she was that strong voice at the time but what happen in the end Michael was alone he couldn't trust anybody he was under alots of pressure he still had the sleep problem that got worst. If only their had gotting Michael the help that he neede for his sleep problem he wouldn't have needing Propofol to sleep at night. Only One Strong Voice Michael need to hear.
 
Soundmind said:
Well, if it makes you feel better she was more knowledgeable about propofol than the rest of them . That's why she told him first she had no idea what propofol was . So he trusted her vast knowledge because reading a book equaled going to medical school .-_-
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Yeah, and ALL of those doctors who went TO medical school are the very ones who caused all of the problems to begin with.

Leading the path directly to DOCTOR Conrad Murray.

Go figure!
 
Michael needed a strong person at his side someone who loved him for being Michael not Michael Jackson. He was surrounded by leeches and crooks.
 
Big Apple2 said:
Yeah, and ALL of those doctors who went TO medical school are the very ones who caused all of the problems to begin with.

Leading the path directly to DOCTOR Conrad Murray.

Go figure!
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What are you guys arguing about? That Michael disregarded everything and only heard whatever he wanted to hear from the doctors? If that's the case than I'm guilty of the same thing.
 
twinklEE said:
What are you guys arguing about? That Michael disregarded everything and only heard whatever he wanted to hear from the doctors? If that's the case than I'm guilty of the same thing.
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Nah, we not arguing, we just killing time until today's testimony get's posted. LOL!

On a serious note, I'm guilty of that as well.

And speaking of having a strong person by his side, makes me think "what the heck did Grace have?"

I don't know if she was strong or not, but she did appear to be with Michael longer than anybody else. Even when he would fire her, she would always end up being re-hired.
 
So was Ratner actually on the History tour? And if so why did they need to bring in others?
 
I notice from the news posted so far today that Debbie is talking about Paris' suicide attempt and how Paris "no longer has a father" and Paris "no longer has a life."

The jury has got to be thinking: "well what about YOU, they still have a Mother."

As a woman and a Mother, in my opinion she should not be revealing too much about Paris' present situation on the witness stand, it doesn't put Debbie in a very positive light.

That just adds to her testimony from yesterday wherein she said that she told Grace "if Michael doesn't look good, keep him away from the baby." She was in a sense leaving her child's well being and security in the hand's of the Nanny. Not a very good look for a new Mother, in my opinion.
 
Big Apple2 said:
I
That just adds to her testimony from yesterday wherein she said that she told Grace "if Michael doesn't look good, keep him away from the baby." She was in a sense leaving her child's well being and security in the hand's of the Nanny. Not a very good look for a new Mother, in my opinion.
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Didn`t Michael tell it to Grace?

Rowe said that he told Grace if MJ didn't look ok to not let him alone with the baby.
 
Annita said:
Didn`t Michael tell it to Grace?

Rowe said that he told Grace if MJ didn't look ok to not let him alone with the baby.
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I'm not sure now, maybe I read it wrong, in any event it's still strange.

Why would Michael tell the Nanny "if I don't look okay, don't leave me with the baby." Did he think that a time would come wherein he didn't think he would be okay enough to be around the baby by himself. That's just weird.

In my opinion, it sounds more realistic if that was an instruction given to the Nanny, from the Mother.
 
I'm very glad that Debbie is talking about Michael's skin condition and that he DID NOT bleach his skin.

I don't expect to see many headlines stating same, but still thankful that her voice has now been added to all the others who have testified about Michael's skin problem.
 
Big Apple2 said:
I'm very glad that Debbie is talking about Michael's skin condition and that he DID NOT bleach his skin.

I don't expect to see many headlines stating same, but still thankful that her voice has now been added to all the others who have testified about Michael's skin problem.
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I hope the Jackson's are listening, since even some of them had accused him of bleaching his skin. (Word to the badd,)
 
LastTear said:
Debbie has finished, I wonder who is up next.
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LOL! LastTear, you beat me to it. I was just about to ask the same question.

And WOW, cross-examination didn't take up too much time. Looks like they got her off the stand as quickly as possible.

Where's Randy Jackson, maybe AEG can put him on the stand now that Debbie is finished. LOL! Just kidding.
 
I would guess the cross revolved around the children's loss, what kind of father Michael was. :-(
 
LastTear said:
I would guess the cross revolved around the children's loss, what kind of father Michael was. :-(
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Yes, basically that's what it came down to.

I'm just glad she's finished. I don't like her talking about Paris on the witness stand

To my knowledge (I could be wrong) there has been a blackout on Paris Jackson updates. As it should be, and I pray that blackout continues.
 
Big Apple2 said:
I notice from the news posted so far today that Debbie is talking about Paris' suicide attempt and how Paris "no longer has a father" and Paris "no longer has a life."

The jury has got to be thinking: "well what about YOU, they still have a Mother."

As a woman and a Mother, in my opinion she should not be revealing too much about Paris' present situation on the witness stand, it doesn't put Debbie in a very positive light.

That just adds to her testimony from yesterday wherein she said that she told Grace "if Michael doesn't look good, keep him away from the baby." She was in a sense leaving her child's well being and security in the hand's of the Nanny. Not a very good look for a new Mother, in my opinion.
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I don't think that's entirely fair because although Debbie is the biological mother of Prince/Paris, she is not the guardian and the jury likely knows that. Debbie has no legal standing with Paris & Prince unless she challenges Katherine's guardianship, which may not be a bad idea given the lack of care and attention shown to all of Michael's kids. I don't think Debbie is the answer to a change in guardianship (Diana Ross is better imo), and she's apparently been a great support to Paris during her hospitalization, but she has no responsibility for her welfare. That's Katherine's job.

Debbie's said this about Paris today: "She is devastated," Rowe said. "She tried to kill herself. She is devastated. She has no life. She doesn't feel she has a life anymore."

This is heartbreaking. Although it may be viewed as an invasion of Paris' privacy, maybe she is saying it on the witness stand, under oath, for a good reason. The truth about Paris (that it was a suicide attempt) needs to be told for her own protection--not to the media but in an appropriate forum--instead of the Jackson family "spin" to serve their own purposes. The family has not confirmed what happened, and remember, this happened before and she went to UCLA with no apparent follow up treatment. The Jacksons hide a lot and hiding a cry for help is not a safe option for Michael's kids. imo
 
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I enjoyed reading some parts of Debbies testimony. She humanized Michael and explained things in a good way imo. I hope the jurors and ppl in the courtroom got an understanding for Michael and what he had to go through.

Just the way she said vitiligo can be hard for anyone but for someone like MJ who was very shy it was difficult. Its easy for ppl to judge without trying to understand what that person is going throuhh.


She said he never doctor shopped and she explained all the procedures on his scalp after he burnt it.

"“The very rich, very poor and the very famous get the worst medical care,” she said Thursday. “The very rich can buy it, the very poor can’t get any and the very famous can dictate it.”

When asked if she thought Jackson dictated his medical care to his own doctors, Rowe said, “When it came to pain, I wouldn’t say it was dictating. I would say it was more begging for relief.”
 
Vici;3887867 said:
When asked if she thought Jackson dictated his medical care to his own doctors, Rowe said, “When it came to pain, I wouldn’t say it was dictating. I would say it was more begging for relief.”
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In my opinion, Debbie contradicted herself a bit during today's testimony.
 
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