To Be Realisitic

[Billyjeanplxiv]

I haven't made a thread in a long time. I rarely post here now, but if I have something to say...ill share my thoughts.

Id like to ask fans to be realistic. I've heard some were under the impression that future Michael Jackson material will be untouched. I was under the opposite impression.
I'm not the Estate, I don't know everything, I'm just putting my three cents in the pot.

Michael was a subpar to decent release depending how you view it. At about 2.5 Million copies sold is pretty good. We all know everyone's thoughts on that release.

Bad25 was an excellent release. The Estate, threw us a bone. We Got EVERYTHING we asked for. Sure the concert was VHS quality....but we asked for it and we got it. We Also got Michaels Demos untouched from that era.

~However, Bad25 was a FAN TREAT. It wasn't suppose to be a big seller. The Estate threw us a Bone. They made some money.
The Estate is around to make money, having every project like Bad25 would kill them financially.
~Releasing Michaels posthumous albums as Disc one being remixes, and disc 2 being untouched demos....would kill them financially, and we will have LESS material for the future. Why people STILL insist this occur, I can't fathom.
~Releasing MJ's unfinished tracks is tricky business. A Duet album would be nice for tracks that have a chorus and one verse by Michael...not a finished track like STTR. Even though the Bieber thing is unofficial.....that was wrong. Its a good example how people would react to having a complete MJ Rock genre track from 1989 remixed and released by someone MJ didn't know.

With talk of Timbaland producing an MJ album, the thought again emerges of..."he didn't know MJ. MJ didn't know him. have someone that knew MJ work on the project."
It would be nice of the person KNEW Michael. However, Teddy Riley, Eddie Cascio, Akon, and Lenny Kravitz knew Michael....how did their mixes turn out on the Michael album?

I am ALL for Timbaland producing the next album, in fact in excited. He did well with JT's recent project (may I remind you all, JT looks up to MJ). And if Michael Durham Prince, and Brad Buxer are along for the ride...I bet the next album would be killer.

So, can we all just make these posthumous releases the best they can be. For NEW fans, for positive atmosphere and great MJ releases. We only have so much material left, and it would be a shame if everyone was up in arms on every single release. We WILL get the material untouched one day. Maybe not now, or in ten years. But we will.
If we can wait 9 years for the follow up to Invincible, im sure being spoon feed material, will hold us off long enough to listen to untouched magic.

 

[jtabbott8]

I think that is why a collectors label (see this thread http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...interested-in-an-official-MJ-collectors-label) would be a win win situation. It gives us hardcore fans material we want, without the estate having to promote, make mainstream, in any way. If the cost of items on the collectors label is more.. So be it. Because the casual Michael Jackson fan, isn't really interested in seeing Rehearsal footage, or In the studio footage, Or alternate takes and demos.. But the hard core fans are, which is why the collectors label would be a WONDERFUL idea.. everyone wins.

I'm with you on the Timberland thing though, i'm actually excited about that, and if Michael Prince and Brad Buxer help with the album, there is no doubt in my mind the album will be fantastic.. The most important thing is to do it with love, as cliche as that may sound.. When Kenny Ortega was cutting the This Is It film, he said "Michael's presence was with us everyday in the cutting room" thats how they need to go about ALL of the projects.

 

[Billyjeanplxiv]

The collectors label is a good idea. i wouldnt put it out now. maybe 10-20 years from now. Id rather get through this first deal until 2017, and past all these crazy trials.

I would like to see In Studio footage.

 

[HIStory]

~Releasing Michaels posthumous albums as Disc one being remixes, and disc 2 being untouched demos....would kill them financially, and we will have LESS material for the future. Why people STILL insist this occur, I can't fathom.

I agree with what you write, except the above quoted. I don't know why it would kill them financially. It doesn't have to be that a 2nd CD with the demos is attached to every remix CD that is bought. But they could release a deluxe version of every new album and so hardcores would have a chance to buy the delux version. There are a lot of albums put out which have also delux versions with extras for hard core fans. So I can't see why this would kill the Estate financially.

 

[Billyjeanplxiv]

Because the Estate only has X amount of material. Once a song is released. That's is.
Artists around today can put out deluxe albums because they can still record. Michael can't

~Somewhere it was stated when Michael recorded a song, he did the first verse and chorus. If he liked it, he went on. This is the example of Hollywood Tonight.
He liked it, but worked on it and worked on it. But never recorded the second verse and bridge. Hollywood Tonight is 1 take from 1999, with some recording in 2007...I think. Im not sure.

Its more profitable for the estate to release the posthumous albums with remixes, then much later released the untouched versions on greatest hits, collections, collectors labels etc etc etc.

 

[HIStory]

^ Maybe you are right, but I think just remixes would be a shallow treat to hard core fans. I'm interested in Michael's music, Michael's vision of a song, not someone else's. So I'm not sure I can get too excited about remixes ALONE.

 

[Zakk]

i think the collectors label should be brought into fruition at the end of the sony contract in 2017, fans are dying to see what they have in the archive and i would pay a lot of money for hd footage.. unreleased untouched song's etc. i hope they make it happen! for michael's legacy

 

[TheEternalMoonwalker]

Sure, the estate has to be very careful with what they release. Like you said, once it is released, it's one song less they can throw out there. Therefore, every release has to be well-planned and thought through. I think that the estate will not simply release unreleased matierial anymore unless it's the quality of what we heard on Bad 25. Those songs were pretty much finished and were fine for the release.

If they want someone like Timbaland to work on Michael's stuff, they should do the following: Release Timbaland's versions on on CD/online and release Michael's demos exclusively online. I think it's pretty simple and won't hurt anyone. This way, the public would get a fresh and finished product by a big name in the industry (Timbaland) and the real fans can also enjoy what's left of Michael's recordings.

 

[HIStoric]

I'm pretty happy with the 2 Disc idea to be honest. You could have just a 1 Disc standard edition and then the 2 Disc Deluxe version. Disc 2 has the original versions of the songs that are on Disc 1.

That way the Estate don't lose any extra songs (as they've already been released on Disc 1) and Michael's fans still have access to the original demos if they want to

 

[Billyjeanplxiv]

They would be using too much material at once. -.-

plain and simple. This material has to last for awhile.

 

[mjjmsc]

I think the Estate has hundreds and hundreds of unrealesed songs...some of them almost finished, some of them in early stages...anyway it is very hard to please everybody...the fans want to hear untouched demos, the public wants to hear finished songs that would climb the charts, the Estate wants to make money and preserve Michael's legacy...now, the big question is what Micheal would have wanted?

 

[dam2040]

LOL @ Timberlake respects MJ. Probably does because it's cool again to look up to him but I remember in 2003 him getting offended with the comparisons. Don't agree with the released = done thing because Hollywood Tonight could easily be released as the original version. There's things like that and if they are remixing songs for a new album, meaning released = done.. why can't they include the originals? It's not using all resources. It's just using the songs already done/released for that album.. not a whole new disc of other demo's.

 

[AlwaysThere]

I think the Estate has hundreds and hundreds of unrealesed songs...some of them almost finished, some of them in early stages...anyway it is very hard to please everybody...the fans want to hear untouched demos, the public wants to hear finished songs that would climb the charts, the Estate wants to make money and preserve Michael's legacy...now, the big question is what Micheal would have wanted?

That's the public opinion. The estate does have about one hundred songs left, but they're missing dozens of others, particularly songs that were recorded in Michael's final years. Until they get all of them (which, considering some of the people are withholding them, is going to be quite a wait), they need to be careful with how much material they release.

And when you think about it, Michael wouldn't have wanted his original demos released. He felt that his demos weren't up to his standards and he didn't want them released until they were finished. Think about it, only on ONE occasion did he ever release songs that were unfinished: on The Ultimate Collection, and that was just because he had to give Sony something to get off his contract. He even reworked For All Time before he put it out and that song was only missing the bridge. In a way I can easily imagine Michael approving of his work being finished, so long as it doesn't defer from something he himself would have done. That's why I approve of Best of Joy and (I Like) The Way You Love Me.

Just think about it: if he was here, would Michael have approved the release of the original Hollywood Tonight demo, in which he doesn't sing at full strength, mumbles through sections and talks to the engineers, or the Throwback Mix, where it at least FEELS like a full song?

LOL @ Timberlake respects MJ. Probably does because it's cool again to look up to him but I remember in 2003 him getting offended with the comparisons. Don't agree with the released = done thing because Hollywood Tonight could easily be released as the original version. There's things like that and if they are remixing songs for a new album, meaning released = done.. why can't they include the originals? It's not using all resources. It's just using the songs already done/released for that album.. not a whole new disc of other demo's.

Just because Justin got offended at the comparisons doesn't mean he doesn't respect Michael. If you're an artist trying to make your own sound and you keep getting compared to someone else, wouldn't you be pissed off? Just like Justin Bieber, who loves Timberlake but gets annoyed when the two are compared.

Sure, the estate has to be very careful with what they release. Like you said, once it is released, it's one song less they can throw out there. Therefore, every release has to be well-planned and thought through. I think that the estate will not simply release unreleased matierial anymore unless it's the quality of what we heard on Bad 25. Those songs were pretty much finished and were fine for the release.

If they want someone like Timbaland to work on Michael's stuff, they should do the following: Release Timbaland's versions on on CD/online and release Michael's demos exclusively online. I think it's pretty simple and won't hurt anyone. This way, the public would get a fresh and finished product by a big name in the industry (Timbaland) and the real fans can also enjoy what's left of Michael's recordings.

I do agree with this idea to an extent. It wouldn't hurt to include the original version as an iTunes exclusive, or maybe as a B side to the single. But as far as setting aside a whole disc? Nah.

 

[HIStory]

And when you think about it, Michael wouldn't have wanted his original demos released. He felt that his demos weren't up to his standards and he didn't want them released until they were finished. Think about it, only on ONE occasion did he ever release songs that were unfinished: on The Ultimate Collection, and that was just because he had to give Sony something to get off his contract. He even reworked For All Time before he put it out and that song was only missing the bridge. In a way I can easily imagine Michael approving of his work being finished, so long as it doesn't defer from something he himself would have done. That's why I approve of Best of Joy and (I Like) The Way You Love Me.

Now you are speculating about what Michael had wanted and what he hadn't. We don't know at all if he would be OK with others finishing his songs and whether he would approve of those versions. Let's not project our own preferences onto Michael.

 

[PurdyYungThang84]

^ Maybe you are right, but I think just remixes would be a shallow treat to hard core fans. I'm interested in Michael's music, Michael's vision of a song, not someone else's. So I'm not sure I can get too excited about remixes ALONE.

EXACTLY. I'm willing to see what folks can cook up, but I'm kinda already ::meh:: about it lol. I know that's unfair/biased and I know the estate is gonna search for ways to keep that income coming in, not to mention other artist wanting to build onto what Michael left. Just, I dunno..... knowing that it should've been MJ but it's not and won't ever be gives me a case of the sads lol. It's unrealistic to think they'd let stuff just sit in a vault for forever, and I don't feel like his unfinished work should have an impenetrable forcefield around it either...

I suppose I just hate reminders of his absence....

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

I haven't made a thread in a long time. I rarely post here now, but if I have something to say...ill share my thoughts.

Id like to ask fans to be realistic. I've heard some were under the impression that future Michael Jackson material will be untouched. I was under the opposite impression.
I'm not the Estate, I don't know everything, I'm just putting my three cents in the pot.

Michael was a subpar to decent release depending how you view it. At about 2.5 Million copies sold is pretty good. We all know everyone's thoughts on that release.

Bad25 was an excellent release. The Estate, threw us a bone. We Got EVERYTHING we asked for. Sure the concert was VHS quality....but we asked for it and we got it. We Also got Michaels Demos untouched from that era.

~However, Bad25 was a FAN TREAT. It wasn't suppose to be a big seller. The Estate threw us a Bone. They made some money.
The Estate is around to make money, having every project like Bad25 would kill them financially.
~Releasing Michaels posthumous albums as Disc one being remixes, and disc 2 being untouched demos....would kill them financially, and we will have LESS material for the future. Why people STILL insist this occur, I can't fathom.
~Releasing MJ's unfinished tracks is tricky business. A Duet album would be nice for tracks that have a chorus and one verse by Michael...not a finished track like STTR. Even though the Bieber thing is unofficial.....that was wrong. Its a good example how people would react to having a complete MJ Rock genre track from 1989 remixed and released by someone MJ didn't know.

With talk of Timbaland producing an MJ album, the thought again emerges of..."he didn't know MJ. MJ didn't know him. have someone that knew MJ work on the project."
It would be nice of the person KNEW Michael. However, Teddy Riley, Eddie Cascio, Akon, and Lenny Kravitz knew Michael....how did their mixes turn out on the Michael album?

I am ALL for Timbaland producing the next album, in fact in excited. He did well with JT's recent project (may I remind you all, JT looks up to MJ). And if Michael Durham Prince, and Brad Buxer are along for the ride...I bet the next album would be killer.

So, can we all just make these posthumous releases the best they can be. For NEW fans, for positive atmosphere and great MJ releases. We only have so much material left, and it would be a shame if everyone was up in arms on every single release. We WILL get the material untouched one day. Maybe not now, or in ten years. But we will.
If we can wait 9 years for the follow up to Invincible, im sure being spoon feed material, will hold us off long enough to listen to untouched magic.

The BEST way to approach it! Reasonable and objective observed.

I completely agree with what you are saying here! Thank you!

I also wish for the untouched material at some point in time. Either as an accompanying second disc for each newly released album. Or later as a 'Complete Career Spanning Demo Collection Box Set'.

But if there a recordings which need SOME modernizing sound, or completing of the instrumental track, than they should do it.
They however should just DO NOT mess with the vocals, DO NOT change the melody (because the melody is the most important thing) & DO NOT change the theme of the song & it's message.