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[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Petrarose said:
^^Yeah but in court they have to show that this particular action by the 2 shakedowners was the cause of the suffering which was a direct cause of them going to therapy. They can't say they had a crisis before, like Paris with the suicide attempt^^, because the attorneys for the other side will argue that her issues stem from prior causes and has nothing or little to do with the current case. They will say she was fragile mentally prior to this, and on, and on. The kids would have to show that they could not attend school due to the distress; show hospitalization & therapy; show how their functioning decreased; like failing school grades, difficulty sleeping, difficulty with daily living skills, and all this has to be tied to what Wade & Chuck did. Of course we don't know everything, but there is no indication now that these things has happened to them.
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Paris's suicide attempt was after Wade made his allegations. Of course, only she could tell if it played a part in any way, but she was bullied online by haters - among others because of Wade's allegations against her father. But this is theoretical anyway. We don't know if Paris would want to file a lawsuit like that or not.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It would be pretty tough for her if she did, and we'd have another media circus. :(
 
Toddler Fish. @invincislay · June 13th

"Long as God knows I'm an innocent man now" #VictoryDay
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

respect77 said:
Paris's suicide attempt was after Wade made his allegations. Of course, only she could tell if it played a part in any way, but she was bullied online by haters - among others because of Wade's allegations against her father. But this is theoretical anyway. We don't know if Paris would want to file a lawsuit like that or not.
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Exactly, and her suicide has to be tied to Wade. We do not know that. We had people/media/family claiming a lot of things, like bullying, the AEG case, a concert, dad's death, haters. In fact, an opposing lawyer would most likely argue that it was brought on due to her father's death because she began cutting prior to the Wade or AEG incident. I mean there is so much that we don't know, but all I am saying is that there needs to be a direct link. That is why Prince had to show the impact the death had on him in court when Panish was going after the emotional damages. I mean don't get me wrong I want someone to sue these guys so that it would help stop the allegation cycle. However, to do that certain criteria has to be met on the side of the parties who would sue, and it must show the emotional damages/distress and there has to be a Direct link to the Wade/Chuck lies. You can't use prior suicide unless you can show it ONLY happened due to Wade. In other words, she has to say I tried to kill myself because Wade did this, and we don't know.

I don't think any of the kids what to file this type of lawsuit, but someone brought it up so we are discussing.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

do you need an expert to tell you a child will be devastated to know his dad is accused of molesting children ? People file lawsuits everyday and the easiest claims are those physiological claims. Any expert will have plenty of material to support their case.

Provided that Paris is willing to go through it. I am pretty sure the kids will defend MJ to death, on the other hand the Jacksons won't make any $$$$ from suing Wade or anyone else related to these molestation claims .

Murray KILLED mj , they did not even need to spend a penny to get a judgment against him . Look what they did .

If they don't start to sue, it will get crazier and crazier.


If they can't sue a man who under oath said the opposite , when they would ?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^Yeah but in a court of law you still need the experts, even though it is a given that a kid will be devastated. That is why we see all the experts in court from every field imaginable.

I mean, if one of the kids was my ward, before the Muarry verdict, since I knew Muarry would be found guilty, I would have them in therapy and begin getting the stage set for a case on behalf of the children, rather than suing AEG for money. Because, as we saw in court the kids can show a lot of emotional damage due to the death. It all depends on one's priority. Then once Wade story hit, I would do the same thing, so that if the case did make it to court and Wade lost, I would then sue since I had the kids already set going to therapy based on what would be happening to them due to Wade's claim. However, they are not my wards, and I guess no one see this as something to be attacked and end with such ferocity except the fans, and we are not the guardians.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Taj Jackson had a rough time over Wade's allegation, he could be a possible person to sue them. Wade's allegation caused him to publicly admit on twitter that he was abused and that would have changed his life forever. Admitting something like that because you want to defend someone you love is huge! Not sure if he ever went to a therapist over it but still.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

seany said:
Any news on the June 13th court date?
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I wouldn't expect any news because these are minor issues and most of the time during a hearing judge listens to both sides and takes it under consideration and makes a decision later.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I guess we will know what the Judge decided when they unseal Safechuck's complaint. Considering the Judge decided to unseal Wade's I expect that his decision will be to unseal this one too. I guess we will have Safechuck's complaint in a redacted version in about one-two weeks.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

respect77 said:
I guess we will know what the Judge decided when they unseal Safechuck's complaint. Considering the Judge decided to unseal Wade's I expect that his decision will be to unseal this one too. I guess we will have Safechuck's complaint in a redacted version in about one-two weeks.
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It's disgusting that we have to talk about ANYONE's "complaints"
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I wonder how many inconsistencies we'll find with Safechuck's story? There's bound to be some, the fact that he joined Wade's terrible lawsuit is already a mark against him, anyone with credibility would never want their name on something like that.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^What I always find comical, for lack of a better word, is when the Estate replies and outline all the inconsistencies. I always find the responses to be more interesting that the actual complaint, maybe because the response sort of picks it apart.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

MJresearcher said:
I wonder how many inconsistencies we'll find with Safechuck's story? There's bound to be some, the fact that he joined Wade's terrible lawsuit is already a mark against him, anyone with credibility would never want their name on something like that.
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I actually wonder if they won't unseal it because they worry that people will find the inconsistencies like they did with WR's claims. Granted, it might be hard to do so since he lived a quiet life outside of showbiz, which is what really worries me. >.<

Also, I know people had shot down the AEG connection stuff, but I found this:
https://mjjtruthnow.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/wade-robson32.jpg

He was employed by that MSA agency until September 2012... Devi Lovato's tour ran from June 2012 to March 2013. His breakdowns were in March 2012, correct? Granted, he could've been out on personal leave since then and was therefore not there for the tour at all, but I don't know... are we sure there's no possibility of him receiving some kind of under-the-table payment thing?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Amaya said:
I actually wonder if they won't unseal it because they worry that people will find the inconsistencies like they did with WR's claims.
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It's not up to Safechuck whether it will remain sealed or not. The Judge will decide that, not Safechuck. Wade wanted to remain sealed but the Judge decided it won't. Safechuck too wants it to remain sealed but I expect the Judge's decision will be the same as with Wade: unsealed but redacted.

Also, I know people had shot down the AEG connection stuff, but I found this:
https://mjjtruthnow.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/wade-robson32.jpg

He was employed by that MSA agency until September 2012... Devi Lovato's tour ran from June 2012 to March 2013. His breakdowns were in March 2012, correct? Granted, he could've been out on personal leave since then and was therefore not there for the tour at all, but I don't know... are we sure there's no possibility of him receiving some kind of under-the-table payment thing?
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This means nothing at all. Everyone and their mother in showbiz works with AEG. The Jacksons sued them, yet some concert they recently did was organized by AEG. Until there is more proof of AEG paying him off it's nothing but a weak and desperate conspiracy theory by some fans. There is absolutely no proof this has anything to do with AEG. And the AEG trial is long over. So why is Wade still going on then? Doesn't make any sense.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Unfortunately I think it will be harder to defend against Safechuck's claims since we know very little about him, Wade is well known, testified at the trial, and gave numerous interviews defending MJ.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Gold Pants Girl said:
Unfortunately I think it will be harder to defend against Safechuck's claims since we know very little about him, Wade is well known, testified at the trial, and gave numerous interviews defending MJ.
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Safechuck too was intreviewed by the police at least back in 1993. He obviously did not make any claims against MJ back then otherwise he would have been listed as one of the victims by the prosecution. Moreover he hang out with Michael and LMP in 1994 during the HIStory trailer. Just because he did not testify it does not mean he is not on the record denying these allegations. Most certainly he is.

Also, in 2005 he was a 27 years old adult man. So he too will have it hard to explain why he would make these claims now, amongs monetary demands and when the accused cannot defend himself, when he had his chance back in 2005 as a 27 adult man at a criminal trial where he could have helped another boy and he could have stopped an alleged molester. But of course testifying at a criminal trial for someone else does not pay money... To get around statues of limitations he will also have to make claims similar to Wade's about only recently realizing he was abused. Both being represented by the same lawyer this could sound suspicious and a bit too convenient to a jury. The tale will probably be that seeing Wade on TV talking about his alleged abuse triggered the memories in him. But again it will be hard to explain why two rounds of very public allegations in 1993 and 2005 did not trigger anything in him, but seeing Wade on TV talking about a lawsuit suddenly did...

In a way I think it could be even harder for Safechuck to get around statues. Wade can make claims against Michael's companies, because he was employed by them at some point, but Safechuck wasn't. But I think he is used in support of Wade's claim and in case Wade wins money they would probably give him a share from Wade's money.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

respect77 said:
Safechuck too was intreviewed by the police at least back in 1993. He obviously did not make any claims against MJ back then otherwise he would have been listed as one of the victims by the prosecution. Moreover he hang out with Michael and LMP in 1994 during the HIStory trailer. Just because he did not testify it does not mean he is not on the record denying these allegations. Most certainly he is.
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Would his 1993 interviews with the police be readily available, or better yet, safe? I'd hate to think that someone could've meddled with anything from back then in an attempt to cover up Michael's innocence. He also testified before the grand jury in 1994, right?
 
Amaya;4021223 said:
Also, I know people had shot down the AEG connection stuff, but I found this:
https://mjjtruthnow.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/wade-robson32.jpg
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What I find more interesting in that list is that most of his concerts/tours/events date back to around 1999-2001. And especially most of his successful projects.

Recently he did So You Think You Can Dance in 2006-07 where he was a contributing choreographer.

Cirque du Soleil's Criss Angel Show in 2008 which is one of the biggest flops ever Cirque experienced - and Wade's choreography was eventually replaced by someone else's.

The Britney Spears Promo Tour in 2008-09 of which we know he pulled out. There were some speculations about drugs, because Britney required everyone who worked on the tour to have a drug test, but this is just speculation for now. What we know is that Wade got replaced by Jamie King (same guy who did the Michael Jackson Shows Immortal and ONE). It's interesting because Wade made an announcement in advance that he would do Britney's full tour but then he was replaced after the promo tour.


Wade Robson Out, Jamie King In For Britney Spears Circus Tour


I reported back in November that Wade Robson and his wife were directing and choreographing Britney’s upcoming tour as Wade himself stated in a video, but plans have changed. Wade was actually only hired to direct Britney’s Circus promotional tour which had ended in Japan.

Jamie King, who also directed Madonna’s Sticky and Sweet Tour which by the way raked in A LOT of money is now replacing Wade and his wife as Britney Spears Circus’ Tour Director while Simon Ellis is the Musical Director for the tour.

This is some sort of a reunion between Britney and Jamie as well. Britney has worked with Jamie in her "Oops, I Did It Again World Tour" in 2000. I have Jamie’s hip hop exercise "Rock Your Body" DVD. If you are not a natural dancer then it’s better you stick to CRUNCH videos because Jamie King’s steps are so hard to follow even for a dancer like me. Having said that, Britney Spears Circus Tour is definitely going to rock.
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Read more: http://www.crushable.com/2008/12/26...for-britney-spears-circus-tour/#ixzz34s1WgipT

And then Demi Lovato in 2011.

It seems that Wade's career declined and got stuck. (In contrast with what he claims in his lawsuit which is that he was on his way to become an international superstar.) Back in his hey day, in the early 2000s, he was the go-to choreographer. He did all N'Sync Tours - and N'Sync were one of the biggest acts at the time. Recently he was choreographing much less prominent acts like Demi Lovato. Or he flopped or pulled out from projects for unknown reasons. We also know that during this time he was chasing his dream to be a film director. An ambition that is apparently strongly connected with Michael in his mind - as Michael told him that he would become a bigger director than Spielberg. But those plans never materialized. The film he and his wife announced that they were working on a couple of years ago never materialized. And then apparently he had his first nervous breakdown when he was about to direct Step Up 4. Of course, now he tried to blame it all on Michael, but I think he was simply not up to the task and he has mental issues and being the entitled brat he is his way of trying to "win this" still is to put the blame for his own failures on MJ somehow and to make him finance his failed life and career.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Amaya said:
Would his 1993 interviews with the police be readily available, or better yet, safe? I'd hate to think that someone could've meddled with anything from back then in an attempt to cover up Michael's innocence. He also testified before the grand jury in 1994, right?
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Of course, official papers of an investigation should be available. You cannot just burn or modify official documents at will. If they aren't then that would actually be an argument for Michael's side to not to let them get around statues of limitations with this case. One of the reasons why statues of limitations are in place because over time witnesses die, evidence can disappear, memories become more unreliable etc. So if investigation documents from 1993 disappeared then that's actually a good reason to uphold statues of limitations. And if someone meddles with them and they get caught then it's just very damaging for the prosecution from 1993. And they cannot claim that Safechuck told them in 1993 that he was molested. There are photos of Michael haning out with Safechuck in 1994, so obviously he did not tell them any such thing. Nor did the prosecution claim back then that he was molested. They were all about Jordan and Jason - and they tried hard to suggest that Brett was molested despite of Brett denying that. They never said anything about Safechuck.

I don't know about the Grand Jury.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

respect77 said:
Safechuck too was intreviewed by the police at least back in 1993. He obviously did not make any claims against MJ back then otherwise he would have been listed as one of the victims by the prosecution. Moreover he hang out with Michael and LMP in 1994 during the HIStory trailer. Just because he did not testify it does not mean he is not on the record denying these allegations. Most certainly he is.

Also, in 2005 he was a 27 years old adult man. So he too will have it hard to explain why he would make these claims now, amongs monetary demands and when the accused cannot defend himself, when he had his chance back in 2005 as a 27 adult man at a criminal trial where he could have helped another boy and he could have stopped an alleged molester. But of course testifying at a criminal trial for someone else does not pay money... To get around statues of limitations he will also have to make claims similar to Wade's about only recently realizing he was abused. Both being represented by the same lawyer this could sound suspicious and a bit too convenient to a jury. The tale will probably be that seeing Wade on TV talking about his alleged abuse triggered the memories in him. But again it will be hard to explain why two rounds of very public allegations in 1993 and 2005 did not trigger anything in him, but seeing Wade on TV talking about a lawsuit suddenly did...

In a way I think it could be even harder for Safechuck to get around statues. Wade can make claims against Michael's companies, because he was employed by them at some point, but Safechuck wasn't. But I think he is used in support of Wade's claim and in case Wade wins money they would probably give him a share from Wade's money.
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I'm talking about us fans tho, we know very few details about Jimmy, and even less on what exactly he said to the police/lawyers/grand jury, of course he said nothing happened, but we don't have quote's or anything. The estate lawyers will know all about Jimmy, but for us to defend MJ against haters, we don't have a whole lot to go on. His lawyers have had plenty of time to fact check the story to make sure it fits actual events, such as the dates and locations he was with MJ. But then again, Wade had 4 years and his story is all over the place and full of holes, I cross my fingers that Safechuck's is the same.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Two stooges aren't better than one, especially when the first one wasn't credible to begin with.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Another Interesting Thing:
I recently rewatched Wade's appereance on the Today Show, and i noticed one thing on his answer:

Because i lived in silence and denial for 22 Years, and i can't spend another moment in that,
I have to speak MY TRUTH, i have to speak the whole truth.
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So it is HIS truth? That means it's the truth for him.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

But what was he being quiet about? ACcording to him he did not know he was abused until 2012. So how could he be quiet for 22 years about something he said he just found out about in 2012?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

JEMFTV said:
Another Interesting Thing:
I recently rewatched Wade's appereance on the Today Show, and i noticed one thing on his answer:



So it is HIS truth? That means it's the truth for him.
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I thought this was strange wording too, usually people say the truth, I don't recall ever hearing a person say "my" truth before. It can't really be used as evidence of anything but it's at least interesting.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Justthefacts said:
But what was he being quiet about? ACcording to him he did not know he was abused until 2012. So how could he be quiet for 22 years about something he said he just found out about in 2012?
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Not only that. He says he does it because he has to speak the truth. But when they initially filed his complaint they asked the Judge to seal it with this reasoning:

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So where was the need to speak his truth when they tried to file his complaint under seal citing the privacy interests of the accused? Conveniently the need to speak "his truth" only arose after the media got wind of the case. Formerly they wanted to keep the case hush and "after 22 years of silence" he still wanted to keep it silent. He just wanted a quiet, secret pay-off, nothing else.

Actually, to speak his truth he would not have to sue. He would not have to try to get around statues of limitations with crazy claims such as not knowing about the administration of the Estate and only recently realizing he was abused. It would have been enough to write an open letter to a couple of newspapers, like Woody Allan's daughter did. Not judging whether she tells the truth or not about that case - money does not seem to be a motive in that family, but there could be other motives to accuse Woody, just pointing out if it's not about money but just to get "your truth" out there, a lawsuit is not even needed at all. But Wade was just the opposite. He tried to keep his lawsuit under seal. In other words to him the focus was on getting money, not speaking out about anything.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

MJresearcher said:
I thought this was strange wording too, usually people say the truth, I don't recall ever hearing a person say "my" truth before. It can't really be used as evidence of anything but it's at least interesting.
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I think this whole "my truth" thing is the language of the kind of self-help / new age books and courses Wade seems to get his ideas from. His whole language and what he says is very calculated, very "text book".
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

respect77 said:
I think this whole "my truth" thing is the language of the kind of self-help / new age books and courses Wade seems to get his ideas from. His whole language and what he says is very calculated, very "text book".
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Not 'text-book' so much as it is the clear language of someone who knowingly is not dealing with the truth. Most people feel uncomfortable being deceitful (which is why some people's vocal pitch is raised when they are lying), not only on a moral level but on a simple dont-want-to-get-caught level, so they will (whether knowingly or not) look for ways to technically not be deceitful, such as using the subjective "my" as opposed to the objective "the."

After all, there is truly no such thing as one person's truth. There is only the truth.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Harry Osborn said:
After all, there is truly no such thing as one person's truth. There is only the truth.
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Absulotely. That is why a lot of this new age, self-help BS is crazy to me. Not saying that everything there is BS and some things cannot really be helpful to people who need help. But at times it's like people are encouraged to create their own alternative "realities", instead of sticking to the objective truth. Like when someone says:

But over time, I've come to feel that the truth is irrelevant. We call it finding meaning, but we might better call it forging meaning.
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http://www.ted.com/talks/andrew_sol...ts_in_our_lives_make_us_who_we_are/transcript


This was linked in from a website Wade liked and recommended on his FB first then quickly deleted. (It was posted in this comment a couple of pages ago: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...tate/page434?p=4019544&viewfull=1#post4019544 )

Apparently Wade is knee deep in this kind of stuff. For the author of the article I get it what "forging meaning and building identity" could mean, in the context of his story. But I wonder what it means in Wade's case? It's like he wants to create this new persona of being an "abuse victim". It's like he chose this to be his new career. He's building and forging a "new identity" to himself. And apparently "the truth is irrelevant" in that...
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

That is a prime example of a person who don't know shit trying to act like he knows everything
 
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