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People who think Michael's guilty but still buy his music

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barbee0715 said:
I am NOT lying.
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I beilieve you.

barbee0715 said:
I already said previously that had he been convicted, I still would support him and listen to his music-because I would not believe for one second that he was guilty.
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I think most fans would use this excuse, that they wouldnt accept even if he was to be found guilty. Even if the evidence was pointing to him being guilty.


barbee0715 said:
So, obviously people can hate the act, but separate it from the game. Personally, I think they will continue to watch only because certain people will not be playing. It would be interesting to see how many people actually stop watching or keep watching if these certain people continue to play.
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exacly. And i dont think anytings wrong with doing that.

I have been a fan of Michael since i was a child. If i beilieved that he was a pedophile, i couldnt just stop listneing to his music that easily.
true, i wouldnt adore him like i do know, but i would continue listineng to the music. If anyone of my friends would find that to be wrong, i tell them to **** off.

What bothers me is that so many in this thread is lieng, whether they know it or not. I dont beilive for one second that they would stop listnening to michaels music if he was found guilty and they beilieved that he was guilty.
 
:coffee: It's evident that a couple of people could use a chill pill in this thread. No, HakaVelli, I don't agree with you and you probably don't agree with me, but THAT'S OK.
 
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There wasn't a single doubt in my mind Michael was wrongfully accused of child molestation knowing there were there were extortion attempts to get money from him. Knowing both parents Chandler and Arvizo went to see the same civil lawyer to consult him how much money they could get instead of going to the police first. The Arvizo family having a previous history of scamming celebs to get money, Janet Arvizo claiming rape against JC Penny's guards to get money from the story. It was crystal clear they accused Michael for money and the fact of the FBI investigation over a decade finding no evidence of such disgusting allegations, to be aware of those things even if he had been convicted, I wouldn't have stopped supporting him because even to this day there isn't a single convincing proof stating he was that kind of criminal. But if there were such proves, solid ones, I would have stopped loving him and being his fan a long time ago.
 
Snow White luvs Peter Pan said:
There wasn't a single doubt in my mind Michael was wrongfully accused of child molestation knowing there were there were extortion attempts to get money from him. Knowing both parents Chandler and Arvizo went to see the same civil lawyer to consult him how much money they could get instead of going to the police first. The Arvizo family having a previous history of scamming celebs to get money, Janet Arvizo claiming rape against JC Penny's guards to get money from the story. It was crystal clear they accused Michael for money and the fact of the FBI investigation over a decade finding no evidence of such disgusting allegations, to be aware of those things even if he had been convicted, I wouldn't have stopped supporting him because even to this day there isn't a single convincing proof stating he was that kind of criminal. But if there were such proves, solid ones, I would have stopped loving him and being his fan a long time ago.
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I absolutely feel the same way and I 100% agree. Hell,I'm even planning on getting three Michael tattoos and if I knew that he were truly guilty,then I would stop immediately and delete everything of his that I own and whatnot.
 
i think the reasons threads like this CONSTANTLY go south is because folks don't know how to express an opinion without name calling, or projecting their opinion on others.

calling everyone who disagrees 'liars' will obviously give you backlash, no matter what the topic. And i don't think the people who responded to that were overreacting.
 
HakaVelli said:
I beilieve you.



I think most fans would use this excuse, that they wouldnt accept even if he was to be found guilty. Even if the evidence was pointing to him being guilty.
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So you think every verdict in the US justice system is correct and right?

I never based my opinion on MJ's guilt or innocence simply on the verdict as I'm well aware that verdicts can be wrong. Instead I looked into the case myself and also into the Chandler case (which was never in court, so we do not even have a verdict there) and made my conclusions based on evidence. I did that exactly because I'm not someone who is going to support a child molester so it was important to me to know the truth. And I'm sure it is for a lot of fans, so for you to accuse others of "lieng" and dishonesty just because they do not share your views is just very childish.
 
Attention! This thread has been cleaned. Please stop bickering and attacking each other. If you can't have a civil conversation, don't have any conversation. Let's not have this thread turn into a fiasco that we have no choice but to close. Thank you!
 
respect77 said:
So you think every verdict in the US justice system is correct and right?

I never based my opinion on MJ's guilt or innocence simply on the verdict as I'm well aware that verdicts can be wrong. Instead I looked into the case myself and also into the Chandler case (which was never in court, so we do not even have a verdict there) and made my conclusions based on evidence. I did that exactly because I'm not someone who is going to support a child molester so it was important to me to know the truth. And I'm sure it is for a lot of fans, so for you to accuse others of "lieng" and dishonesty just because they do not share your views is just very childish.
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I think america is a racist, corrupt and an evil nation, so i dont think very highly of the system there.
I dont know why you go on and on about evidence, as i have never said Mj was guilty. I dont think he was.
What i am saying is that its easy to say how one would react if he was found guilty, and in this case everyone here is saying that they would stop listning to his music if they where convinced that he was guilty. I dont think its that easy, and in fact i dont think most of those people could stop listning to music they have loved for years.
Heck, there are already musicians that could be described as pedophiles, who people still continue listing to.
Elvis presley
R kelly
David Bowie
Chuck Berry
Jerry Lee Lewis

And probably more.



What makes you think Mj fans are different?
 
Would it make one's art\work less genius or brilliant? No.
Would I like to hear this person art\watch\use it & then pay for it? No.

I'm having a hard time even "forgiving" Chris Brown for the way he smashed Rihanna's face in 2008, yes even though she forgave him. I didn't hate neither of them before, in fact I kinda liked both of them equally - Maybe I liked CB even better. I must say now I am kind of repelled by his image... which reflects on his music too. It's not that I don't like the songs (and I apperciate "Better on The Other Side" and "Nobody's Business") I just have mixed feelings when I hear his voice and it makes it less enjoyable. Now being violent is bad and beating women is bad but not half as bad child molestation. So... I can imagine it would have an affect.
 
HakaVelli said:
And stopped listning to his music?
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Yes because I'd feel fooled and betrayed I've spent 24 years of my 28 supporting him, buying his records and defending him against anyone who dared to speak bullshit against him. Fortunately, he wasn an ethical, caring and wonderful human being. He had flaws like any other man or woman but being a criminal wasn't one of them and as I stated before, there isn't a single convincing evidence to this day proving otherwise. Michael was innocent and will always be, I will adore him 'till the day I leave this world.

Was David Bowie seriously accused of having improper acts with minors? Are there solid evidences those claims are true? That's new to me! :shock:
 
I know nothing of David Bowie being a pedophile. Please can somebody tell me if this is correct. I believe Jiimmy Page of Led Zeppelin had an underage girlfriend. I personally would struggle to listen to Michaels music if it was proven and would certainly not purchase any further products. The problem with music is that it becomes entangled with your life. A song that reminds you of an old friend or a first love or the birth of a child takes on a life of its own away from the artist or their vision for the song. To stop listening to a song because of the behaviour of the writer or singer is not always that easy. However in the case of Michael I believe him to be 100% innocent so it will never be an issue.
 
I really don't know what I should do ...it's a tough question ..I can't imagine a life without Michael anymore :(
 
Treasure said:
I really don't know what I should do ...it's a tough question ..I can't imagine a life without Michael anymore :(
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Finally a reasonable person, that can admit that it is a tough situation, instead of all this idiot thats 100% sure of what they would do in a situation
they havent been in.
The truth is that entertainment buisnness is full of pedophiles and people with questionable morals, yet they are celebrated everyday.
But no, you guys are different the the rest of us. Your 100% sure that you would stop listening to his music if you where convinced that he was guilty.

Again, you are all liers!
 
^Why do you keep on talking for all of us and calling us something we're not? We're not lying, you're the liar here. I could do that with Elvis Presley and you haven't answered your claims about David Bowie.

Knowing myself how extremist I am, if there was (which there isn't and there will never be) convincing evidence Michael harmed children in any way, besides feeling fooled, so betrayed, I'd be so heartbroken that I'd end up hating him and feeling and utter disgust. However, since we know Michael is innocent, that situation I mentioned earlier will never occur.
 
So people who are 100% sure of something are all liars according to you. Are you 100% sure of that? Why is it so strange that people may know their own mind? You seem to judge everybody else by your own standards. I was a fan of Gary Glitter in the seventies and never listened to him again after he was proved to be a pedophile. Neither do I want to hear or see Stuart Hall or Rolf Harris again. It seems a very simple choice to me. I can understand why some songs are more important to them because of what the mean to the listener but if someone says the won't listen again then why can't you accept that?
 
HakaVelli said:
I think america is a racist, corrupt and an evil nation, so i dont think very highly of the system there.
I dont know why you go on and on about evidence, as i have never said Mj was guilty. I dont think he was.
What i am saying is that its easy to say how one would react if he was found guilty, and in this case everyone here is saying that they would stop listning to his music if they where convinced that he was guilty. I dont think its that easy, and in fact i dont think most of those people could stop listning to music they have loved for years.
Heck, there are already musicians that could be described as pedophiles, who people still continue listing to.
Elvis presley
R kelly
David Bowie
Chuck Berry
Jerry Lee Lewis

And probably more.



What makes you think Mj fans are different?
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THose who believe he's guilty - there's no ifs ands or buts about it, there is no question for THEM that he is guilty in their minds. Not "could be." Not "possibly." But is. The question here was that its strange that someone who BELIEVES he's guilty because of what some call 'proof' in their minds would still buy and listen to his music. This is not an 'if someone is described as a pedo, would you still listen to their music' because obviously we all would - this is a Michael Jackson board :p

The question is if you BELIEVED those descriptions were true.

And like i said before. Situation is a big factor. It is significantly worse in MJ's case because unlike the other artists you've listed, MJ made it his life mission to help kids. He made it a staple in his music especially later in life. You cannot listen to a good handful of MJ's songs without hearing children or innocence mentioned at least once. Thats why many are saying that they would stop listening. R Kelly didn't explicitly talk about how great teenagers are in his songs, and make it his mission in life to help teenage girls...etc etc. So believing MJ is a pedo and still listening to some MJ's songs will be very difficult. Lets take a look - you have....

"Childhood", "WBSS", "Heal the World", "Gone Too Soon" (about Ryan White), "Will You Be there" (I include just due to the Free Willy connection), "History" (duet with the kid at the end), "Little Susie," Ghost & 2Bad & Is It Scary (if it reminds you of the short film, that would be kind of odd since the whole thing is about a ghost showing kids his mansion), Say Say Say (again, MJ in the video playing with kids), Black Or White (again, if you think about the video w/ Mac Culkin), Jam (again, video w/ a bunch of kids and Kriss Kross), Smooth Criminal/Speed Demon/Bad (cuz if you think of the Moonwalker movie associated with them and its plot), Earth Song (live performances include a kid stopping the violence), Lost Children, A Place With No Name, and Do You Know Where Your Children Are....

Probably a ton I'm forgetting, PLUS the artwork and promotions that were associated with this music (take a look at the Dangerous album cover for goodness sakes lol). Children are everywhere in his stuff. Hence why its not like the other people you keep mentioning.

I dont think its that easy, and in fact i dont think most of those people could stop listning to music they have loved for years.
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I don't think anyone here said it would be easy.
But I think emotionally it would be too hard for most to continue listening to the music if they loved MJ as a person and not just the artist (which many here do). Many people love a lot of his songs because they love what they represent. Plus MJ did not make much separation between himself as a person and as an artist. He wore his heart on his sleeve when he made music. So I think when people say they would stop listening...there's no reason NOT to believe them lol.

The truth is that entertainment buisnness is full of pedophiles and people with questionable morals, yet they are celebrated everyday.
But no, you guys are different the the rest of us. Your 100% sure that you would stop listening to his music if you where convinced that he was guilty.
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QUestionable morals was not part of thread topic as it could include anything from stealing cookies from the cookie jar to cussing someone out on twitter. WAY different from pedophilia, come on now. Its also different from being ACCUSED of something or RUMORED to have done something which is why you got people defending the difference in this thread. Listening to someone who is accused of something and believing its not true is one thing. Believing the accusations are true is another. The later is what this thread is about.

And yes people are 100% sure they would stop listening because they certainly know their own minds better than YOU do. So why not just accept that and stop throwing around insults?
 
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HakaVelli said:
Finally a reasonable person, that can admit that it is a tough situation, instead of all this idiot thats 100% sure of what they would do in a situation
they havent been in.
The truth is that entertainment buisnness is full of pedophiles and people with questionable morals, yet they are celebrated everyday.
But no, you guys are different the the rest of us. Your 100% sure that you would stop listening to his music if you where convinced that he was guilty.

Again, you are all liers!
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Not really happy with your insultings...let me remind you, that everyone is entitled to her/his own opinion..There is absolutely no need and not even allowed to call anyone here a liar or idiot, so please mind your language ok.
 
J5master said:
But I think emotionally it would be too hard for most to continue listening to the music if they loved MJ as a person and not just the artist (which many here do). Many people love a lot of his songs because they love what they represent. Plus MJ did not make much separation between himself as a person and as an artist. He wore his heart on his sleeve when he made music. So I think when people say they would stop listening...there's no reason NOT to believe them lol.
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Well, seems im speaking for myself in that case.
To me, if MJ was guilty, it wuldnt make me stop listening to his music, and care less if people found that to be wrong.

I feel that good music goes beyond the creator, and there is no reason why i would stop listening to great tracks
just because the creator of that music did something that is considerd criminal. Easy, because i can separate the artist from the music.
Again, im not alone in this, lots of artist that have sex with underaged girls/boys, whom people still continue to listen to.

Having said that, of course, i would probably not admire him as a person, or look up to him anymore.
Thankfully, i dont have to make that decision since he is innocent.
 
HakaVelli said:
Well, seems im speaking for myself in that case.
To me, if MJ was guilty, it wuldnt make me stop listening to his music, and care less if people found that to be wrong.

I feel that good music goes beyond the creator, and there is no reason why i would stop listening to great tracks
just because the creator of that music did something that is considerd criminal. Easy, because i can separate the artist from the music.
Again, im not alone in this, lots of artist that have sex with underaged girls/boys, whom people still continue to listen to.

Having said that, of course, i would probably not admire him as a person, or look up to him anymore.
Thankfully, i dont have to make that decision since he is innocent.
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Okay! Thats good for you then. Just stop calling everyone else who doesn't share this view liars. :p
 
Had there been solid proof of Michael being guilty, there's no way I could listen to his songs in the context of him being a pedophile and not be disgusted. I couldn't listen to those lyrics he wrote and not feel repulsed.

Also I'm sure some haters make their jokes by twisting the meaning of his songs. That could be a reason why they would listen to the songs, which is kind of sick to think about.

I'll always know Michael was innocent in my heart and due to lack of evidence and I'm glad this isn't an alternate reality where he's guilty. His songs have a personal value to me.
 
Can the mods please clean up the thread again? It seems HakaVelli cannot have a conversation without calling names all the time. That just because people do not agree with him. SMH.
 
J5master said:
And like i said before. Situation is a big factor. It is significantly worse in MJ's case because unlike the other artists you've listed, MJ made it his life mission to help kids. He made it a staple in his music especially later in life. You cannot listen to a good handful of MJ's songs without hearing children or innocence mentioned at least once. Thats why many are saying that they would stop listening. R Kelly didn't explicitly talk about how great teenagers are in his songs, and make it his mission in life to help teenage girls...etc etc. So believing MJ is a pedo and still listening to some MJ's songs will be very difficult. Lets take a look - you have....

"Childhood", "WBSS", "Heal the World", "Gone Too Soon" (about Ryan White), "Will You Be there" (I include just due to the Free Willy connection), "History" (duet with the kid at the end), "Little Susie," Ghost & 2Bad & Is It Scary (if it reminds you of the short film, that would be kind of odd since the whole thing is about a ghost showing kids his mansion), Say Say Say (again, MJ in the video playing with kids), Black Or White (again, if you think about the video w/ Mac Culkin), Jam (again, video w/ a bunch of kids and Kriss Kross), Smooth Criminal/Speed Demon/Bad (cuz if you think of the Moonwalker movie associated with them and its plot), Earth Song (live performances include a kid stopping the violence), Lost Children, A Place With No Name, and Do You Know Where Your Children Are....

Probably a ton I'm forgetting, PLUS the artwork and promotions that were associated with this music (take a look at the Dangerous album cover for goodness sakes lol). Children are everywhere in his stuff. Hence why its not like the other people you keep mentioning.
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I find it interesting that HakaVilli never addressed this point...
 
respect77 said:
Can the mods please clean up the thread again? It seems HakaVelli cannot have a conversation without calling names all the time. That just because people do not agree with him. SMH.
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I already made a comment about that and haven't seen anything bad posted after that, so please let us all stay to the subject now and move on.
thank you.
 
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