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The problems with Invincible

analogue said:
Leave Me Alone isn't really a tabloid songs. The video turned it into that, but the song itself isn't
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Not really, but MJ said in Moonwalk that the message behind the song was for everyone to leave him alone, so it kind of stems from that.

Kinda in the same way you hear Ben and think its just a normal friendship.

Then you find out he's a rat of all things.
 
I feel that Privacy is poorly written and is the lowest moment of Invincible. Not much draw to it production-wise, down-right laughable lyrics ("Stop maliciously attacking my integrity"), boring melody line... very little draw to it.

Shout should have taken its place. That song is excellent.
 
analogue;4134799 said:
Leave Me Alone isn't really a tabloid songs. The video turned it into that, but the song itself isn't
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In fact, the song ‘Leave Me Alone’ can be interpreted in more than one ways:

“I’m sending a simple message here: ’Leave me alone’. The song is about a relationship between a guy and a girl. But what I’m really saying to people who are bothering me is: ‘Leave me alone’.” (Moonwalk, Michael Jackson)

Taking, also, into account the time of the song’s release, its media/press metaphors are quite obvious. So, it can be easily interpreted also as a tabloid song.
 
Years ago, I re-arranged Invincible because I was bored, and cut about 5 songs. And it sounded SO much better!

I know Michael likes long albums, but he should have cut some of the weaker tracks and put in stronger songs (that ended up as B-Sides.)
 
innuendo141;4134794 said:
Yeah, I've just always been a fan that saw the Horror theme and Paparazzi themes to be a given in MJ's work. Never complained about it as long as the song was good. Which in all cases, has turned out true for me.
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I have nothing against that he wrote several songs with the same themes, as long as each song is different. both musically and lyrics. and it's not like he wrote THAT many about the tabloids/paparazzi. it's only 2. 3, if you count Leave Me Alone
I like songs most that has lyrics that has a deeper meaning, than a love song. don't get me wrong, those are great too...but I just like those with more meaningful lyrics more. of course the song has to be good as well
I love those aggressive type of songs with a strong personal message to go with it. when I listen to Privacy, I can feel the frustrations. the vibes this song is giving me, are strong

innuendo141;4134794 said:
If the paparazzi hounding had stopped in 92, then I'd be like "why are you still singing about these photographers from the early 90s" but it was something he faced day to day. He just wrote what he felt and experienced I suppose?
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exactly, when he had something he wanted to tell the world, he wrote a song about it. he wrote what's on his mind and in his heart
maybe it's just me (and it probably is), but to me, the message of a song, and also what it meant to him, is as important as everything else about the song

"when you want to be close to me, listen to my music…the love is stored there and will never die" Michael Jackson
 
analogue said:
The reason why I dislike Privacy so much is because I just find it boring.
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that doesn't change the fact that this was something he was struggling with in his life, every single day
whether we like the song or not, is irrelevant to why he wrote these kind of songs, with messages in them. personally, I think it's amazing he expressed himself this way, through his music, and it's one of the many things I've always admired him for. and the fact that he did this, is certainly not "boring"
 
I think MJ only released two terrible songs in his life.

Don't Walk Away & Privacy

Privacy isn't as bad as DWA, but the chorus is awful and the song goes on way too long. Plus the message is tired and he did it so much better on Tabloid Junkie.

I also take offense at the vocal takes at the start. There's a difference between tabloid interference and a young boy,just saying 'looks it's Michael Jackson'. This smacks of him complaining about his fame.

Plus it also leads us back into the 'strange antics' thread where if you don't want paparazzi attention, don't ask for it. You can't have your cake & eat it.

However, if he really wanted to release a 'hounded by the media' song, then it should have been Xscape, it's a million times better.
 
Michaels Lover said:
that doesn't change the fact that this was something he was struggling with in his life, every single day
whether we like the song or not, is irrelevant to why he wrote these kind of songs, with messages in them. personally, I think it's amazing he expressed himself this way, through his music, and it's one of the many things I've always admired him for. and the fact that he did this, is certainly not "boring"
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I understand why the song was created, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
 
Its funny how we all differ with invincible so much haha!!

for me Privacy was the first song on the album that I thought to myself "The sound effects are a bit much but this theme and rhythm is MJ style all the way".. lol
 
KOPV said:
Its funny how we all differ with invincible so much haha!!

for me Privacy was the first song on the album that I thought to myself "The sound effects are a bit much but this theme and rhythm is MJ style all the way".. lol
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Take the History tour and Invincible out the equation and we all agree everything else was stellar. These are the only two bones of contention in his career (bar MSG2001 shows).
 
Tony R said:
Take the History tour and Invincible out the equation and we all agree everything else was stellar. These are the only two bones of contention in his career (bar MSG2001 shows).
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don't speak for everyone, speak for yourself
 
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KOPV said:
Its funny how we all differ with invincible so much haha!!
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I guess this is his most controversial album, I've never seen this much discussion with any of his other albums
 
Tony R said:
Take the History tour and Invincible out the equation and we all agree everything else was stellar. These are the only two bones of contention in his career (bar MSG2001 shows).
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Brace yourself. The HIStory Tour fans are coming lol
 
People say that if some songs were cut from Invincible, it would be a much better album. And I agree with that, but even then it still wouldn't be as good as his previous albums. The songs on Invincible have no chance going up against songs like Is It Scary, They Don't Care About Us, Who Is It, Give Into Me, Smooth Criminal, Another Part Of Me, Billie Jean, Don't Stop Til You Get Enough etc.
 
analogue said:
People say that if some songs were cut from Invincible, it would be a much better album. And I agree with that, but even then it still wouldn't be as good as his previous albums. The songs on Invincible have no chance going up against songs like Is It Scary, They Don't Care About Us, Who Is It, Give Into Me, Smooth Criminal, Another Part Of Me, Billie Jean, Don't Stop Til You Get Enough etc.
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Exactly, although there is some good stuff on there, nothing comes close to the songs above plus Earth Song, Little Susie, WDAN, Dirty Diana.
 
Tony R said:
Exactly, although there is some good stuff on there, nothing comes close to the songs above plus Earth Song, Little Susie, WDAN, Dirty Diana.
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It's hard to believe that the guy who made those songs is the same guy who made Invincible.
 
in the end of the day none of our opinions are fact.. so we have to be open to what others like or dislike... no matter how crazy they sound to any of us lol..

I'm sure I sound crazy with some of my opinions, but that's fine by me..
 
analogue said:
People say that if some songs were cut from Invincible, it would be a much better album. And I agree with that, but even then it still wouldn't be as good as his previous albums. The songs on Invincible have no chance going up against songs like Is It Scary, They Don't Care About Us, Who Is It, Give Into Me, Smooth Criminal, Another Part Of Me, Billie Jean, Don't Stop Til You Get Enough etc.
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Exactly. I think the songwriting on this album was subpar and the production pretty dreadful. It sounds so... cold and sterile. There's no warmth, richness, or energy there at all.

There are things on Invincible that I enjoy, but to me it does not come close to any of his previous albums. It's the only record where Michael does not really sound like Michael to me - the magic that's on all of his other releases is just missing.
 
To me, invincible is one of his best albums and I love it. very, very rarely do I just listen to music, but when I do, its either invincible or Jackson 5
 
SoCav said:
Exactly. I think the songwriting on this album was subpar and the production pretty dreadful. It sounds so... cold and sterile. There's no warmth, richness, or energy there at all.

There are things on Invincible that I enjoy, but to me it does not come close to any of his previous albums. It's the only record where Michael does not really sound like Michael to me - the magic that's on all of his other releases is just missing.
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This is exactly how Ive always felt about it too. Word for word.
 
It seems odd to rail on Invincible when there truly is a LOT to adore about it.

Whatever Happens remains one of the most aesthetically intriguing tracks he's ever recorded. Speechless is charming and beautifully executed. Unbreakable is relentlessly energetic. Don't Walk Away is absolutely gorgeous and leaps and bounds above almost any other "post-break up" song he's ever recorded. It feels as if Michael handpicked four to six songs, the rest assembled by a team of label executives.

It resembles something the estate would release now - lacking the Michael Jackson presence that makes Bad or Dangerous so accessible. And that idea is only made worse by the fact that it is a record Michael Jackson himself put together.

Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again - the lack of Beautiful Girl is criminal.
 
I agree about Invincible. To this day, that is the album I listen to most, along with Xscape. The problem with Invincible is that it was sabotaged by Mottola and virtually every critic seemed to "critique" Michael instead of the music. I only, this was "set up" because Mottola wanted Invincible to fail. Of course, Mottola had already fed to the media that they had allowed to run up production costs of $30 million and the media ran with this PURPORTED figure. Michael knew what Mottola was doing and did something that he had NEVER done, he PUBLICLY called Mottola out. There is no way in hell that Michael would have done that without a VALID reason. The bottomline is that if Invincible failed and Michael couldn't recoup the supposed $30 million that Mottla claimed that they spent on Michael, then Mottola could leverage Michael's ATV catalogue or Michael could lose the catalogue.

There was virtually NO promotion for Invincible. I had to search for the album because there were no displays and when I asked about the album, the salespersons had a very indignant attitude. I had never seen this happen with ANY Michael Jackson album. BUT, a strange thing happened, even with the very obvious sabotage by Mottola/Sony, R&B radio played the hell out of "Butterflies" and made it a hit. This one song brought R&B fans back in droves. I personally know people who hadn't brought a Michael album in years bought Invincible. Because of that, Invincible outsold most of the releases for that year. The bottomline is that a lot of the public and some fans based their opinions on what "critics"( it makes me nauseated to even call some of these scumbags a critic) wrote about this album. I would bet money that if these same "critics" had given Invincible glowing reviews and that the album had sold twice what it sold, the same people who are dismissing the album would be embracing it. Sadly, some people, fans included, base their opinion and purchases on what "critics" say. FTR, I have never based my decision to purchase an album on what these so-called critics say.
 
somewhereinthedark said:
The problem with Invincible is that it was sabotaged by Mottola and virtually every critic seemed to "critique" Michael instead of the music. I only, this was "set up" because Mottola wanted Invincible to fail.
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Why does every fan have to make the insistence that there is some conspiracy? There isn't. Sony royally screwed up in places, but so did Michael.

Michael knew what Mottola was doing and did something that he had NEVER done, he PUBLICLY called Mottola out. There is no way in hell that Michael would have done that without a VALID reason.
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The only public calling out Michael instigated was calling Mottola a racist in 2002. And he stood alone in that regard -- Rev. Al Sharpton went as far to issue a statement saying that Michael's claims were inaccurate.

There was virtually NO promotion for Invincible. I had to search for the album because there were no displays and when I asked about the album, the salespersons had a very indignant attitude. I had never seen this happen with ANY Michael Jackson album.
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Why would a record label spend millions of dollars promoting the last album an artist releases before switching to someone else? A friend over at another thread directed me to a similar situation where Steven Tyler "commented how he found it refreshing to be screwed over by his record label with the last Aerosmith album at the end of their contract".

I would bet money that if these same "critics" had given Invincible glowing reviews and that the album had sold twice what it sold, the same people who are dismissing the album would be embracing it.
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That's kind of a given. If an album is a commercial and critical success there would be nothing to criticize.

Sadly, some people, fans included, base their opinion and purchases on what "critics" say.
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Critical reception has no say in whether or not fans (at least those I've come across on this board or any others) like Invincible. One of my close friends personally considers Invincible to be one of Michael's best albums and Dangerous to be his worst. People judge Invincible based on how they enjoy the music.
 
Simply put, if all the problems with Invincible were to do with Sony and lack of promotion, then there would not be countless threads on MJ forums debating the quality of it.
 
I would say it is a shame that the album didn't have a short film to represent the idea of the songs
 
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