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The problems with Invincible

I've said it before but to me it's a perfect album...Maybe there would be more appreciation if there were more music videos made + a World Tour for Invincible?

Wasn't Mel Gibson supposed to star in a 20min short film for Unbreakable? That would have been pretty awesome to see. I also think seeing Michael open a concert with a powerful performance of Unbreakable or having an entire stadium singing along for 'Speechless' would have been incredible.
 
Graf;4135463 said:
Wasn't Mel Gibson supposed to star in a 20min short film for Unbreakable? That would have been pretty awesome to see. I also think seeing Michael open a concert with a powerful performance of Unbreakable or having an entire stadium singing along for 'Speechless' would have been incredible.
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Mel Gibson was supposed to appear on ‘Unbreakable’, at least reportedly.

According to various reports, MJ had huge plans for the ‘Unbreakable’ music clip which included several big movie stars & directors (Mel Gibson, Chris Tucker, George Lucas among others).

It is said also that an initial version of the video had already been shot but MJ (being not satisfied with it) rejected it eventually. But, I am not sure if the original video version still exists.

Then, MJ decided to hire a different director (Barnes) giving in this way a totally different vision to his forthcoming music clip. But sadly, a music clip for ‘Unbreakable’ was just another victim of his severe dispute with his record company.
 
Graf said:
I've said it before but to me it's a perfect album...Maybe there would be more appreciation if there were more music videos made + a World Tour for Invincible?

Wasn't Mel Gibson supposed to star in a 20min short film for Unbreakable? That would have been pretty awesome to see.
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Opinions on Invincible wouldn't change with more or less short films or performances. At the end of the day, we're all judging whether or not we like the music - videos and shows don't affect that much.

As per the Unbreakable video: nothing more than a rumor. No one ever substantiated it.

People also rumored that Industrial Light & Magic (a special-effects company) were involved, and apparently sometime way back they went as far to deny they were ever approached.
 
Graf said:
I've said it before but to me it's a perfect album...Maybe there would be more appreciation if there were more music videos made + a World Tour for Invincible?

Wasn't Mel Gibson supposed to star in a 20min short film for Unbreakable? That would have been pretty awesome to see. I also think seeing Michael open a concert with a powerful performance of Unbreakable or having an entire stadium singing along for 'Speechless' would have been incredible.
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I had never heard Mel Gibson mentioned, but saw Michael Madsens name mentioned several times.

With regards to if there were more videos and a Tour? That wouldnt change my opinion of how the album sounds to me. The era would be more appreciated because there would be more to discuss, but the Bad tour didn't make the Bad album any better. It was already THAT good.
 
mj_frenzy;4135547 said:
Mel Gibson was supposed to appear on ‘Unbreakable’, at least reportedly.

According to various reports, MJ had huge plans for the ‘Unbreakable’ music clip which included several big movie stars & directors (Mel Gibson, Chris Tucker, George Lucas among others).

It is said also that an initial version of the video had already been shot but MJ (being not satisfied with it) rejected it eventually. But, I am not sure if the original video version still exists.

Then, MJ decided to hire a different director (Barnes) giving in this way a totally different vision to his forthcoming music clip. But sadly, a music clip for ‘Unbreakable’ was just another victim of his severe dispute with his record company.
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Frank Cascio told in his book that what Michael wanted the video to be:

"Michael even knew exactly how he wanted to open the “Unbreakable” short film. He would be on the roof of a very tall building that was under construction, held over the edge by some thugs, and then they would let him go. He would go hurtling to the ground, seemingly dead, but slowly, his body parts would come together and he would turn into fire—dancing on fire from scaffold to scaffold as his body parts reassembled themselves. Michael envisioned creating a dance for “Unbreakable” that people would remember forever."
 
Galactus123;4135583 said:
Frank Cascio told in his book that what Michael wanted the video to be:

"Michael even knew exactly how he wanted to open the “Unbreakable” short film. He would be on the roof of a very tall building that was under construction, held over the edge by some thugs, and then they would let him go. He would go hurtling to the ground, seemingly dead, but slowly, his body parts would come together and he would turn into fire—dancing on fire from scaffold to scaffold as his body parts reassembled themselves. Michael envisioned creating a dance for “Unbreakable” that people would remember forever."
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that sounds both cool, macabre and comical
 
Galactus123;4135583 said:
Frank Cascio told in his book that what Michael wanted the video to be:

"Michael even knew exactly how he wanted to open the “Unbreakable” short film. He would be on the roof of a very tall building that was under construction, held over the edge by some thugs, and then they would let him go. He would go hurtling to the ground, seemingly dead, but slowly, his body parts would come together and he would turn into fire—dancing on fire from scaffold to scaffold as his body parts reassembled themselves. Michael envisioned creating a dance for “Unbreakable” that people would remember forever."
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If true, that actually sounds really interesting... O_O

If there is a Unbreakable short film I sure would love to see it someday. :timer:
 
Graf said:
If true, that actually sounds really interesting... O_O

If there is a Unbreakable short film I sure would love to see it someday. :timer:
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There definitely is not unfortunately.
 
Galactus123 said:
Why? I don't think he has any reason to lie. Also he is not Eddie Cascio.
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The entire book gives off the air of suspiciousness.

Also he does directly reference the tracks in the book and insist that he knows for a fact they are real.
 
Galactus123;4135583 said:
Frank Cascio told in his book that what Michael wanted the video to be:

"Michael even knew exactly how he wanted to open the “Unbreakable” short film. He would be on the roof of a very tall building that was under construction, held over the edge by some thugs, and then they would let him go. He would go hurtling to the ground, seemingly dead, but slowly, his body parts would come together and he would turn into fire—dancing on fire from scaffold to scaffold as his body parts reassembled themselves. Michael envisioned creating a dance for “Unbreakable” that people would remember forever."
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I have not read his book.

Thanks a lot for the additional info!
 
Damn, Sony ****ed it really up for Invincible and Michael. This album would have really good short films if Sony wasn't in a feud with MJ... This album is really underrated. Not only by the general media, but by us fans too.
 
Doggone said:
Damn, Sony ****ed it really up for Invincible and Michael. This album would have really good short films if Sony wasn't in a feud with MJ... This album is really underrated. Not only by the general media, but by us fans too.
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Well there's 2 ways people are going with this argument

a/ The problems with Invincible not doing as well as they think it should have
b/ The problems with Invincible musically ie. each's own opinion

A lot of people put blame on Sony and lack of promotion etc etc (I dont agree with this, the album sold as much as it sold) but lack of promotion doesnt change how a lot of people on here feel that it was the music that was the issue (myself included).

We all have different tastes. Loads of people here list Invincible as their favourite album, loads, but to say that the issues all stem from whatever Sony did or didnt do just doesn't work. As someone else pointed out, this is the most debated album by a longshot, and for good reason.

No matter how many times we complain "oh another Invincible thread" we always keep coming back! It's a vicious circle (but a fun one)
 
Both Michael and Sony played a large roll in "what happened' to invincible.. we can't just blame the label but it def. was not only Michael either.. they were two forces that did not see eye to eye in a sensitive and it F'd a lot up... It's like if two parents are fighting - the child (album) will not grow to its fullest potential.
 
^^ Precisely. I'm confused as to why the blame is put entirely on Sony.

Michael refused to tour for the album. Michael aided in the writing/concept of the You Rock My World video (largely considered to be his worst). Michael told Sony he was leaving the label in March 2000, causing them to pull out of almost all promotional efforts.

He contributed to the album's commercial disappointment as much as they did.
 
But can we blame Sony for the quality of the music? The answer is no.

There's only 1 name on the cover, and it's not like MJ was back in Motown being given songs by Berry being told how to sing.
 
Invincible could have outsold Thriller, and I'd still say it was a disappointment compared to his previous work
 
It is a damn shame that we never got to see that Threatened short film. That could have been amazing
 
analogue said:
Invincible could have outsold Thriller, and I'd still say it was a disappointment compared to his previous work
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Wow,really?I don't think so and one of the reason's I don't think Thriller will ever be beaten,apart from it being a super album is that it was first released on vinyl,people bought it and later it maybe got damaged and re-bought it,fans of MJ and the album later picked it up on cassette too and then came along CD's and those people that had to have it in their collection purchased it again and the same with itunes etc.....it is a product of it's time,those kind of sales and people re-buying are over.....it's all now just stored on a pc or the likes..
 
The Unbreakable video sounds kinda... ridiculous honestly. Sounds like a Bieber video plot.

Threatened was also rumored to be yet another haunted house type video in the vein of Thriller and Ghosts. So pretty much a retread of what he's already done twice before. Pass.

I would've liked to see a video for Whatever Happens and 2000 Watts.
 
innuendo141 said:
But can we blame Sony for the quality of the music? The answer is no.

There's only 1 name on the cover, and it's not like MJ was back in Motown being given songs by Berry being told how to sing.
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The only scenario in which I think you can argue for this is if MJ was unhappy with the label - not just after the release but during the making of it - and purposely decided to hold back his best material. Whether or not they are then to 'blame' (since it would still have been Michael's decision to hold his best stuff back) depends on whether you think he had a legitimate gripe.

I have no idea whether this is the case. There is still a lot to be learned about this era.
 
SoCav said:
The only scenario in which I think you can argue for this is if MJ was unhappy with the label - not just after the release but during the making of it - and purposely decided to hold back his best material. Whether or not they are then to 'blame' (since it would still have been Michael's decision to hold his best stuff back) depends on whether you think he had a legitimate gripe.
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Didn't this happen with Prince at some point? Seems plausible.

In the event that's what happened that was a TERRIBLE choice on Michael's part. Invincible is the only album in his entire catalog that fans have to debate over whether or not it is good.
 
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