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New MJ content (Possibility)

Re: New MJ content?

Maxym said:
I get your point that posthumous releases should be compared with posthumous releases...
But I wasn't comparing Xscape to Thriller... I would have expected it to perform better than a Motown best of anyway...

And I did quick search, there are many posthumous albums, and I don't think that Xscape really seemed stand out in the lists and figures I saw, but I must say it's difficult to follow and get precise numbers and comparisons.


Regardless of commercial success ... I just gave another try at listening to Xscape album tracks (vs so-called demos). They're worst than what I remembered, most feel like they just threw random beats over them, Chicago now has a background duck choir... (well, there was a frog in the background of Heartbreaker, so why not?)
I don't called them "remixes" myself, but they deserve that some people call them "remixes".
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well i get that its not your cup of tea at music but imo timberland kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiilt that SH T with chicago and blue gangasta really took the demos from a 5 to a solid 9 or 8 again IMO
so calling them remixes is disrespectful to say the least,this is timberland were talking about not some eddie cascio come on.....
 
Re: New MJ content?

Maxym said:
I get your point that posthumous releases should be compared with posthumous releases...
But I wasn't comparing Xscape to Thriller... I would have expected it to perform better than a Motown best of anyway...
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Xscape has sold almost 2 million copies worldwide, in 6 years.

The Best Of Michael Jackson hadn't even sold 500.000 copies by 1981 (six years after its release). It started to further grow in sales after the massive success that Michael had with Off The Wall and the other albums that came after.

You can't compare the two albums
 
Re: New MJ content?

Fuzball said:
It's way more than just not to listening to them. As kai and Maxym have already mentioned above, the "remixes" have been marketed as "new" Michael Jackson songs - which definitely isn't the case. Attaching MJs vocals to somebody elses totally different composition ain't a MJ song anymore. (Btw, -I'm not a musicologist, so pardon me if I'm wrong- tracks 2 to 7 on Xscape can't be categorised as remixes neither. IMO, they are just plain mashups of 2 different songs.)
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Maxym said:
The problem is that the remixes are the main album tracks... Michael's demos we already masterpieces and I don't think the main versions should be replaced with "bait tracks for younger people"...
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i see what you mean. i agree. they should of put the demos as the originals not the remixes. i believe they did that for the younger fans to target.

Fuzball said:
As for making Michael "attractive" for younger fans, this is just a bs excuse. I don't think the estate is stupid enough not to realise that we, his fans as well as casual music lovers, were the one who made Michael the biggest entertainer in the world. And we easily outnumber the potential new fans. In the future (perhaps in 20, 30 or 40 years) the figures will surely change, of course.
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i respect your opinion. but everyone should be target by michael. i agree that the hardcore fans should get respect just like the younger and general public fans.

Fuzball said:
Maybe someone's still pissed off cuz that someone's been fired in the past. Idk, can't see any other logical explanation.
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that can explain somethings.... ugh.
 
Re: New MJ content?

dam2040 said:
Xscape was one of Sony's biggest sellers in 2014. The suggestion that it didn't do well is a lie.

Releasing a demo from 1984 as is would be a commercial failure, and everyone knows it. I understand wanting Michael's art as he left it, I agree, I'm glad we got the Xscape deluxe but to suggest that the material would be a commercial success in its original state is a baseless suggestion.
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I completely agree with you here, Michael was a perfectionist.. He wouldn't want unfinished work to be overly saturated, but he definitely knew that his fans wanted more. It doesn't have to be the fact of changing the complete vision of the song, but to do it in a respectful way. My opinion on music is changing all the time as the years go by, but at this moment in time the contemporary version of the title track from 'Xscape' sounds more sonically together than the demo version. Personally I think the theme should continue, as more and more material is unearthed.. The gold that can not be compared for the classic fans, and for the younger generation.. Improve certain aspects based on current trends.
 
Re: New MJ content?

dam2040 said:
Some people will really never be happy. We get the new remixes to expand the horizons and get the eyes on MJ again & we got the originals for the hardcore fans to enjoy. Anything else is just nitpicking.
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exactly.
 
Re: New MJ content?

some people like Xscape some don't. live with it. i had no problem with the album. like dam2040 said all fans do is nitpick. you can't please everyone. if fans have problem with something then fix it themselves. even doing that you still gonna have people who don't like it. greez. i wonder how old is some people in this fandom. some act like they never had manners or was never pleases by anything in their life.

also stop downing the younger fans they the ones who keep michael alive and his legacy going. without them michael would be pretty much forgotten and low on charts. respect younger fans .
 
Re: New MJ content?

if michael was alive i really think he would be trying to help people though covid. maybe release a song like heal the world or earth song. he would be 62. i think he would inside because he would be in the group of the high risks. not trying to sound funny but serious.
 
Re: New MJ content?

who knows in which direction MJ would have went in 2014.
he wanted to work with timbaland and stargate. maybe he would have loved their production? nobody knows.
(MJ also gave "Dangerous" to Teddy Riley, who basically remixed it for the album -> MJ loved it).

For me i liked both albums Michael & Xscape. But Xscape wins for me slightly.

LNFSG -> remix Version wins clearly
Chicago -> remix Version wins
Loving You -> Remix Version is awesome. Demo is sweet aswell.
APWNN -> Demo wins. Remix Version isn't too bad and i listen to it sometimes. (the demo is so strong, that i dont "need" a remix)
STTR -> Demo was very barebone but good. Remix Version could have been so much better. The ending sucks and overall theres no "climax" in that song.
DYKWYCA -> Remix Version was ruined. What was he thinking? 2010 Version is the best so far.
Blue Gangsta -> Remix Version by far better. Cinematic Feel.
Xscape -> tie (but why was the new version so much shorter??!)

overall i dont get the hate.
aslong as we get all the demos, iam happy.
 
I really don’t understand fans who say that all the “remixes” are crap and don’t sound like the original. I think the modern versions of Loving You, Blue Gangsta, Xscape and STTR sound very close to the original versions and the producers on those songs did a very good modernising those songs. Even LNFSG is a great upgrade from the lifeless demo. I agree the modernised versions of Chicago and DYKWYCA are terrible. Even though I prefer the modernised version of APWNN over the boring original version, I agree that the modern version doesn’t capture the essence of the original.

As for people who say that Xscape doesn’t sound like a Michael Jackson album. My question is what is a Michael Jackson album? What is a Michael Jackson sound? Because if we look at Michael’s 6 adult solo albums, they were all albums of their time. Off The Wall is a classic disco album of the late 70s. Early 80s saw decline in disco sound and more focus on pop rock and Michael incorporated that sound in Thriller. Bad had the classic outdated production of the mid-late 80s albums. Dangerous heavily incorporates New Jack Swing, a genre that was popular in the late 80s and early 90s. History features Michael use guest rappers, as hip hop was becoming mainstream around that time. Invincible has the classic early 00s sound. So when people say that Xscape doesn’t sound like a Michael Jackson album, did these same people say the same thing when Dangerous was released in 1991?

The fact is that Michael was an artist who always did music that was popular at that time. If Michael had been alive in 2014, he would be making music with similar sort of sound and production to the songs on Xscape.

So I think this criticism of Xscape that it doesn’t sound like a Michael Jackson album is a fair criticism at all.
 
Re: New MJ content?

I don't really understand describing how the producers totally replaced MJ's work and then trying to act like that's a positive thing and something that they should be proud of. I also don't appreciate the narrative that is prevalent on this forum in which people try to dismiss legitimate complaints as "nit-picking" or "being entitled". The demos that they provided sounding absolutely awful for no reason is a legitimate complaint, and so is their side-lining of MJ's work for current hot producers who will sound dated in the near future.
 
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Re: New MJ content?

NatureCriminal7896 said:
same. and i wish fans stop saying what michael would of liked. we don't know michael only by the things he said. nothing wrong guessing but greez this fan community.
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Michael was very wise when it came to business, that's common knowledge by now. He knew what would be successful and how to get it there. To sell, something not only needs to be unique but also striking.. One's ear can sometimes be the harshest critic.
 
Re: New MJ content?

look as far as michael wishes go we werent suppose to get ANYTHING after he died,no new music would come out if it was up to him so im just saying thank you to the estate for their clear efforts to make me as a fan happy and also meet their own interests
 
Re: New MJ content?

NatureCriminal7896 said:
also stop downing the younger fans they the ones who keep michael alive and his legacy going. without them michael would be pretty much forgotten and low on charts. respect younger fans .
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I'm not downing young people, they've been used by others as THE argument to explain why demos should be remixed...
I'm not actually sure if there should be such a distinction a the "young listeners" and the "old listeners?"... this sounds like marketing construct ... it must be easier to sell quantities if you first group the target...
I'm quite sure that they would have a variety of different tastes and more ability to choose quality music if today's music industry was serving the soup they're serving.

I think this video is partly relevant here ... it's not about being young, it's about being served junk-type-music: Why is Modern Music so Awful?



In addition, I would be curious to know if young actually discover Michael because of remixes or because they hear the classic songs from Thrilled, Bad etc. or yet because they see videos on YouTube...
 
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Re: New MJ content?

some younger fans like remixes. i guess it's depends on the person taste. most kids i see today remixes songs into the sound today. if michael was alive he would pick one of top artists today. whatever we would like it or not. nothing was new to michael just times has changed. so there's no problem with this discussion.
 
Re: New MJ content?

There are certain aspects to Xscape that I think we need to consider:

1) The remixes were in the standard edition because only these songs could be marketed as singles which will push non fans to buy the album. LNFSG was a huge success given it was a posthumous release. To put things in context, Madonna's last top 10 hit was in 2012 and MJ got one in 2014!

2) Sales of Xscape is around 2 million which is lower than Michael's standards mainly because of the change in the music industry. The best selling album of 2016 sold just 3.3 million! Streaming has caused a dramatic decline in pure album sales

3) The song lengths in Xscape are cut short from the originals to keep pace with the streaming era. Song lengths are now just 3-3 1/2 minutes to increase replay value. It was purely a business decision based on industry standards. Now should they have done that is up for debate.

4) The young people argument could be a valid one. There were many kids including me who became MJ's fans when we discovered his music in 2009. For many of us, hearing Michael with a modern sound is a dream while also getting to enjoy his originals.

5) Xscape also seems to have aged well. Sure, 1-2 songs seem bad, but the better tracks are modern yet not gimmicky. Michael's vocals are front and centre.

I feel the Xscape formula was good. But they could additionally release remastering of the originals, like a recreation of the originals with a little bit of touch up so that the originals don't feel like demos.
 
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Re: New MJ content?

kv101 said:
There are certain aspects to Xscape that I think we need to consider:

1) The remixes were in the standard edition because only these songs could be marketed as singles which will push non fans to buy the album. LNFSG was a huge success given it was a posthumous release. To put things in context, Madonna's last top 10 hit was in 2012 and MJ got one in 2014!

2) Sales of Xscape is around 2 million which is lower than Michael's standards mainly because of the change in the music industry. The best selling album of 2013 sold just 3.3 million! Streaming has caused a dramatic decline in pure album sales

3) The song lengths in Xscape are cut short from the originals to keep pace with the streaming era. Song lengths are now just 3-3 1/2 minutes to increase replay value. It was purely a business decision based on industry standards. Now should they have done that is up for debate.

4) The young people argument could be a valid one. There were many kids including me who became MJ's fans when we discovered his music in 2009. For many of us, hearing Michael with a modern sound is a dream while also getting to enjoy his originals.

5) Xscape also seems to have aged well. Sure, 1-2 songs seem bad, but the better tracks are modern yet not gimmicky. Michael's vocals are front and centre.

I feel the Xscape formula was good. But they could additionally release remastering of the originals, like a recreation of the originals with a little bit of touch up so that the originals don't feel like demos.
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I feel like 'Loving You' was quite a close 'refresh', out of all the tracks compared to the demo.
 
Re: New MJ content?

I like some of the remixes as remixes. Loving You is an example. It's the whole acting like it's MJ's music and downplaying him as an artist thing that I have a problem with.
 
Re: New MJ content?

i really doubt michael would ever get high charts again. he's gone and an older artist. 2m is good for a deceased artist.
 
Re: New MJ content?

kv101 said:
5) Xscape also seems to have aged well. Sure, 1-2 songs seem bad, but the better tracks are modern yet not gimmicky. Michael's vocals are front and centre.
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Just out of curiosity, did anything from Michael's whole career actually age bad? (exclude the Steeltown recordings and some 1970s live performances)


kv101 said:
I feel the Xscape formula was good. But they could additionally release remastering of the originals, like a recreation of the originals with a little bit of touch up so that the originals don't feel like demos.
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That would already be a good thing if we have had a guarantee to have original demos along with "modern (re)mixes". I don't truly mind what they'd put on singles and in videos.
 
Re: New MJ content?

i love loving you. both the demo and remix. beautiful song. it does sound like something michael would of made. probably not exactly but close. ^_^
 
Re: New MJ content?

rolerprod said:
look as far as michael wishes go we werent suppose to get ANYTHING after he died,no new music would come out if it was up to him so im just saying thank you to the estate for their clear efforts to make me as a fan happy and also meet their own interests
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i feel the estate can do better. but yes i agree. i'm kind of happy what we have now. i hope we get more in the future. you're not only fan who feel this way.
 
Re: New MJ content?

NatureCriminal7896 said:
the album has to be "out of this world" to make that happen again.
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if they want chart success all they need to do is get big features honestly but they would probably top that ,like i said before it seems to me like they learn their lessons from the first 2 albums and got better "album roll out" each time
 
Re: New MJ content?

Maxym said:
Just out of curiosity, did anything from Michael's whole career actually age bad? (exclude the Steeltown recordings and some 1970s live performances).
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nothing honestly. michael music is timeless. i will say michael early albums don't get much love then his adult solo albums. i think their outdated for some people mostly the younger fans.
 
kv101;4317729 said:
There are certain aspects to Xscape that I think we need to consider:

1) The remixes were in the standard edition because only these songs could be marketed as singles which will push non fans to buy the album. LNFSG was a huge success given it was a posthumous release. To put things in context, Madonna's last top 10 hit was in 2012 and MJ got one in 2014!
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MJ’s last top 10 hit was in 2018 with Don’t Matter To Me. But I agree with what you are saying.

2) Sales of Xscape is around 2 million which is lower than Michael's standards mainly because of the change in the music industry. The best selling album of 2013 sold just 3.3 million! Streaming has caused a dramatic decline in pure album sales
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Xscape may not have sold as much as Michael’s solo albums, but 2 million for a posthumous album is pretty good, especially when you consider that we are in a streaming era as you said. And lets not forget that a lot of Michael fans didn’t support Xscape because of the Michael album.

I feel the Xscape formula was good. But they could additionally release remastering of the originals, like a recreation of the originals with a little bit of touch up so that the originals don't feel like demos.
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Agreed. The demos on Xscape needed a bit more polishing. They don’t sound as good as the reworked songs.
 
Re: New MJ content?

dam2040 said:
Sorry but what are you saying? It's obviously MJ just it was poorly filtered.
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I meant that it's so poorly filtered that I didn't recognise MJ, and before reaching the end of the sound I expected to hear more than some ambient snippet...
 
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