New Fan and Thoroughly Addicted to Everything About This Man!

[staywild23]

My original passion for Michael, I was all fine with that. Then when it went into crazy phase, this was quite a while ago, I was a bit embarrassed cos although Michael was really cool (well, I mean, he had died by this stage - I mean, even when he was alive he'd moved past the college preppy look of early to mid-80's).

Where was I?

OK, so there was a time when Michael didn't seem so cool to me, I loved him but he had no edge. And all of my guys always had edge. He just didn't. Or not as much as the others did. So for a brief moment I felt a bit weird. Crazy, huh? I got over it pretty quickly but for a while there it was a thing. I can hardly even understand it now, looking back. It sounds mad. I'm like, 'was that me? Nah!' But it was me. For a little while.

OMG I completely understand this. You have no idea. I'm not sure this is what you mean by edge, but it took me years.... I mean years and years and yeeeeaaaaaarrrrrsss of my life (and therapy lol) to find kindness, gentleness, and softness in men attractive. It is something I always craved, but I was really messed up for a long ass time, and I didn't even know it was possible, let alone attractive.

We talk constantly about how just physically attractive Michael is and obviously how much of a beast he is on stage and how overwhelming and sexy he is as a performer. But all those qualities alone are only part of what make me lose my absolute sanity over him. A massive portion is the purity of him. He is just so...authentic. He is so kind and gentle and soft in a really really good way. The juxtaposition of him, his complexity, the fact that he makes me feel safe, the lack of "edge" (how I'm interpreting that at least) is all part of what makes me attracted to him. I love that he just feels like this really good, pure, kind person, while also being this powerhouse. It's everything.

 

[Hiker]

I think about this all the time. There's really no one else to compare this to either, because it happened to such an extreme degree with him. I've been on and off Twitter all day following all the viral hashtags about him and I've seen people repost headlines and stuff of how the media treated him during the trial with the #ApologizetoMichaelJackson and it is so hard to see. I remember all of it, but I wasn't a fan then and didn't process it. Now that I know him though, I just feel so much pain in my stomach and in my chest when I see stuff like this. He has got to be one of the strongest people imaginable to survive all that he survived. This is why I am so emotional today.

Makes you wonder why!! Just to make some money? Is money more important than a human life? What is the point of that apology even if it comes, Michael suffered and left. Since I never saw those headlines, I don't want to see them. Thankfully I am still staying away from Tabloid culture, and that includes social media now. Though I have been emotional (oscillating between ravenous and emotional is perfect description!) since I read Moonwalk couple of weeks back. He was so full of life and dreams, and they were all coming true in Bad/Thriller era, even up to Dangerous, and then it all seem to have spiraled downwards. He was still incredibly brave to have held on for so long as he did. Still makes you think, why such things happen. Why can't people just look at something great and appreciate it instead of trying to pull it down. Even on this fan forum, the whole 'woman' thread made me so mad! Even if everyone is entitled to their opinion!

 

[Hiker]

Sorry I brought the mood down. We were talking about this Marlon person and how @zinniabooklover is now crazy about him, and how I am pretending I don't even know who he is I still have to see him dance though. But I really doubt it will do anything for me, Michael occupies like 150% of my brain these days.

 

[staywild23]

Makes you wonder why!! Just to make some money? Is money more important than a human life? What is the point of that apology even if it comes, Michael suffered and left. Since I never saw those headlines, I don't want to see them. Thankfully I am still staying away from Tabloid culture, and that includes social media now.

This is honestly so wise. Since I'm currently quarantining, I am spending way too much time reading posts on social media and even though he has massive support, the hateful comments really hurt me. I think if you can stay away from social media you should. There's very little to gain if I'm being honest.

Though I have been emotional (oscillating between ravenous and emotional is perfect description!) since I read Moonwalk couple of weeks back. He was so full of life and dreams, and they were all coming true in Bad/Thriller era, even up to Dangerous, and then it all seem to have spiraled downwards.

I can't even touch this without crying. but I agree with it whole-heartedly. He didn't deserve anything that happened to him.

He was still incredibly brave to have held on for so long as he did. Still makes you think, why such things happen. Why can't people just look at something great and appreciate it instead of trying to pull it down. Even on this fan forum, the whole 'woman' thread made me so mad! Even if everyone is entitled to their opinion!

DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED. My rage at some of the threads on here and the often cruel, or dismissive way people talk about him just pisses me off so much. Certain people always seem to take any opportunity they can to tear him down and I don't understand why on a FAN FORUM of all places this is even a thing. The woman thread is so ridiculous. It feels like grasping at straws just to find fault with Michael and for what? I feel this way about so many threads I see, which is why I often don't jump into non-pic threads. I hate arguing. I really dislike it. But I still read a lot of the threads and they sometimes upset me a lot.

 

[filmandmusic]

The ambiguity is strong in this thread

 

[zinniabooklover]

Sorry I brought the mood down.

It's that sort of day. Impossible not to be happy because Michael was vindicated, angry because none of it should ever have happened, frustrated because ... reasons, distressed at the thought of what he went through ... relieved that the right verdict was brought in ...

And so forth and so on.

We were talking about this Marlon person and how @zinniabooklover is now crazy about him,

"Hey, they said I better get a chaperone
Cos I can't stop messing with the danger zone ... "
(lyrics by Cyndi Lauper)

and how I am pretending I don't even know who he is

I still have to see him dance though. But I really doubt it will do anything for me,

No, I really don't think it will.

Michael occupies like 150% of my brain these days.

Makes sense. I can relate.

 

[MacMandy90]

It's that sort of day. Impossible not to be happy because Michael was vindicated, angry because none of it should ever have happened, frustrated because ... reasons, distressed at the thought of what he went through ... relieved that the right verdict was brought in ...

Yeah, I feel all of the waves of emotions today. Yes I'm still elated by the vindication, but it still hurts so deeply with what they put him through...and it was the right verdict indeed that was 100% true all along and to this day.

 

[zinniabooklover]

DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED. My rage at some of the threads on here and the often cruel, or dismissive way people talk about him just pisses me off so much. Certain people always seem to take any opportunity they can to tear him down and I don't understand why on a FAN FORUM of all places this is even a thing. The woman thread is so ridiculous. It feels like grasping at straws just to find fault with Michael and for what? I feel this way about so many threads I see, which is why I often don't jump into non-pic threads. I hate arguing. I really dislike it. But I still read a lot of the threads and they sometimes upset me a lot.

I know it's been said a few times lately but it's so enraging I think it takes a while to get it out of your system. I know I've said it before but I can take people criticising Michael. I have my own criticisms. I prefer not to air them on the board but I do have them. But it's not that. It's the tearing down. Why? Seriously, just why? Statements which are cruel, dismissive or almost gleefully nasty are unhelpful, unpleasant and unnecessary. Just don't do it.

OK, Deep breath. Beautiful thoughts.

 

[MacMandy90]

I know it's been said a few times lately but it's so enraging I think it takes a while to get it out of your system. I know I've said it before but I can take people criticising Michael. I have my own criticisms. I prefer not to air them on the board but I do have them. But it's not that. It's the tearing down. Why? Seriously, just why? Statements which are cruel, dismissive or almost gleefully nasty are unhelpful, unpleasant and unnecessary. Just don't do it.

OK, Deep breath. Beautiful thoughts.

Yes, definitely well put. Agreed.

It's not worth to stoop down to other's levels of that nature, it's best to be calm, and yes deep breaths and nothing but beautiful thoughts.

I find it infuriating how these things get way out of hand, even with little to no reason especially...for real.

 

[zinniabooklover]

 

[zinniabooklover]

"Brave men tell the truth"

Lyric from a song just posted by MM90. Already forgotten name of artist but this lyric, so relevant today.

 

[MacMandy90]

"Brave men tell the truth"

Lyric from a song just posted by MM90. Already forgotten name of artist but this lyric, so relevant today.

Amen!

It's "Remind Me" by Royksopp

Very true indeed.

 

[Hiker]

The ambiguity is strong in this thread

It's that sort of day. Impossible not to be happy because Michael was vindicated, angry because none of it should ever have happened, frustrated because ... reasons, distressed at the thought of what he went through ... relieved that the right verdict was brought in ...

Yeah, it's that kind of month, not just the day .

 

[zinniabooklover]

Sorry I brought the mood down. We were talking about this Marlon person and how @zinniabooklover is now crazy about him, and how I am pretending I don't even know who he is I still have to see him dance though. But I really doubt it will do anything for me, Michael occupies like 150% of my brain these days.

Let's talk about Michael dancing.

Don't know if you saw it, I posted a video clip over on the 'dance moves' thread. It's J5 on the Carol Burnett Show. I can't take credit for this. @filmandmusic suggested a few more J5 songs for me to check out. With J5 and Jacksons, if a song didn't get into the UK charts then I don't know about it. They just weren't the type of groups where I would ever have been interested in buying an album.

Anyway, so these songs were all new to me and it was great checking them out - in fact, one was from J5 live in Mexico which I'm already obsessed with but watching this song as a stand-alone was really cool. The one I posted, though, is from Carol Burnett Show and it's awesome, imo. But it's not just the song, it's the dance routine. It's a blast. You might already have seen it but I highly recommend going over there and checking it out. (I don't mean right now, obvs, I mean when you have the time!).

I haven't got the time stamp in my head but it's in my comment below the vid. Round about 3m 37s Michael does a little side shuffle and then a spin. The side shuffle doesn't last long but it looks amazing. I did so many rewinds, lol.

Also, Michael looks to die for in pale blue.

 

[Hiker]

Anyway, so these songs were all new to me and it was great checking them out - in fact, one was from J5 live in Mexico which I'm already obsessed with but watching this song as a stand-alone was really cool. The one I posted, though, is from Carol Burnett Show and it's awesome, imo. But it's not just the song, it's the dance routine. It's a blast. You might already have seen it but I highly recommend going over there and checking it out. (I don't mean right now, obvs, I mean when you have the time!).

No I have not seen it. I am still in a phase where I can't stand the brothers. They should have been there for him and protected him instead of making life even harder for him. That's my story and I am still going with it fair or unfair. Maybe I will watch this one for the dancing part.

 

[zinniabooklover]

No I have not seen it. I am still in a phase where I can't stand the brothers. They should have been there for him and protected him instead of making life even harder for him. That's my story and I am still going with it fair or unfair. Maybe I will watch this one for the dancing part.

I feel the same. I am shocked to the core that I'm even watching the Victory shows let alone enjoying them. Believe me, I have very little time for the family. I understand family dynamics are difficult, weird, horrible and no-one outside that family can understand what the hell is going on. Even the people inside a family can't always understand what the heck is going on. I also know I have no right to have an opinion on how the Jackson's did or did not support Michael. It's none of my business. And, finally, I don't believe Michael is completely innocent in all of this. There's no way it's a case of, 'oh Michael is always in the right and the nasty family are always in the wrong'. It just doesn't work that way. Michael absolutely will have done or said things within the family that were unhelpful or inflammatory or whatever. We don't know about those things but they will have happened. Which brings us back to family dynamics and how difficult they are.

I remember reading somewhere that Marlon and Michael got on well although I don't know if that was when they were younger or if it was referring to their adult years. I have MASSIVE issues with Jermaine and Randy. Massive. I just had an exchange with someone on another thread to do with the existence of film footage of Triumph. I was pulled up for not knowing that Jermaine wasn't involved with Triumph. I mentioned that I can't keep up with when Jermaine was or was not in the Jacksons. What I didn't say was, I don't give a flying whatever whether Jermaine was or was not in the group at any particular time. I have zero interest in him - although Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming is a damn good song so that's a poke in the eye for me, lol.

Going back to the Carol Burnett thing. I'm not trying to persuade you to watch it. That's your decision. But when I watch J5 and Jacksons I only have eyes for Michael. That's another reason why this Marlon thing was so weird. I mean, kudos to the guy that he was able to take my attention away from Michael even for a few seconds. That's some achievement! But usually I'm just watching Michael and the brothers just sort of fade to the side of my awareness.

Watching Michael during the J5 and Jacksons days has its own difficulties. I do struggle hugely with this and some days I can't watch or listen to that stuff. But on the days when I can watch Michael in that phase of his life, there is a lot of joy. He's so beautiful and so ... just so Michael. I can be so uplifted and soothed by him as a teenager. It's just a different sort of joy to when I watch him as an adult.

 

[staywild23]

I have MASSIVE issues with Jermaine and Randy. Massive.

Now I am curious lol. I mean, I know some of the reasons why, but when it comes to the brothers there is more that I don't know.

I just had an exchange with someone on another thread to do with the existence of film footage of Triumph. I was pulled up for not knowing that Jermaine wasn't involved with Triumph. I mentioned that I can't keep up with when Jermaine was or was not in the Jacksons. What I didn't say was, I don't give a flying whatever whether Jermaine was or was not in the group at any particular time. I have zero interest in him - although Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming is a damn good song so that's a poke in the eye for me, lol.

Isn't there a part of the Victory tour which is all Jermaine's? Like, Michael steps back and we hear some of Jermaine's songs for a few minutes? I'm pretty sure that was my cooling off period. I think I might have taken the dog out during that lol. But I have to thank Jermaine, because that break is the only reason I'm still alive to write about it to this day. Michael would have destroyed me otherwise haha.

Watching Michael during the J5 and Jacksons days has its own difficulties. I do struggle hugely with this and some days I can't watch or listen to that stuff. But on the days when I can watch Michael in that phase of his life, there is a lot of joy. He's so beautiful and so ... just so Michael. I can be so uplifted and soothed by him as a teenager. It's just a different sort of joy to when I watch him as an adult.

I absolutely go to J5 and Jacksons stuff when I need to be uplifted! But I also some days can't handle it. He's so joyful and beautiful and pure that sometimes I can't emotionally withstand it knowing the hurt he was feeling then and would later feel. But when i'm not in that headspace, I can just marvel at him forever. He was so magnetic.

 

[zinniabooklover]

Now I am curious lol. I mean, I know some of the reasons why, but when it comes to the brothers there is more that I don't know.

Ach, really don't wanna go there. Don't wanna get into it. And I won't know anything that's different to what you already know. Less, probably, because I can't be bothered with a lot of the backstory on this and that. Plus, I'm a lazy so-and-so. Plus, more importantly, I don't know the family so shouldn't really be spouting off, anyway.

Isn't there a part of the Victory tour which is all Jermaine's? Like, Michael steps back and we hear some of Jermaine's songs for a few minutes? I'm pretty sure that was my cooling off period. I think I might have taken the dog out during that lol. But I have to thank Jermaine, because that break is the only reason I'm still alive to write about it to this day. Michael would have destroyed me otherwise haha.

Jermaine wasn't on the Triumph tour which is what I was getting pulled up on. He's there on Victory. Haven't watched a show in its entirety yet. I've been jumping around like a mad person. If you are right, if it turns out there is an entire Jermaine section I might have to go and make a cup of coffee, lol. The guy is a decent performer. Decent voice. Writes a good song. Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming is really good. But I'm pretty lukewarm about him. I do think the brothers together are more awesome than I had realised. They are more than the sum of the parts. Although it never fails to blow me away, when Michael starts his part on Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming, how the quality goes up by at least 1000%. It's actually hilarious how much better everything gets from that point on. Tbf, I do have some sympathy for the brothers. It can't be easy being a performing artist sibling of a musical genius who could do more at age 12 than you can do as an adult.

I absolutely go to J5 and Jacksons stuff when I need to be uplifted! But I also some days can't handle it. He's so joyful and beautiful and pure that sometimes I can't emotionally withstand it knowing the hurt he was feeling then and would later feel. But when i'm not in that headspace, I can just marvel at him forever. He was so magnetic.

I can't watch Michael doing We're Almost There. That's too much. Looking at his open, hopeful, joyful face and knowing what's behind him and what's coming further down the line. There are some songs I can't listen to. But there is quite a lot I can watch and it's like a balm to my spirit.

They work so well together as a group and I love that. And Michael is so freakin' awesome at every stage of his life. It's funny cos sometimes it feels *less* emotionally wearing watching him at that stage in his life. I know I'm contradicting myself now but sometimes it's easier watching the early stuff. There's a sort of purity about it - oh, hang on, you just used the word 'pure'. Yes, absolutely, that's it. Not that he isn't pure later on but there's something about him, especially as a teenager, that is just so ... he kind of has a light all around him at that point. I'm convinced I can almost see it.

 

[staywild23]

Ach, really don't wanna go there. Don't wanna get into it. And I won't know anything that's different to what you already know. Less, probably, because I can't be bothered with a lot of the backstory on this and that. Plus, I'm a lazy so-and-so. Plus, more importantly, I don't know the family so shouldn't really be spouting off, anyway.

Totally understand, I was just curious

If you are right, if it turns out there is an entire Jermaine section I might have to go and make a cup of coffee, lol. The guy is a decent performer. Decent voice. Writes a good song. Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming is really good. But I'm pretty lukewarm about him. I do think the brothers together are more awesome than I had realised. They are more than the sum of the parts. Although it never fails to blow me away, when Michael starts his part on Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming, how the quality goes up by at least 1000%. It's actually hilarious how much better everything gets from that point on. Tbf, I do have some sympathy for the brothers. It can't be easy being a performing artist sibling of a musical genius who could do more at age 12 than you can do as an adult.

I went back and rewatched this performance so I could comment. Jermaine is honestly great. His voice is great and the song is really good. But you are absolutely right. The song takes off when Michael joins in. As someone wrote in the comments "when Michael comes in it's like a musical eclipse." And to your latter point, someone else wrote "It must suck to be Jermaine. He is talented but when you are on stage with Michael it's like you aren't there." I can totally understand why there was likely some envy in that family. It's an entire family of serious talent, but when you have someone as ridiculously good as Michael, it's got to be hard to deal with sometimes!

Not that he isn't pure later on but there's something about him, especially as a teenager, that is just so ... he kind of has a light all around him at that point. I'm convinced I can almost see it.

I'm 100% sure that I can! I am sure you can too. It is undeniable!

 

[filmandmusic]

Although it never fails to blow me away, when Michael starts his part on Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming, how the quality goes up by at least 1000%. It's actually hilarious how much better everything gets from that point on.

I might be biased as a fan but I have this reaction in most if his duets. Say say say jumps from casual to exciting when Michael takes over.
I think only Stevie Wonder has been a singer capable of matching Michael’s vocal expressiveness in duets.

But like I said maybe us fans are blinded because I have heard and read non fans opinions on his singing that they think it is irritating with all the vocal tics and grunts etc.
Especially during the mid 90 I read opinions on songs like “is it scary” or “ ghosts” how MJ sounds half arsed or plain bad on these songs. I simply don’t hear it, I’m puzzled by such blasphemy or maybe deaf, I don’t know.

 

[zinniabooklover]

But like I said maybe us fans are blinded because I have heard and read non fans opinions on his singing that they think it is irritating with all the vocal tics and grunts etc.

I don't identify as a fan.

But you're right. Some people, even people who basically like his work, get irritated by the vocalisations, as I call them. Whereas I can't get enough of them. Vocalisations and backing vocals, I like them almost more than lead vocals. I love the way he uses his voice as percussion.
I think the layers and textures all of that brings to a song, it's priceless.

Especially during the mid 90 I read opinions on songs like “is it scary” or “ ghosts” how MJ sounds half arsed or plain bad on these songs. I simply don’t hear it, I’m puzzled by such blasphemy or maybe deaf, I don’t know.

Is It Scary is one of his best songs, imo. It's operatic, wild, there's about 5 stories in there (at least!), it's beautiful, it is truly scary, it is shocking, it's a fairy tale. It's just everything. His vocal performance frightens me, consoles me, excites me, astonishes me, soothes me. I can understand someone not liking it but I can't understand someone thinking Michael's performance is actually bad.

I don't like Whitney Houston. She had a great voice but I don't like the sound of it, I didn't like the way she used it and I didn't like her choice of material. So I can see why other people like her but I just don't. So if someone didn't like how Michael *used* his voice on Is It Scary I'd be OK with that. But to dismiss it as a bad performance, that's weird.

 

[filmandmusic]

All I can say is nobody sings like Michael Jackson, it is totally unique and anybody else trying to replicate it sounds like a bad copycat, it is a genre in itself.

Some people critique Michael saying he copied his dance moves but nobody can claim he copied other artists singing style. His voice and vocal style is immediately recognizable and that in itself is amazing because not many artists can say they have a unique style
As for his dancing they are partly right, he took most of it from his own idols but they way he incorporates those moves to his own stylizations again makes it completely his own. Michael added so much to the Fred Astaire, the street dancing and JB moves and couple that with his vocals and stage clothing and it is totally unique.
Michael‘s entire body moves, from his facial expressions to his fingers and legs, it is an entire style in itself. When he is walking across stage he is basically dancing from one end to the other. Such swagger and style. He also never stopped evolving in his dancing, over his career he saw new stuff and he all incorporated them into his move set and it was always as if it was part of him right from the start. His dancing in each decade looks different yet undeniably Michael Jackson
No other artist in the future can emerge and do this because he will be called a copycat.

 

[zinniabooklover]

Some people critique Michael saying he copied his dance moves

I maintain that anyone who says this does not know the first thing about dance. Look, I'm not a person who thinks that every single thing Michael ever did was better than anyone else's efforts in the whole history of the world. But, fgs, he is not copying anyone. Dance just doesn't work like that. Inspiration and adoration weave together to add fuel and fire to the ideas and creativity of the dancer or choreographer. Plus, there's a person's own physicality. Jackie Wilson and Marlon Jackson share a loose suppleness that I do not see in Michael or James Brown. But those two have skills and talents that Marlon and Jackie don't have.

A dancer who isn't very talented might copy other people, I guess. A gifted, genius dancer like Michael? No. Doesn't happen. Being *inspired* by someone? Yes, of course. Blending elements of their style into your own work? Yes. But straight up copying? No and no and no. You take your inspiration from others and then you build something new and beautiful.

As for his dancing they are partly right,

You see I would want to dig my heels in and say, no! I'm not having a go at you, f&m. I just object to the vocabulary choices that people make. If they said Michael is inspired by James Brown, OK. Or that he incorporated certain elements of James' style, sure. But not that he copied. Maybe it depends on how they are defining the word 'copy'. James and Michael both do a foot shuffle. Michael's version is so different to James' version that I just can't see it as 'copying'.

he took most of it from his own idols but they way he incorporates those moves to his own stylizations again makes it completely his own.

Exactly so.

Michael added so much to the Fred Astaire, the street dancing and JB moves couple, that with his vocals and stage clothing and it is totally unique.

The other thing that is interesting about all of this is that, in the world of fine art, when people are learning how to be an artist, they start out by copying. That is exactly what they do. Even Picasso did it.

 

[filmandmusic]

Nothing to add here @zinniabooklover I’m on the same page

 

[Hiker]

So ..... I caved in and started watching Victory tour Toronto. That's the first one which popped up on YT. So far I have watched till Human Nature, so its all Michael's songs. Its different, VERY different. He is singing, not performing. And I am not saying that in any complaining way. Just objectively that the focus is singing. Since I am going backwards, started with HIStory, it is just different watching Michael sing without constant crotch grabbing and other sexy moves. Especially during Human Nature, he looks almost angry singing it as oppose to out of this world sexy way he does it during Bad and Dangerous. I got almost scared when he shouted "how do you feel" between songs instead of the usual "I love you", at least I think it was him! I had to respond back that I was ok, but I am crying now because you scared me! instead of "I love you more".

..... but .... the energy! WOW! Really wow! And the voice! Its so powerful. I do see what all the fuss about live singing is here. On dancing he is still finding his style. If I started here instead of HIStory, maybe it would have been the other way, I might have been disappointed by reduced live singing later. (or maybe not, who am I kidding! My life won't be complete without watching Michael dance provocatively all over the floor, singing or no singing!)

In so far I am not blown away because I am so much more into dancing than singing, but I do understand all the hoopla around Victory tour and live singing from others. Will I complete it, probably. Will I watch another full one, probably not. Will I watch short snippets from Victory, probably yes. And this is just my personal opinion, so don't be offended. Art is subjective.

 

[staywild23]

So ..... I caved in and started watching Victory tour Toronto. That's the first one which popped up on YT. So far I have watched till Human Nature, so its all Michael's songs. Its different, VERY different. He is singing, not performing. And I am not saying that in any complaining way. Just objectively that the focus is singing. Since I am going backwards, started with HIStory, it is just different watching Michael sing without constant crotch grabbing and other sexy moves. Especially during Human Nature, he looks almost angry singing it as oppose to out of this world sexy way he does it during Bad and Dangerous. I got almost scared when he shouted "how do you feel" between songs instead of the usual "I love you", at least I think it was him! I had to respond back that I was ok, but I am crying now because you scared me! instead of "I love you more".

..... but .... the energy! WOW! Really wow! And the voice! Its so powerful. I do see what all the fuss about live singing is here. On dancing he is still finding his style. If I started here instead of HIStory, maybe it would have been the other way, I might have been disappointed by reduced live singing later. (or maybe not, who am I kidding! My life won't be complete without watching Michael dance provocatively all over the floor, singing or no singing!)

In so far I am not blown away because I am so much more into dancing than singing, but I do understand all the hoopla around Victory tour and live singing from others. Will I complete it, probably. Will I watch another full one, probably not. Will I watch short snippets from Victory, probably yes. And this is just my personal opinion, so don't be offended. Art is subjective.

I totally appreciate your honest opinion, even if I don't agree with it

I am absolutely CRAZY about Michael's live vocals. They wreck me. I am also crazy about his dancing. As much as I'm in love with his more overt sexy crotch grabbing and whatnot, I totally love his dancing prior to all of that being so prominent. I don't know if I agree that he's still finding his style in Victory...I think he certainly had it already, but it just evolves into something different later. I think Victory and HIStory are just different versions of him. But I think this is why I love the Bad performances the most out of all (besides his perfect curls, sweat, smile, stage outfits....sorry, got distracted). For me they have the perfect balance of the live vocals that drive me insane and the sexy dancing that lives in my fantasies forever lol.

Either way though, I will always love all of the tours. I find myself watching HIStory a lot, especially the first half. I really love those performances and I love Michael in them. I think fans are, by and large, unfair in how much they criticize those shows. They are the first ones I saw a lot of because of how popular they are on YouTube and they blew my mind, even though a lot of fans find fault in them. So I actually love hearing that you (and I'm sure others) prefer those tours on some level because of the dancing appreciation. I think I will personally always prefer the tours with entirely, or mostly live vocals because I feel like he transcends. Sometimes I legitimately feel God when I'm watching him sing live, which probably sounds crazy, but it's true. He can bring me to tears while also setting my entire being on fire. His voice feels otherworldly to me. I've established that I think he's my favorite vocalist ever. His voice really, deeply touches me in every way.

But this is what's so brilliant about Michael. Whether you are a person heavily moved by voice, or by dance, or both he will amaze the hell out of you

 

[filmandmusic]

Well Hiker he still dances during the Victory tour as well, I remember some really cool moves from the Toronto show!
I don‘t think he is searching for his trademark style here, imo it was already fully there. Motown 25, beat and thriller videos all contain his most famous trademarks moves and this is all before the Victory tour.
It only looks different because Michael kept expanding his moves, incorporating different styles and moves throughout his entire career. The dancing on each tour is slightly tweaked and I am sure there would be new stuff during the this is it tour as well.
You can’t deny though the singing here is light years ahead of the 90s tours.

 

[Hiker]

I don't know if I agree that he's still finding his style in Victory...I think he certainly had it already, but it just evolves into something different later. I think Victory and HIStory are just different versions of him.

Yeah, that's the correct way of putting it. The style evolved as his own life evolved.

But I think this is why I love the Bad performances the most out of all (besides his perfect curls, sweat, smile, stage outfits....sorry, got distracted). For me they have the perfect balance of the live vocals that drive me insane and the sexy dancing that lives in my fantasies forever lol.

I was thinking exactly that. There is still that raw energy in Bad, lot of live singing and dancing is much more evolved. Being the solo tour he would have felt it was more 'his' and that shows.

Motown 25, beat and thriller videos all contain his most famous trademarks moves and this is all before the Victory tour

I am speaking solely on tour, the specific moved I was thing about are JB heel shuffle, robot, mine and shoulder moves that we see a lot later. They were not so visible in the first 30 minutes I saw. But as @staywild23 put it, those evolved over time, especially on stage. Some existed in videos before of course. Especially robot is from dancing machine if I am not mistaken. It's the way he used it live that changed.

I thought I would be too bothered by the brothers, but at least in first 30 minutes, I was not. Michael still commanded 100% of my attention. I am encouraged to watch further.

 

[staywild23]

I thought I would be too bothered by the brothers, but at least in first 30 minutes, I was not. Michael still commanded 100% of my attention. I am encouraged to watch further.

Lmao exactly!!! I only have eyes for Michael. No offense meant to the others, but they might as well not even be on stage lol. Can you imagine how hard it was for some of them to accept Michael’s power? Living in his shadow would be really hard if you have similar aspirations. But as a comment I saw on YT said, he just eclipses everything and everyone around him, every time.

 

[zinniabooklover]

Lmao exactly!!! I only have eyes for Michael. No offense meant to the others, but they might as well not even be on stage lol.

I'm finding it's the opposite for me. I'm loving watching Michael for himself, of course, but what I'm really loving is seeing him in the midst of the brothers. He's getting about 75% - 80% of my attention and the rest is for the brothers. Which I'm now remembering is pretty much how it was back in the day. I've been telling myself that my attention was 100% for Michael in J5 and Jackson's days. But the more I delve back into their back catalogue the more I'm remembering it wasn't quite like that.

Watching them onstage I love the way they all use the space, how they move around. Their spatial awareness of each other, how they move around each other. I am so excited to see that. It's awesome. And how they present as rock stars. Tito is very subtle but, oh man, he's got it. Marlon's got the moves. Jackie was always cute. Obviously Michael is on another level but, still, for me the brothers do bring stuff to the table that is really essential. Some of what they bring is just highlighting how fab Michael is but there is other stuff going on as well. I had totally forgotten that. And I can see it more clearly in these live performances vs. the tv appearances from back in the day, much as I love those as well.

I'll leave it there. Me and my router are locked in a deadly battle. The router is gonna win, I know it.