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On the linguistics of Michael Jackson

staywild23 said:
OMGGGGGGG

I adore all things related to Michael's handwriting. I am dying (dying) (DYING) to find the handwritten lyrics to WBSS and Another Part of Me for tattoo related reasons.

Thank you for sharing this. I.AM.SO.EXCITED.
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Searched around a bit for those two, but couldn’t find them. ☹️
 
Agonum said:
Searched around a bit for those two, but couldn’t find them. ☹️
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You're very sweet. I have searched many times for them, but haven't found either. I think we need a thread that is specifically compiling all of his handwritten lyrics so we have a repository of sorts. The last I looked I didn't see such a thread, but I could be wrong. Maybe I just didn't find what I was looking for and dismissed it lol.

Anyway, I really do need these lyrics. I want to get some MJ lyrics tattooed and I have a specific vision for them and they will be much more meaningful if I could get them done in his own handwriting...
 
staywild23 said:
You're very sweet. I have searched many times for them, but haven't found either. I think we need a thread that is specifically compiling all of his handwritten lyrics so we have a repository of sorts. The last I looked I didn't see such a thread, but I could be wrong. Maybe I just didn't find what I was looking for and dismissed it lol.

Anyway, I really do need these lyrics. I want to get some MJ lyrics tattooed and I have a specific vision for them and they will be much more meaningful if I could get them done in his own handwriting...
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Yeah, for sure, and it will be a kick ass tattoo!

His handwriting is very distinctive. He throws in capitals here and there. I wonder what Rose would say about that? 😅

Good thread idea. How’s “Handwritten lyrics repository” for a name?

Edit: Never mind, found an existing thread and tagged you on the bump.
 
Agonum said:
Yeah, for sure, and it will be a kick ass tattoo!

His handwriting is very distinctive. He throws in capitals here and there. I wonder what Rose would say about that? 😅
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I find it so adorable. I also just love the creative process and imagining his scrawling and crossing out, and rewriting, and the temporary, fluid nature of creation. I love picturing the moment he sat down to write whatever lyrics ended up being the lyrics on the track and that whatever his handwriting looked like in that moment reflected him in that exact moment. It's such a beautiful thought to me. Imagining him writing the words in some flickering moment and then 35-40 years later, getting that kind of flickering moment etched on myself. I think tattoo people might get that. Other people might find it weird. Idc. I think it's beautiful :)

Agonum said:
Good thread idea. How’s “Handwritten lyrics repository” for a name?

Edit: Never mind, found an existing thread and tagged you on the bump.
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Bless you
 
Agonum said:
The lyrics for Cheater were most likely not finalized. Yet surely I must have gotten them wrong above.

I just gave the bridge twenty-something listenings, but I can’t for the life of me make out some of the lines (bolded below):



“I live to start the phone” doesn’t make much sense. 😅 Please help me out.

And am I hearing right – it sounds to me like a “dug [or maybe dud] gamit” at 2m 5s?

Edit: For heaven’s sake, did I get the verse wrong, too?


￫​


I’m not sure?

And maybe:


makes more sense as​


But what’s a “getter”?
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To me @Agonum i would consider him saying "go getter" and missing off the "go" maybe... cause he used to do that sometime
so it could be a " go getter" of the ...

-Getter- someone or something that receives, gets, or is given something. the top vote getter [=the person who receives the most votes]


- Go Getter -someone who is very energetic, determined to be successful, and able to deal with new or difficult situations easily: We only recruit go-getters who will be actively involved in the company's development.

So, makes sense?
 
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staywild23 said:
OMGGGGGGG

I adore all things related to Michael's handwriting. I am dying (dying) (DYING) to find the handwritten lyrics to WBSS and Another Part of Me for tattoo related reasons.

Thank you for sharing this. I.AM.SO.EXCITED.
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Worst case scenario, you can always cut and paste words from what’s available? 🤔

Not the same, I know, but… trying to be creative here.
 
wendijane said:
To me @Agonum i would consider him saying "go getter" and missing off the "go" maybe... cause he used to do that sometime
so it could be a " go getter" of the ...

-Getter- someone or something that receives, gets, or is given something. the top vote getter [=the person who receives the most votes]


- Go Getter -someone who is very energetic, determined to be successful, and able to deal with new or difficult situations easily: We only recruit go-getters who will be actively involved in the company's development.

So, makes sense?
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I believe you are correct. To me, it absolutely sounds as if he’s singing “I wrote a letter for the getter of the CIA”.

Having said that, it remains a perplexing line.
 
Maxym said:
I have never heard anyone else saying "throwing stones to hide your hands"... The meaning was explained and I had to force it into my brain "OK ... it means that (still doesn't make any sense to me, or very very far-fetched)" ...
(English is not my mother language.)
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Agonum said:
That’s an interesting one! From what I can gather, it seems to be a saying that is common in Spain? I wonder how Mike came about it, though. I’m honestly cluesless here. Hopefully a Spaniard or just generally knowledgable person can chime in.
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Sadly, I am not that knowledgable person, lol. But here are two articles that I think are really interesting. She isn't examining Michael's use of the phrase so this might qualify as a derail but, to me, there is a lot of interesting stuff here, lots to think about. Posting them in reverse order - for me it makes sense to do it that way. The second one I'm posting isn't as well-written as it could be - it is a little bit uneven - but it is very good and still worth reading, imo.

Elizabeth Amisu - Sept 2017
michaeljacksonstudies.org

‘Throwing Stones to Hide Your Hands’ Revisited by Elizabeth Amisu | The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies | ISSN: 2452-0497

Abstract: In this article, Elizabeth explores her landmark essay, ‘Throwing Stones to Hide Your Hands’ The Mortal Persona of Michael Jackson’, which was one of her first academic pieces on Michael…
michaeljacksonstudies.org


Elizabeth Amisu - June 2014
michaeljacksonstudies.org

Throwing Stones to Hide Your Hands by Elizabeth Amisu

Abstract: Drawing on the emerging scholarly study of ‘Jacksonism’, a movement typified by the study of the multi-modal art, political impact and cultural significance of Michael Jackson…
michaeljacksonstudies.org
 
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Further thoughts:

Spanish idiom - "to throw the stone and hide the hand" which seems to mean - to start some kind of trouble and then not take responsibility for it.

Although I wonder if it can also be seen as more about doing or saying something which you know will hurt someone but you're not even doing it openly. Something like that?

An English phrase which has a similar meaning:
'People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones' - basically saying no-one is without faults. Not an exact match, obvs. Maybe a 'cousin' to the Spanish phrase.
 
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zinniabooklover said:
Sadly, I am not that knowledgable person, lol. But here are two articles that I think are really interesting. She isn't examining Michael's use of the phrase so this might qualify as a derail but, to me, there is a lot of interesting stuff here, lots to think about. Posting them in reverse order - for me it makes sense to do it that way. The second one I'm posting isn't as well-written as it could be - it is a little bit uneven - but it is very good and still worth reading, imo.

Elizabeth Amisu - Sept 2017
michaeljacksonstudies.org

‘Throwing Stones to Hide Your Hands’ Revisited by Elizabeth Amisu | The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies | ISSN: 2452-0497

Abstract: In this article, Elizabeth explores her landmark essay, ‘Throwing Stones to Hide Your Hands’ The Mortal Persona of Michael Jackson’, which was one of her first academic pieces on Michael…
michaeljacksonstudies.org


Elizabeth Amisu - June 2014
michaeljacksonstudies.org

Throwing Stones to Hide Your Hands by Elizabeth Amisu

Abstract: Drawing on the emerging scholarly study of ‘Jacksonism’, a movement typified by the study of the multi-modal art, political impact and cultural significance of Michael Jackson…
michaeljacksonstudies.org
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Wow! The biblical references, those I believe must be because of Jehovah’s witness? I imagine he heard many of those things at a young age.

Have only read the first piece, now onto the second. As always, great finds, @zinniabooklover!

Edit: Added missing letter in ‘onto’.
 
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zinniabooklover said:
An English phrase which has a similar meaning:
'People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones' - basically saying no-one is without faults. Not an exact match, obvs. Maybe a 'cousin' to the Spanish phrase.
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‘Kasta inte sten i glashus’ in Swedish. Yes, I’ve thought about that. As you say, it’s not a perfect match, but the stone is there, at least. Reading that piece you’ve linked above, I couldn’t help but think that there might be some biblical connotations here as well? ‘He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her’ comes to mind. Stone throwing in general is a very biblical thing to do, after all.
 
Agonum said:
Wow! The biblical references, those I believe must be because of Jehovah’s witness?
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I agree. I'm sure he would have known the Hebrew scriptures extremely well so it's very likely the JW influence is playing a part in this.

Agonum said:
I imagine he heard many of those things at a young age.
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He went to church every week, didn't he? With Katherine and ... can't remember. La Toya? Anyway, I'm sure he would have been hearing these stories repeatedly from a very early age. I don't know much about the JW approach to Christian teachings and the Hebrew scriptures but I'm sure they are as deeply immersed in these stories as other Christians.

Agonum said:
Have only read the first piece, now ono the second. As always, great finds, @zinniabooklover!
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She has a lot to say and it's so interesting.

Agonum said:
‘Kasta inte sten i glashus’ in Swedish. Yes, I’ve thought about that. As you say, it’s not a perfect match, but the stone is there, at least. Reading that piece you’ve linked above, I couldn’t help but think that there might be some biblical connotations here as well? ‘He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her’ comes to mind. Stone throwing in general is a very biblical thing to do, after all.
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Exactly so. This is why I mentioned the phrase about stones and glass houses. That's our English way of saying the same thing.
I mean, I imagine it's based on the biblical teaching but got slightly simplified along the way.

It's all so interesting. Stones, hiding hands, not taking responsibility, hurting people, being sinful and yet still pointing the finger.

What have we got? The Naboth story from 1 Kings 21. We've got your example from NT John 8:7. There's a similar one from NT John 10:32

"Jesus said, 'At my Father's direction I have done many good works. For which one are you going to stone me?'"

which, quite frankly, sums up Michael's life - or certain aspects of it - very accurately.

In the context of the Bad story, that line about stones and hands really carries a lot of weight.

Agonum said:
That second piece is fantastic.
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It really is. I can see why she couldn't get it accepted bc there are a few places where she doesn't express herself as clearly as she needs to. Sometimes her vocab goes slightly wonky. But it's a fabulous piece, she does write very well, she has great ideas. She really helps me to untangle my own thoughts and bring them more into focus. She's very hard-hitting. She doesn't tiptoe around stuff which I appreciate bc parts of Michael's story are very difficult and there isn't any point in pretending otherwise.
 
Further dwellings on Cheater: It’s about cheating in the sense of violating rules for one’s own gain, and more specifically mostly about how such behavior negatively effects the protagonist. I’m gonna be real honest here and admit that I’ve always thought it was about a cheating woman. As you can imagine, there’s no wonder then that some of the lyrics wouldn’t make sense to me!
In light of the finding of the handwritten lyrics for the bridge (post #59), a correct reading would seem to be as follows:

I hurt my backbone, baby
I start to givin’ up
Life is an aggravator
The bills are pilin’ up
I broke my radiator
No time to fix it now
No place to lay my body
I really want to shout
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Some thoughts on these bridge lyrics:

I hurt my backbone, baby
I start to givin’ up
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Something is hurt, and it’s looking bad. ‘Backbone’ stands for the core, the courage, the guts. (The ’baby’ is probably thrown in there without much thought, though I guess you could argue that he’s telling his loved one about all this stuff.)

Life is an aggravator
The bills are pilin’ up
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These are very strong words, when you think about it. (And it’s also peculiar how Michael first writes it ‘agrivator’, then later ‘agravator’; again, see the handwritten lyrics in post #59). Perceiving life this way is at least partially attributed to the actions of the cheater.
The second line exemplifies how life is aggravating, or, in other words, how the cheater’s doings effects the protagonist.

I broke my radiator
No time to fix it now
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More examples of how life is aggravating.
The (broken) radiator could also play into an analogy of (lack of) warmth, but I’d say that’s a bit far-fetched. Though I do think ‘radiator’ is oddly specific. Maybe I’m missing something.

No place to lay my body
I really want to shout
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One could be tempted to interpret the second to last line as having to do with a burial, but it must rather be about just having no place to sleep. I assume it builds upon the line with the piling bills, i.e., if you let them pile high enough you’ll soon have no place to stay.
’I really want to shout’ is self-explanatory in that it’s just an exclamation of frustration.

Will try to work through the verses later. I find these lyrics highly interesting.

Edit: pilling ￫ piling (I blame Michael!); it’s also worth noting the grammar in “I start to givin’ up”, which of course would be more correct as “I start to give up”. This, however, I choose to preserve in the lyrics that I’ve presented in this post.
 
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staywild23 said:
I adore all things related to Michael's handwriting. I am dying (dying) (DYING) to find the handwritten lyrics to WBSS and Another Part of Me for tattoo related reasons.
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Not really relevant but, hey ...

FqDmXSvWIAA1aH_
 
staywild23 said:
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!

This is just one more of many millions of Michael-related things that I can only cry out "why not me?" and then go die in a bush somewhere.
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oh, sorry! I just meant it wasn't lyrics. It's not my fault. I'm watching all kinds of things - it's supposed to be therapy - and my mind is all messed up, lol.

Yes, looking again at the photo, I can see what you mean. Look, today I've gone straight from my Jewish study bible to Tik Tok!
 
Agonum said:
Further dwellings on Cheater: It’s about cheating in the sense of violating rules for one’s own gain, and more specifically mostly about how such behavior negatively effects the protagonist. I’m gonna be real honest here and admit that I’ve always thought it was about a cheating woman. As you can imagine, there’s no wonder then that some of the lyrics wouldn’t make sense to me!
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Absolutely loving this whole thoughtful analysis. You've given me so much to think about. I really relate to a lot of this entire thing on a personal level, honestly, and you're making me want to revisit the song in a brand new way. Just wanted to say that. You're awesome :)
 
zinniabooklover said:
Yes, looking again at the photo, I can see what you mean.
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I will always find it incredible that we approach so much Michael content from such vastly different starting perspectives 😂

zinniabooklover said:
Look, today I've gone straight from my Jewish study bible to Tik Tok!
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This is a whiplash I cannot even contemplate! I am both charmed and concerned.
 
staywild23 said:
This is a whiplash I cannot even contemplate! I am both charmed and concerned.
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If you wanna be concerned, lady, you might wanna pop over to the 'big musical tribute' thread. I just posted a vid showing Penn State Blue Band and a bunch of cheerleaders doing (not terribly good, imo) routines to J5 and Michael songs.

I don't even know what to say, lol. No wonder there's a tv programme called Stranger Things!
 
Agonum said:
Who’s doing this? Sounds incredible!
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Here you go. Not sure how successful this would be. I watched the first few minutes and was totally distracted by Michael's doings with the mike stand. Looked at a few of the comments. People seem to like it. I know using tv programmes and so on is normal these days in language learning. I just didn't know Michael was in the mix.

Learn English with Michael Jackson
22m


 
zinniabooklover said:
Here you go. Not sure how successful this would be. I watched the first few minutes and was totally distracted by Michael's doings with the mike stand. Looked at a few of the comments. People seem to like it. I know using tv programmes and so on is normal these days in language learning. I just didn't know Michael was in the mix.

Learn English with Michael Jackson
22m


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Lol! I’m totally with you on that, I get distracted by the moves. What a mesmerizing performance!
 
Agonum said:
Yes, I’ve come across her blog on occasions. It’s a shame she doesn’t cover the way Michael pronunces the words.
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OMG I THOUGHT IT WAS GONNA BE LIKE THAT TOO WHERE SHE WOULD PRONOUNCE THINGS IN MICHAEL'S VOICE AND INSTEAD SHE JUST TEACHES HOW TO PRONOUNCE HIS NAME?? 😭 😭 😭 SO disappointed 😭
 
Agonum said:
Yes, I’ve come across her blog on occasions. It’s a shame she doesn’t cover the way Michael pronunces the words.
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Yeah. I was stoked that she did it, especially with the timing of it, but I do wish she had looked at Michael's pronunciation. I do understand why she didn't but it would have been great, maybe as a separate vid. Although, tbf, I haven't actually looked.

Agonum said:
Lol! I’m totally with you on that, I get distracted by the moves. What a mesmerizing performance!
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His eyes!
 
Agonum, this prob counts as a derail since we all know what Michael's 'hee hee's' sound like so it really doesn't add anything to the discussion but I have to post this. It is imperative. :ROFLMAO:

The Origin of Michael Jackson's Hee Hee
1m 51s

 
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