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Where Invincible went wrong

SilkySnare said:
I mean, I've been listening to the song on both CD and vinyl, official releases, and in all versions I hear audio peaking. Like the waveform going into the red zone, making cracking and hissing sounds through the microphone.
It's like there was no final mastering or something...I like the song, don't get me wrong, but the recording itself is really strange.
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Could you give me the specific time where you hear this, please?
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
Yes creativity wise he had lost his touch and could no longer pen a classic song.

How am I pretending to deliver facts? 😂 I find it rather the other way around with you. Nobody can diss a song or say this album is poor because you're quick to attack them.

Other than this forum and the odd tiktok video, where is all this love for Invincible stating that it's a classic album?

It got universally panned FFS , you can't deny that , fcker (but you will)

And as for where do I hear nasally vocals, all over the album. His nose was in a very bad condition at this point and I believe this is one the reasons why he sounds like this.
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Of course I can deny that Invincible got “universally panned”, because it simply isn’t true.

Please provide a specific example of these nasal vocals you’re talking about.
 
Agonum said:
Define “original”.
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He means doesn't sound like the other songs. Which is fair, I guess. This album is not as diverse musically as your Thriller or Bad. It seems like most Jackson fans hate that, they prefer everything sound entirely different.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
He means doesn't sound like the other songs. Which is fair, I guess. This album is not as diverse musically as your Thriller or Bad. It seems like most Jackson fans hate that, they prefer everything sound entirely different.
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I don’t think that’s it… he said that Threatened is a poor man’s Thriller. And then he went on about it not being original.

What does “original” mean in this context?
 
Agonum said:
Of course I can deny that Invincible got “universally panned”, because it simply isn’t true.

Please provide a specific example of these nasal vocals you’re talking about.
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It did though 😂 you are a right character ain't ya Agonum. Can I ask a personal question, are you bald with a beard and wear glasses?

I have no idea how old you are and I don't give a shit, but if you were old enough to remember the hype and then sudden disappearance of Invincible you will know what I mean.

Invincible was panned across the world and the term 'flop' was associated with it. All the crap about Sony not promoting it is lies.

I don't have to provide you with anything ether, his voice sounds nasally throughout the album , other people have commented on his vocals too.

You can disagree with me all you like, I honestly don't care because I know I'm right 😂

How about you give me examples as to why it didn't flop and tell me about all the hit singles that it had? The tour to promote the album and the whole Vince period.
 
Agonum said:
I don’t think that’s it… he said that Threatened is a poor man’s Thriller. And then he went on about it not being original.

What does “original” mean in this context?
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Threatened is a poor man's Thriller , it was Michael's Thriller track for Invincible and it was rank rotten..... I'd imagine just like your breath
 
Agonum said:
Define “hit material”.
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Monks chanting is "hit material", because those Benedictine Monks records were very popular in the early 1990s. :ROFLMAO: Songs become hits because of promotion (aka payola) by record labels. It has little to do with whatever the song is. A song like Prince's Batdance was #1 and that is mostly samples of dialogue from the Batman movie. Warner Brothers movie department also heavily promoted the 1989 Batman movie, which helped Prince's soundtrack to sell. When the album before it (Lovesexy) didn't sell well in the USA, one of the reasons was the album cover. A major label like Warner Brothers has more money and reach to do than a small indie like Malaco. In the 1920s & 1930s, jazz was mainstream pop music. But jazz has long been out of mainstream audience favor unless you count the smooth jazz of acts like Kenny G and even that was decades ago in the 1980s.

Payola was also sometimes paid to record stores so they would report a record sold more or less than it really did to the trade magazines like Billboard & Cashbox. Labels would also report to the RIAA that records sold less than they really did, so they didn't have to pay as much in royalties. It is also not a requirement to report sales to the RIAA for gold & platinum awards, it's voluntary. Prince once said he didn't know how much the Purple Rain album sold, only what Warners told him. There's been RCA saying that Elvis Presley sold over a billion records and the rumors about sales of Eagles Their Greatest Hits 1971-1975 being spiked. Sales can't really be verified, because when they had those record clubs (12 albums for a penny!) it didn't count as official sales. Neither did cutout records & tapes sold for cheap in stores as well as the street tapes of albums. "Street tapes" were bootlegs sold in flea markets and in store parking lots.
 
Victorious said:
'Don't Walk Away' is a nice song but even a similar, unreleased song like 'Dream Away' sounds way better
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This is what you wrote. You state that the songs are similar, but you obviously cannot explain in what way.
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
It did though 😂 you are a right character ain't ya Agonum. Can I ask a personal question, are you bald with a beard and wear glasses?

I have no idea how old you are and I don't give a shit, but if you were old enough to remember the hype and then sudden disappearance of Invincible you will know what I mean.

Invincible was panned across the world and the term 'flop' was associated with it. All the crap about Sony not promoting it is lies.

I don't have to provide you with anything ether, his voice sounds nasally throughout the album , other people have commented on his vocals too.

You can disagree with me all you like, I honestly don't care because I know I'm right 😂

How about you give me examples as to why it didn't flop and tell me about all the hit singles that it had? The tour to promote the album and the whole Vince period.
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If you are old enough to remember the release of Invincible, I feel sorry for you. Because your rhetoric is that of a child.
 
The album was never "universally panned" literally all the reviews are on Wikipedia and everyone concedes some of the songs are quite good, except for your typical rolling stone trash read. So I'm not sure what point some people are even making.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
The album was never "universally panned" literally all the reviews are on Wikipedia and everyone concedes some of the songs are quite good, except for your typical rolling stone trash read. So I'm not sure what point some people are even making.
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Forget the reviews for a second and think about the actual reception the album got from the general public.

Unless you lived through the era and were aware of the feelings towards Invincible back then you will never be able to understand that it was not well received at all.
 
I wonder if there’s a part of it where reviews sour our experience of something. I know everyone will say “I don’t care about reviews I like what I like” but the air of negativity will be there. Reviewers aside it’s viewed by fans as his worst album and there was definitely a lot of negative press for him at the time of release. I didn’t actually listen to the album until years later and I remember thinking “this isn’t as bad as everyone made out”. But maybe I would’ve thought differently if I had listened to it at the time. I didn’t have enough pocket money to buy it :(
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
Forget the reviews for a second and think about the actual reception the album got from the general public.

Unless you lived through the era and were aware of the feelings towards Invincible back then you will never be able to understand that it was not well received at all.
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I never mentioned reviews. You're saying it was universally panned, idk who it is supposed to be universally?

The fact that MJ sold out MSG, could dance with Chris Tucker and Usher to YRMW and get astronomical hype could appear at Jay-Z, N-Sync, and James Brown performances, and get the same amount of hype at them all, certainly showed he was not "washed" up.

And I don't remember every single incident involving "Invincible" and I doubt you do too. I just remember my sister had the CD and played it, and enjoyed it. And my mother, who was a traditional Jackson's fan, and my dad, who always liked Prince more than MJ anyway, he liked it too. People that listened to the music just, enjoy the music, okay? You seem to have a very high standard anyway, you actively dislike 80% of his discography anyway, I barely even get your tastes.
 
Salami said:
I wonder if there’s a part of it where reviews sour our experience of something. I know everyone will say “I don’t care about reviews I like what I like” but the air of negativity will be there. Reviewers aside it’s viewed by fans as his worst album and there was definitely a lot of negative press for him at the time of release. I didn’t actually listen to the album until years later and I remember thinking “this isn’t as bad as everyone made out”. But maybe I would’ve thought differently if I had listened to it at the time. I didn’t have enough pocket money to buy it :(
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Can you provide me with concrete evidence that fans think it's the worst album?

Negative press at the time the album was released? Prove it

😉

But seriously, thank you for confirming what the general vibe was at the time Invincible was released. These young Scandinavians are getting a little too excited for my liking.
 
Salami said:
I didn’t actually listen to the album until years later and I remember
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I mean, I liked the Casio tracks as they are, even knowing they're (99% likely) fraudulent. People act like MJ made Kanye's Jesus is King or something.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I mean, I liked the Casio tracks as they are, even knowing they're (99% likely) fraudulent. People act like MJ made Kanye's Jesus is King or something.
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Jesus is King…traumatic.

A hill I’m willing to die on is Keep Your Head Up is the best posthumous song “he” did.
 
Salami said:
Jesus is King…traumatic.

A hill I’m willing to die on is Keep Your Head Up is the best posthumous song “he” did.
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Keep Your Head Up is actually a beautiful song and very encouraging. And I'll actually say, it is better (Or I like it better) than The Lost Children, and I liked it more than Best of Joy for a long time.

In fact, I will go as far as saying a lot of Invincible material actually. I'll say that most of the outtakes we've gotten, I've clicked with faster than most of Invincible. I'm still not huge on Cry or Speechless. And most Invincible outtakes were better. I just don't see the point in changing invincible, it really would have to be upended from conception on. Maybe even just not make a follow up to HIStory at all. Not for another long set of years anyway, he was getting a bit oversaturated.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I never mentioned reviews. You're saying it was universally panned, idk who it is supposed to be universally?

The fact that MJ sold out MSG, could dance with Chris Tucker and Usher to YRMW and get astronomical hype could appear at Jay-Z, N-Sync, and James Brown performances, and get the same amount of hype at them all, certainly showed he was not "washed" up.

And I don't remember every single incident involving "Invincible" and I doubt you do too. I just remember my sister had the CD and played it, and enjoyed it. And my mother, who was a traditional Jackson's fan, and my dad, who always liked Prince more than MJ anyway, he liked it too. People that listened to the music just, enjoy the music, okay? You seem to have a very high standard anyway, you actively dislike 80% of his discography anyway, I barely even get your tastes.
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MJ hadn't performed in mainland USA since the BAD Tour, a reunion with his brothers for the 30th anniversary concert, of course it would sell out and rightly so, the man was awesome.

You have no idea then how MJ was perceived by most of the world outside of MJ fans in the early 2000s , he was the butt of all jokes, a weirdo , a freak , a child molester, a has been. A lot of this stigma where Invincible was also caught up in it.

FYI , I love most stuff from MJ, but I can spot a weak track when I hear it, I'm not blinded by my love of Michael.
 
Where Invincible went right though…You Rock My World is top 5 MJ. I’m grateful for the album just for that.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I just don't see the point in changing invincible, it really would have to be upended from conception on. Maybe even just not make a follow up to HIStory at all. Not for another long set of years anyway, he was getting a bit oversaturated.
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This, I think, actually, is the real "problem" with Invincible. Michael was just oversaturated. The mystique started to feel like it was gone. He wasn't doing well and so he shouldn't have been doing much at all. If fighting in court would've helped him then I wish he had gotten the chance to. 1993 permanently changed him and it wasn't just fixed cause of a marriage an album to express how he feels. It's just a shame how it all went.
 
Salami said:
Where Invincible went right though…You Rock My World is top 5 MJ. I’m grateful for the album just for that.
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I've always enjoyed you rock my world , the bridge is one of my favourite parts in it.

I sound like a broken record but you will know that at time of release, it wasn't that well received either but as the years have gone on, it's been receiving much more love than it did when it first came out!
 
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