Let's make it clear. Which MJ's credits on Invincible songs are authentic?

[Stain Finkins]

Obviously about 80% of this album has nothing to do with Michael.
Most of Invincible songs made with one formula:
somebody wrote song, then gave it to Michael, Michael put his vocals on it, done.

But the problem is, that even Darckchild's songs have faked MJ credits

Few years ago You Rock My World and Threatened writer's demo were leaked with LaShawn Daniels vocals on it. So these 2 songs certainly were made without Michael's proper contribution.

Privacy was probably made without Michael too, because it contains mistake in lyrics about Diana Princess and Slash, who never participated in Privacy creating process.

These leaves us with three songs, that Michaels could actually co-wrote.
But, I don't think Heartbreaker one of them, because of chorus part.

If Michael would really co-written this song, then he would record chorus with his own voice! But there is no even part in lyrics when he says title of this song! And I don't hear him really connected with this song. He sung it just like it was his regular job

You can argue with me and mention beatboxing as a proof of Michael co-writing credits. But remember, that even Cry has some kind of Michael's beatboxing, still this song was made without MJ. So Mike could just easily put his beatbox over Heartbreaker just to make it sound like his song.


That's why I believe Unbreakable and Invincible are the only Darkchild's songs, which Michael really contributed and participated to create. And there a lot of proofs for it

He was interested in Unbreakable, wanted to make it as leas single. He sung chorus part in both of these songs. I think, his vocals on these songs are amazing. You can hear that he really connected with lyrics

So in the end I think, 4 of 16 songs on Invincible has authentic MJ credits, because he REALLY worked on them.

 

[Fuzball]

@Richard76

@Ronald Stain:

@Mark Shaw

@Michael Afton

@Masonh

@Stain Finkins

 

[Spaceship]

"Speechless" and "The Lost Children". That's about it.

Privacy was probably made without Michael too, because it contains mistake in lyrics about Diana Princess and Slash, who never participated in Privacy creating process.

A lot of songs change details to appear more ambiguous and make people wonder what was really meant by the lyrics.

MJ yelled "Slash!" because he was originally intended to be on the song, but it didn't pan out. They just left that line in.

MJ probably wrote a few of the lyrics (the ones alluding to Diana and the 1993 strip search), but he probably wasn't involved with the bulk of the song. The rest of the lyrics, the melody, the beat, etc were all by the Darkchild team. I believe Darkchild played some of the demo a few years ago.

That's why I I believe Unbreakable and Invincible are the only Darkchild's songs, which Michael really contributed and participated to create. And there a lot of proofs for it

He was interested in Unbreakable, wanted to make it as leas single. He sung chorus part in both of these songs. I think, his vocals on these songs are amazing. You can hear that he really connected with lyrics

He was interested in "Threatened", too, but we can tell by the demo he wasn't much involved with it.

"Unbreakable" is based on Biggie's song "Unbelievable" from his 1994 debut album Ready to Die. It's unlikely MJ had any hand in the song "Invincible"; aside from the vocals, nothing about that song comes across like MJ made it.

 

[DuranDuran]

But there is no even part in lyrics when he says title of this song!

There's a lot of songs by many singers & bands where the title isn't mentioned (and I don't mean instrumentals either ). There's other songs that does have the title in them, but another line is sung more than the title and some people think that is the name of the song.

 

[AlwaysThere]

I keep seeing people say “Unbreakable” is based on “Unbelievable,” and I just don’t hear it. The melodies are… similar, I guess. But I don’t think there’s any actual link between the two.

“Speechless” and “The Lost Children” are absolutely MJ. Everything else likely isn’t, especially “Whatever Happens,” “Don’t Walk Away,” and “Heaven Can Wait.”

 

[Spaceship]

I keep seeing people say “Unbreakable” is based on “Unbelievable,” and I just don’t hear it. The melodies are… similar, I guess. But I don’t think there’s any actual link between the two.

>melodically similar
>similarly named
>have the same rapper

I don't think there's any coincidence here lol

 

[Stain Finkins]

"Unbreakable" is based on Biggie's song "Unbelievable" from his 1994 debut album Ready to Die. It's unlikely MJ had any hand in the song "Invincible"; aside from the vocals, nothing about that song comes across like MJ made it.

And that's another proof, why I think MJ really co-wrote this song. He was a big fan of Biggie, so I want to believe it was his idea to use same melody and Biggies vocals.

And it was rumoured that Michael got inspired by Unbreakable movie with Samuel Jackson. So I really hope this is all was his idea

 

[innuendo141]

Obviously about 80% of this album has nothing to do with Michael.
Most of Invincible songs made with one formula:
somebody wrote song, then gave it to Michael, Michael put his vocals on it, gave himself a writing credit, done.

FTFY

 

[mjjfan81]

"Speechless" and "The Lost Children". That's about it.



A lot of songs change details to appear more ambiguous and make people wonder what was really meant by the lyrics.

MJ yelled "Slash!" because he was originally intended to be on the song, but it didn't pan out. They just left that line in.

MJ probably wrote a few of the lyrics (the ones alluding to Diana and the 1993 strip search), but he probably wasn't involved with the bulk of the song. The rest of the lyrics, the melody, the beat, etc were all by the Darkchild team. I believe Darkchild played some of the demo a few years ago.



He was interested in "Threatened", too, but we can tell by the demo he wasn't much involved with it.

"Unbreakable" is based on Biggie's song "Unbelievable" from his 1994 debut album Ready to Die. It's unlikely MJ had any hand in the song "Invincible"; aside from the vocals, nothing about that song comes across like MJ made it.

The leaked demos for Threatened and Break of Dawn actually only bare a passing resemblance to the finished songs, so there is every chance MJ contributed to those ones.

With HCW, we can hear from the writers demo that most of the song was intact before MJ heard it, but the whole "leave me alone" outro section was added to it by MJ. It's not a huge contribution but does close the song out nicely.

I'm also inclined to believe MJ wrote the lyrics to at least verse 2 of Privacy. They sound like his bad grasp of the English language lol.
MJ is listed in the credits as "music programming" on Heartbreaker, Invincible and 2000 Watts, whatever that is.

 

[Spaceship]

The leaked demos for Threatened and Break of Dawn actually only bare a passing resemblance to the finished songs, so there is every chance MJ contributed to those ones.

The demo for "Break of Dawn" never leaked. Only the demo for Dr. Freeze's "Twilight" did. "Twilight" was the basis for "Break of Dawn", but they're still separate songs. Dr. Freeze confirmed MJ contributed nothing to "Break of Dawn" beyond his vocals.

The demo for "Threatened" never leaked in full. I think the snippet is close enough to the final song; it's just less produced.

 

[Stain Finkins]

The demo for "Break of Dawn" never leaked. Only the demo for Dr. Freeze's "Twilight" did. "Twilight" was the basis for "Break of Dawn", but they're still separate songs. Dr. Freeze confirmed MJ contributed nothing to "Break of Dawn" beyond his vocals.

The demo for "Threatened" never leaked in full. I think the snippet is close enough to the final song; it's just less produced.

Still, I believe he contributed Unbreakable and Invincible more than other songs

There gotta be a reason why he wanted to name album with the title of this songs

 

[Spaceship]

Still, I believe he contributed Unbreakable and Invincible more than other songs

There gotta be a reason why he wanted to name album with the title of this songs

He didn't contribute to "Off the Wall" or "Thriller" beyond his vocals, yet those were the names of two albums of his.

 

[MJJacksonizer]

MJ got his name on the tracks because that's how it works in the industry. I remember reading that Gil Cang (co-writer for Whatever Happens) said Teddy Riley told him either MJ and himself get writing credits or his song was not getting on the album. That's just the industry game, just look at Beyoncé's credits lol

 

[Stain Finkins]

MJ got his name on the tracks because that's how it works in the industry. I remember reading that Gil Cang (co-writer for Whatever Happens) said Teddy Riley told him either MJ and himself get writing credits or his song was not getting on the album. That's just the industry game, just look at Beyoncé's credits lol

Beyonce doesn't exist in my music world! I listen only those singers, who really writes or co-writes their songs!

~65% of Michael's discography are his song. That' why he is in my playlist!

 

[Peter_Pan]

It would be interesting to study Mike creative level post 1999, if we can come up with outtakes from the Invincible session that Mike had some contribution creating.

I became die hard fan in 1994, and believed everything Mike said or did. I was a naive 15year old.

After BODF I kept waiting for a New Album (basing it on the 4-5year) gap, expecting it to drop in 1999 to capture the Y2K fever. Also believe that he will pull off “The nightmares of Edgar Allan Poe”.

Now in my 40’s I’m reasonably convinced that Mike had become a creative has been post 1996.

Would have been fine if Mike just announced retirement like Elton did a few years later. With Madonna’s (apparent reinvention) Ray of Light and Mike promise about “You ain’t seen nothing yet” and “the best is yet to come”, the over promise was doomed from the onset.

All we got is montage fan videos on the lines of “The king returns in 2002, 2003 and so on”. 2003 trail was the end, which some of us fans refused to accept.

But with WHE, In the back… there was some signs of brilliance left. Was that leftover or brilliance intact… I’m not sure.

Mike backing out of projects, studio times and relatively lesser know stories of collaborators like Vincent Patterson initially refusing to work on BODF video terming Mike erratic and irresponsible toward rehearsal schedules and Brad Buxer refusing to give up his pilot career, claiming that Mike was not dedicated enough to work, indicates that there was not going to be a come back.

(Aware that during BODF video shoot, He was on a world tour, so that’s genuine excuse that Vincent Patterson didn’t factor in).

With regards to This is It. It reminds me of what has become of “Not in this Lifetime” tour. GnR tough touring for 9years have become a Nostalgia act. My guess is Mike would have ended up in a similar way with This is it.

Sadly, We had seen the best already and The best had already passed with History !

 

[kreen]

He only wrote The Lost Children and Speechless. He had zero involvement in the writing of all the other tracks.

 

[Fuzball]

Mike promise about “You ain’t seen nothing yet” and “the best is yet to come”, the over promise was doomed from the onset.

Sadly, We had seen the best already and The best had already passed with History !

If Michael was sincerely honest about what he said, I guess it he meant his unreleased songs that he'd written and/or recorded in the past.

 

[aazzaabb]

Beyonce doesn't exist in my music world! I listen only those singers, who really writes or co-writes their songs!

~65% of Michael's discography are his song. That' why he is in my playlist!

I never understood this mentality. It seems incredibly reductive and limiting. In MY music world, I either like a song or I don’t, or from time to time a song or album or artist will grow on me and I actually enjoy it when that happens.

The whole “I’ll only listen to someone who wrote what they’re singing” though is bonkers in my opinion. Some of the absolute best songs in popular culture were/are written by other people and some of the best songs of all time are cover versions.

 

[Stain Finkins]

I never understood this mentality. It seems incredibly reductive and limiting. In MY music world, I either like a song or I don’t, or from time to time a song or album or artist will grow on me and I actually enjoy it when that happens.

The whole “I’ll only listen to someone who wrote what they’re singing” though is bonkers in my opinion. Some of the absolute best songs in popular culture were/are written by other people and some of the best songs of all time are cover versions.

I'm part of Republican and Conservatism. That's why I respect only authenticity and copyright. For me it's really important to be sure about truth.

Singing somebody else songs is probably part of democracy. I'm not part of it sorry

 

[Fuzball]

I never understood this mentality.

That guy is trolling - ever since he's joined this forum with numerous usernames/accounts.

 

[MJJacksonizer]

Beyonce doesn't exist in my music world! I listen only those singers, who really writes or co-writes their songs!

~65% of Michael's discography are his song. That' why he is in my playlist!

OK?

 

[MKTCREATE]

@Richard76

@Ronald Stain:

@Mark Shaw

@Michael Afton

@Masonh

@Stain Finkins

Haha nailed it.

 

[Fuzball]

Haha nailed it.

There are probably some more that I forgot.

 

[Michaels Lover]

@Richard76

@Ronald Stain:

@Mark Shaw

@Michael Afton

@Masonh

@Stain Finkins

this guy is not normal

 

[DuranDuran]

That's why I respect only authenticity and copyright. For me it's really important to be sure about truth.

You don't know who writes songs or not. You were not there. It's not something that can be proven. Anybody can be put on song credits. There's ghostwriters who are not credited at all, the songs are credited to whoever paid the ghostwriters. Decades ago it was common for label heads, managers, mafia guys, etc. to steal credits from the actual writers. The mob had a hand in entertainment in general, including old Hollywood film studios. In more recent times, it's long been rumored that Suge Knight hung Vanilla Ice from a balcony to get some his publishing. Also, for the entire time the recording industry existed only a very small percentage wrote their own material. Some bands give every member credits, whether they had anything to do with the writing or not. There's bands where the lead singer is not the person who usually writes the lyrics, but another member (Rush, Mötley Crüe, Depeche Mode). In jazz, it was often the bandleader only who got the credits, even if the sidemen were involved in the process. Especially since a lot of jazz is improvised during the recording and not writen out beforehand.

 

[flight85]

You don't know who writes songs or not. You were not there. It's not something that can be proven. Anybody can be put on song credits. There's ghostwriters who are not credited at all, the songs are credited to whoever paid the ghostwriters. Decades ago it was common for label heads, managers, mafia guys, etc. to steal credits from the actual writers. The mob had a hand in entertainment in general, including old Hollywood film studios. In more recent times, it's long been rumored that Suge Knight hung Vanilla Ice from a balcony to get some his publishing. Also, for the entire time the recording industry existed only a very small percentage wrote their own material. Some bands give every member credits, whether they had anything to do with the writing or not. There's bands where the lead singer is not the person who usually writes the lyrics, but another member (Rush, Mötley Crüe, Depeche Mode). In jazz, it was often the bandleader only who got the credits, even if the sidemen were involved in the process. Especially since a lot of jazz is improvised during the recording and not writen out beforehand.

So invincible had a lot of ghostwriters? Interesting. Was MJ forced? Why the lack of promotion? Confusing stuff.

 

[Stain Finkins]

You don't know who writes songs or not. You were not there. It's not something that can be proven. Anybody can be put on song credits. There's ghostwriters who are not credited at all, the songs are credited to whoever paid the ghostwriters. Decades ago it was common for label heads, managers, mafia guys, etc. to steal credits from the actual writers. The mob had a hand in entertainment in general, including old Hollywood film studios. In more recent times, it's long been rumored that Suge Knight hung Vanilla Ice from a balcony to get some his publishing. Also, for the entire time the recording industry existed only a very small percentage wrote their own material. Some bands give every member credits, whether they had anything to do with the writing or not. There's bands where the lead singer is not the person who usually writes the lyrics, but another member (Rush, Mötley Crüe, Depeche Mode). In jazz, it was often the bandleader only who got the credits, even if the sidemen were involved in the process. Especially since a lot of jazz is improvised during the recording and not writen out beforehand.

It doesn't matter. Invincible fraud is one of the greatest fraud in music history.

MJ blackmailing other artists for writing credits - is that reallly what we really should accept?

This is what a good innocent Gil Cang (co-writer for Whatever Happens) said about Invincible sessions:

"Teddy Riley told me either MJ and himself get writing credits or my song will never getting on the album"

And what about Richard Stites case? What about Dr. Freeze? They all were deceived. That's so wrong

 

[Fuzball]

It doesn't matter. Invincible fraud is one of the greatest fraud in music history.

This is what a good innocent Gil Cang (co-writer for Whatever Happens) said about Invincible sessions:

"Teddy Riley told me either MJ and himself get writing credits or my song will never getting on the album"

There's no fraud at all. Please stop trolling around.

Michael's asked for undue credits, which were given to him more or less voluntarily.

 

[DuranDuran]

one of the greatest fraud in music history.

I thought it was Milli Vanilli.

So invincible had a lot of ghostwriters? Interesting. Was MJ forced? Why the lack of promotion? Confusing stuff.

I wasn't talking about Invincible. But it's been said that Drake & Puff Daddy used ghostwriters (and ghost producers too in Puffy's case). I think ghostwriting is looked down on more in hip hop than in other genres. Because it's supposed to be about the skills of the MC rapper.

 

[mj_frenzy]

I keep seeing people say “Unbreakable” is based on “Unbelievable,” and I just don’t hear it. The melodies are… similar, I guess. But I don’t think there’s any actual link between the two.

'Unbreakable' is basically a pop version of the 'Unbelievable' song.

>melodically similar
>similarly named
>have the same rapper

I don't think there's any coincidence here lol

American producer DJ Premier was the guy who created the 'Unbelievable' song.

DJ Premier seems to be connected also with Rodney Jerkins (who created the 'Unbreakable' song).

So invincible had a lot of ghostwriters? Interesting. Was MJ forced? Why the lack of promotion? Confusing stuff.

Note that Michael Jackson himself announced to Sony Music (in the midst of the 'Invincible' album sessions) that he was about to leave them.

So, both parties are to blame for the lack of promotion of that album.

MJ blackmailing other artists for writing credits - is that reallly what we really should accept?

On the 'Invincible' album, Michael Jackson took many undue songwriting credits for himself, but he also allowed members of Rodney Jerkins' team to take many undue songwriting credits for themselves.