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Was MJs success worth it?

someplace_else said:
Sure this level of fame is insane and I think no one can imagine to live like that. But let's not forget, he also chose that path and pushed it further with a lot of choices he made.
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It's interesting you feel he chose that.

I know he wrote a manifesto at the end of a Jackson's tour where he does eerily accurately lay out his intention to be the biggest artist, and this may be a good reference point to the fact that he did chose the path he did.

But I've always felt differently about this.
He was probably performing from his earliest known memory, to the point that not finishing an education or making friends and being the breadwinner in the family was his norm. I have always doubted whether someone who was raised in this manner ever had reference points for alternative paths. I feel he decided to do the best at the only thing he knew, it was like a security blanket that unfortunately suffocated him.

I once read that the Truman Show was inspired by MJ, at the end of the Truman Show the main character becomes aware of another world outside the manufactured world he had been obliviously living in and he was able to escape. I feel MJ never really had that insight or even the chance to escape.
Sadly I think death was his escape.
 
jasmine.uddin said:
It's interesting you feel he chose that.

I know he wrote a manifesto at the end of a Jackson's tour where he does eerily accurately lay out his intention to be the biggest artist, and this may be a good reference point to the fact that he did chose the path he did.

But I've always felt differently about this.
He was probably performing from his earliest known memory, to the point that not finishing an education or making friends and being the breadwinner in the family was his norm. I have always doubted whether someone who was raised in this manner ever had reference points for alternative paths. I feel he decided to do the best at the only thing he knew, it was like a security blanket that unfortunately suffocated him.

I once read that the Truman Show was inspired by MJ, at the end of the Truman Show the main character becomes aware of another world outside the manufactured world he had been obliviously living in and he was able to escape. I feel MJ never really had that insight or even the chance to escape.
Sadly I think death was his escape.
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I would be curious to know more about that manifesto you mentioned. Can you direct me to a reference?
 
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jasmine.uddin said:
It's interesting you feel he chose that.

I know he wrote a manifesto at the end of a Jackson's tour where he does eerily accurately lay out his intention to be the biggest artist, and this may be a good reference point to the fact that he did chose the path he did.

But I've always felt differently about this.
He was probably performing from his earliest known memory, to the point that not finishing an education or making friends and being the breadwinner in the family was his norm. I have always doubted whether someone who was raised in this manner ever had reference points for alternative paths. I feel he decided to do the best at the only thing he knew, it was like a security blanket that unfortunately suffocated him.

I once read that the Truman Show was inspired by MJ, at the end of the Truman Show the main character becomes aware of another world outside the manufactured world he had been obliviously living in and he was able to escape. I feel MJ never really had that insight or even the chance to escape.
Sadly I think death was his escape.
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But I think there would have been no other path for him to go down, don't you think 🤷? What would have been the alternative?

As a kid, of course he was pushed tremendously to go this way. But when he got older or as an adult he did a lot of things to become as famous as he was.
 
I would say as someone who’s been following the conversation about MJ in the black community for her entire life that it has always been an exaggeration amplified by the media that black folks widely rejected Michael. It’s even less accurate now that he’s dead and gone, his appreciation within the black community far outweighs dissenters.
 
R1chard said:
Plus we've come to realise that if you ignore racism it goes away.
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Hi maybe you should test your own subconscious prejudices (racial, gender and other biases) with this test. https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/Study?tid=-1

We are all implicitely influenced by our societies even if it contradicts our social values. According to the researchers behind this test, the only cure against those involuntary prejudices is to actively expose yourself to contrary experiences, like raising your awareness for positive black role models.
Which you obviously do as an MJ fan 🙃
 
squirrelinthetree said:
According to the researchers behind this test, the only cure against those involuntary prejudices is to actively expose yourself to contrary experiences, like raising your awareness for positive black role models.
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Well, after reading this thread, last night I got out my whole-school photo from 1993. I counted every face, and white people made up about 48%. At the time it seemed like every film I saw with my schoolfriends had Eddie Murphy in it (Boomerang etc). We all listened to MC Hammer and watched the NBA...

Then there was that phase where everybody worshipped Samuel L. Jackson and Mike Tyson. But perhaps he's not such a positive role model...

squirrelinthetree said:
Which you obviously do as an MJ fan 🙃
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Another of my childhood heroes is Muhammad Ali. I went to his museum in Louisville about 10 years ago and it really moved me. In fact the only book I've read in the last decade has been his autobiography.
 
A non-fan told me without neverland Mj wouldn't have had all these problems he could have led a normal life with a woman and children like his brothers
 
mjfanboy27 said:
A non-fan told me without neverland Mj wouldn't have had all these problems he could have led a normal life with a woman and children like his brothers
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Certainly Neverland became a huge part of his undoing to the point that he exiled himself from the place. However, I'm not convinced that MJ was ever capable of living a normal life due to the nature of how abnormal his life had been, although he did try for that brief period with LMP.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
Weird that you're assuming I'm black because I'm not so sensitive as to be offended when someone talks about white supremacy. Anyway, I'm not gonna continue this wildly unserious discussion with you.
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I am black, from the Caribbean and proud of it and I see nothing wrong with what OP has stated. Truth can never be wrong. MJ was a black American who like so many others in the music industry made his career but he was not willing to have nothing like so many others did, because if you're the talent you deserve what's fair. I think that all he had accomplished in the music industry is amazing, he changed how music was consumed. It's a shame how it ended for him, he should still be alive but the same industry consumed him and spat him out.
 
This is a very interesting thread.

Let's just say that Michael was born into a family that exploited him since he was 5 years old.
All he knew his all life was the world of entertainment.
He definitely didn't choose to be famous when he was a child but I think that the more he grew up the more he realised that entertaining was his destiny.
At a certain point of his life I think he really dreamed, considering the manifesto as well, to be the biggest entertainer of all time. He achieved that, he went beyond that. He inspired people and keeps doing it to this day. Thriller is still the best selling album of all time, 40+ years later. His dream has become reality!

I really think it was worth it, despite all the controversial things that were said about him, he never stopped, he kept going, he kept inspiring people, he kept raising awareness.

I think Michael was aware of the fact that the more famous you are the more they try to bring you down. He certainly didn't expect to be treated THAT horribly throughout his whole life but he fought for it. He went to court completely broken, people had to hold him 'cause he couldn't stand properly for his back injury. He had to deal with racists comments, he had to explain to the whole world that he had a skin disorder and so on.
If resilience had a person's name that would be Michael Jackson.
 
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I don't think it's up to us to make that choice. Personally, if it meant having the life he had, I'd rather remain the complete anonymity I am.

I saw a video in French (which you can find on my profile with translated subtitles) that said Michael regretted his fame at the end of his life. He said at the time, how much it was hard to him, like a jail.

His mother, Katherine, revisited her son's comments; I seem to recall in an unreleased interview, she said how proud Michael was of his success. Proud, yes, but how proud?

The positive takeaway from all this is that Michael was able to save many lives thanks to his wealth and influence. If he had never been famous, he probably never would have been able to save those children's lives.

That was the price he paid... A very high price :(
 
Interesting question!

For him? No. The torture he endured, both due to his father and the public/press treatment, was unendurable. Nobody deserves to go through what he did, and I firmly believe he would still be with us if not for all that torture.

For us? Yes. He changed things. Music would not be what it is, and black artists would not have the opportunities they have, if not for him. Does that justify what he’s endured? No, but it’s impossible to deny that we have what we have because he was who he was.
 
Simple.. 10000% YES because he spent and gave his entire haert and soul to follow HIS DREAM of being the greatest entertainer that ever lived! It came with a price a dear price he paid by losing hs freedom to do it but it IS what he wanted most in the world besides giving away all his LOVE MESSAGES to all of us!
How could he reach millions unless you are FAMOUS enough to get his LOVE notes through to the entire WORLD and that WORLD LOVED HIM!
Thank you Michael for all your sacrifices you gave and gave to us your LOYL LOVING FANS forever!
😘 🧚‍♀️ 👑
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Michaelounet said:
I don't think it's up to us to make that choice. Personally, if it meant having the life he had, I'd rather remain the complete anonymity I am.

I saw a video in French (which you can find on my profile with translated subtitles) that said Michael regretted his fame at the end of his life. He said at the time, how much it was hard to him, like a jail.

His mother, Katherine, revisited her son's comments; I seem to recall in an unreleased interview, she said how proud Michael was of his success. Proud, yes, but how proud?

The positive takeaway from all this is that Michael was able to save many lives thanks to his wealth and influence. If he had never been famous, he probably never would have been able to save those children's lives.

That was the price he paid... A very high price :(
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I think Michael, once he had his own family, just wasn't that much interested on his career anymore. He loved making music and everything related to it but he wanted to be a father and be there for his children. I don't think he regretted it but he wanted some kind of peace that he never got sadly.
 
I'm starting to wonder if Michael truly loved his job. He said he hated going on tour, and it was mentally and physically exhausting for him.

I think Michael's true calling was film, which is why his music videos were so elaborate. They told a story. Since Michael could sing and dance, and had done so since he was very young, he eventually came to love his work. But his heart still belonged to movies. He was a huge film buff. But I wonder if he had to do it all over again, would he have?

He begins his autobiography, Moonwalk, by saying that he loved telling stories. He loved dancing and singing, but what he loved most of all was writing songs, penning the lyrics, and seeing them come to life.

I can't speak for him, but I think he would have preferred to be an actor or director, even if he wasn't as talented at either. I remember someone once saying that Michael had a profound, almost boundless vision of filmmaking. He could have been a genius director. And directors, despite their troubles, know more peace than musical artists.


Moonwalk, first paragraph from first chapter:
I've always wanted to be able to tell stories, you know, stories that came from my soul. I'd like to sit by a fire and tell people stories - make them see pictures, make them cry and laugh, take them anywhere emotionally with something as deceptively simple as words. I'd like to tell tales to move their souls and transform them. I've always wanted to be able to do that. Imagine how the great writers must feel, knowing they have that power. I sometimes feel I could do it. It's something I'd like to develop. In a way, song writing uses the same skills, creates the emotional highs and lows, but the story is a sketch. It's quicksilver. There are very few books written on the art of storytelling, how to grip listeners, how to get a group of people together and amuse them. No costumes, no makeup, no nothing, just you and your voice, and your powerful ability to take them anywhere, to transform their lives, if only for minutes.
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