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Victory was Michael's biggest mistake

Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I do think MJ would prefer the conditions of the way performing goes now to how it was back then. Far more able to encompass his vision as well.

Concert going is by no means dead, merely transitioning. Recording shows and then providing a home media release is the ideal path though.
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Releasing Victory at some point crossed Michaels mind since he eventually brought in his own crew to start filming. I understand he wanted to pretty much control the aspect of the tour from the audio to the angles and overall presentation but something could've worked out between the brothers. Them signing on for a laserdisc release and not telling him is probably why he blocked it.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
No, it's really not. You scared of dead people on camera? There's movies you shouldn't watch then.

It's sad. But really it's just, iconic. MJ was this iconic and Hollywood was this special. Just like We Are The World, but in miniature.
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Smh why must everything I say u have to be a smug asshole about it. U are a bitter person!
 
I'm not sure where I read this or how true it is for that matter, but I read that Michael intended to record Human Nature live on the Victory Tour, then release it again as a single, but he was unsatisfied with his own performance.

The first thing I thought when I read that was didn't Himan Nature already come out as a single in the summer of 83? It'd be a bit silly to re-release it but then again a video would help promotion.
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:
I'm not sure where I read this or how true it is for that matter, but I read that Michael intended to record Human Nature live on the Victory Tour, then release it again as a single, but he was unsatisfied with his own performance.

The first thing I thought when I read that was didn't Himan Nature already come out as a single in the summer of 83? It'd be a bit silly to re-release it but then again a video would help promotion.
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Never heard of that but the only logical thing I can think of is him using that performance as promotion for the Victory laserdisc.
 
That interesting, it was already known that Michael didn't want to make tour, solo or in group after Victory tour but want to work in movies, imo it was a very good plan, because he could have made different kind of movies with different soundtracks without to fear to be too exposed, I remember to have read lot of articles in this website during Thriller/victory, and there are lot of movies in preparation, in solo and curiously including his brothers too, I remember the title "They Landed" and a movie in preparation with them and Tatum O'Neil for The Shaw Brothers in Hong Kong.

I'm surprised after Thriller, despite the controversy around this director, he didn't have asked John Landis to write and direct a movie for him, Horror director of this generation are well known to work very well and very quickly with modest budget who look bigger.

I'm shocked he (they) didn't put Victory tour in paper view, it's his best tour and would have bring lot of moneys, I think Michael could have convinced his brothers to make lot less concerts but in exchange they put that in cable/paper views etc...

For his future, there are an intesting interview from Frank Dileo during the Victory tour for the french documentary "Les Enfants du Rocks", it's around 8min12:


So, despite that Michael was tired of Tours, has clearly others goals like Movies etc...Dileo was already aware that Michael, and without his brothers, will make a solo European tour later (he wanted to make that in 85), it seem that Michael has no control of his own career despite what he liked to say, that these solo tours of 2 years who have been mistake, the tours with his brothers were always shorts; the fact that he was far less productive, the excessive surgery, the fact he didn't have talked about vitiligo sooner, his solo begin to be in playback etc...fans didnt realize that his reputation during Bad was catastrophic.
 
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why michael didn’t turn up for the ‘torture’ video shoot
 
83magic said:
why michael didn’t turn up for the ‘torture’ video shoot
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He didn't give any information as to why Michael didn't show up.

Michael had the tendency to want to be involved in everything but rarely did he follow through and that's what happened. The crew waited hours for Michael but he never showed and they knew that, which is why they had the wax figure on standby. Michael was at Disneyland with Emmanuel and Jermaine was filming a tv show and videos for his album as well.
 
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BlackAnon said:
Jermaine was filming a tv show and videos for his album as well.
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I think the Torture video was filmed before Jermaine rejoined the group. There's only 5 in the video, not 6. Especially since there's special effects that would take a lot of time to do. Torture was originally Jackie & Mike. When Jermaine came in, he replaced Jackie's lead vocals. Jermaine also does not have any solo leads or wrote any songs on Victory when Randy has 2, just some adlibs on Wait. There were also photo shoots done with the 5 member Triumph lineup before Jermaine got involved. I don't know if Jermaine was in the group yet when the Body video was shot. Around this this time all of the brothers, except Randy, sang backgrounds on Janet's Don't Stand Another Chance. That was produced by Marlon.
 
kreen said:
All of the songs on the album are great, although you have to sequence Be Not Always at the end because it doesn’t work right in the middle.

Wait and The Hurt in particular are grade-A material. Fans don’t give those songs any attention only because MJ doesn’t sing them. Although he does adlibs on Wait and cowrote The Hurt.
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I got the jacksons to do like a hum/mumble harmony of the chorus of wait for me during a meet & greet at one of their shows last june, its my favourite non-michael jacksons song.

I also wrongly said that I loved that song to marlon instead of jackie, who after a couple seconds said "wait, i sung that!" and we just began laughing lmao
 
DuranDuran said:
I think the Torture video was filmed before Jermaine rejoined the group. There's only 5 in the video, not 6. Especially since there's special effects that would take a lot of time to do. Torture was originally Jackie & Mike. When Jermaine came in, he replaced Jackie's lead vocals. Jermaine also does not have any solo leads or wrote any songs on Victory when Randy has 2, just some adlibs on Wait. There were also photo shoots done with the 5 member Triumph lineup before Jermaine got involved. I don't know if Jermaine was in the group yet when the Body video was shot. Around this this time all of the brothers, except Randy, sang backgrounds on Janet's Don't Stand Another Chance. That was produced by Marlon.
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The album was released in July with Torture filmed in August so Jermaine was already on board. The early photoshoots were done while they were waiting for Motown to agree on him joining the group. Jermaine was absent on some of the early album concept covers
 
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I like The Details video, but he seem to overlook some facts about Victory or the Tour, sure there are some tensions, but Michael didn't have decided to leave the group, in December 84, for Ebony Magazine, he have said that he is still part of The Jacksons, the cover artist was Michael choice, so I don't see how and why he see "tension" because of a cover, that have absolutely no sense.

For the music video, yes Jermaine and Michael were not part of this, but Michael have worked with the crews for some concepts, and according the director, the rest of the brothers were here for not a very long time too:

en.wikipedia.org

Torture (The Jacksons song) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

"After Michael had sketched out ideas for the shoot with the production company and his brothers, Stein and producer John Diaz had a feeling he would skip the actual shoot, so they rented a wax dummy of Michael from Madame Tussaud's museum in Nashville."

Stein recalls the shoot as “an experience that lived up to the song title”, and that sentiment is shared by others involved in the production. It finished over schedule and over budget. By the end the Jacksons themselves had stopped showing up. Stein says it was so stressful that one of his crew members lost control of her bodily functions. “The crew motto used to be ‘Death or victory’,” he says. “I think that was the only time we ever prayed for death.”
 
Salomons said:
- Thriller Tour? sing what? 5 or 6 hits of his? He hadn't enough catalogue to score at that time, even during Bad Tour he performed 2 of The Jacksons songs to fullfil his playlist
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So he could have performed a couple of Jacksons songs on a Thriller tour.

"Shake Your Body", "This Place Hotel", "Things I Do for You", "Lovely One", "Can You Feel It", etc. He wrote all those songs, anyway.

He could have also performed a J5 medley with his backup singers/dancers like he did on all of his solo tours.

MJ's solo hits at the time were "Don't Stop til You Get Enough", "Rock with You", "Off the Wall", "She's Out of My Life", "Girl is Mine", "Billie Jean", "Beat It", "Human Nature", "PYT", and "Thriller"; that's ten hits. And he could have thrown in album cuts like "Baby Be Mine" and "The Lady in My Life"; he also performed "Workin' Day and Night" despite the fact it was never a single ("Things I Do for You" wasn't one, either, and it was still performed)
 
Spaceship said:
implementing that ridiculous ticket system were completely stupid decisions.
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Would someone be kind enough to explain me this “problematic” ticket system already referred to here by at least two people ? I’ve never heard about this. Thanks !
 
laconcombremasque said:
Would someone be kind enough to explain me this “problematic” ticket system already referred to here by at least two people ? I’ve never heard about this. Thanks !
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I don't know the exact background but I know you had to buy a certain amount of tickets and then there was some kind of lottery. So it wasn't guaranteed that you will get a ticket and had to spend a lot of money in the first place. When you didn't win a ticket, the money was refunded.

But I don't really get why they did it that way, maybe someone can explain in more detail 🧐
 
I'm not trusting a damn thing The Detail shills out about MJ. He pretty much acts like a tabloid journalist and has no merit on how he talks about MJ on his channel.
 
It wasn't Pepsi's fault that MJ's hair caught fire, btw. It was Bob Giraldi's fault, and I'm pretty sure it was MJ's idea to have him direct the Pepsi commercials? MJ had already worked with him on the videos for "Beat It" and "Say Say Say".
 
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