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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

need someone smart with too much free time on their hands to go through that wiki some day and update things atp
 
robotchicken14 said:
The problem is the lack of official sources regarding correct recording dates - the books tend to copy what the releases state (Ultimate Collection/Bad 25 etc), but these are often incorrect.

I once tried to edit the Wikipedia entry for Dirty Diana following the MJcast interview with Matt Forger, who said it was written and first worked on in 1984. When I edited the date from 1986 to 1984, I was told that the interview wasn’t sufficient enough evidence.

So what we are left with, for example, is Cheater or Abortion Papers having their official recording dates as 1987 rather than 1983/4.
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The issue with Wikipedia is that it only collects information taken from secondary sources (articles, books, liner notes, etc.) and doesn't allow original research, simply because anyone could add unverified info. That means, if the secondary source is wrong, it is going to be used nevertheless unless a better/new one becomes available. Lots of books out there that focus on MJ's work (such as For the Record or even All the Songs) tend to be outdated already.

The DD case is pretty outrageous though - I believe that an interview with Matt Forger should be a satisfactory source.
 
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robotchicken14 said:
I once tried to edit the Wikipedia entry for Dirty Diana following the MJcast interview with Matt Forger, who said it was written and first worked on in 1984.
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Matt working on DD in 1984 doesn't rule out an earlier date unbeknowst to him.

Type of Work:​
Music
Registration Number / Date:​
PAu000681700 / 1984-11-16
Title:​
Dirty Diana / Michael Jackson.
Description:​
1 sound cassette.
Copyright Claimant:​
Mijac Music
Date of Creation:​
1983
Authorship on Application:​
words & music: Michael Jackson.
Names:​
Jackson, Michael
Mijac Music
 
Fuzball said:
Matt working on DD in 1984 doesn't rule out an earlier date unbeknowst to him.
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Forger states that work began on Dirty Diana immediately following the completion of Centipede for Rebbie in 1984 - the way he words it sounds like it was started from scratch at Westlake while the studio at Havenhurst was being renovated.

So yes there may be an earlier demo recording from 1983, but the 1984 date that I tried to update the Wikipedia with is certainly more accurate than 1986.
 
ToMi said:
The DD case is pretty outrageous though - I believe that an interview with Matt Forger should be a satisfactory source.
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Interestingly, the Wikipedia entry for Liberian Girl correctly states 1983, where the Unauthorised Interview is presumably used as the source. Unless For the Record or All the Songs also state 1983, I also don’t really see why an interview with Forger isn’t satisfactory proof
 
Bill Bottrell:

No, it [Deep in the night] is not "my work". It's one of many that MJ brought to me at Record One to just see what I could do. Usually all I did was a rough mix. Many songs I spent 6 hours on experimenting, mixing.
 
love1sfatal said:
do we have an idea of how long was mj even considering that unreleased concept album..? he said it started before 1980, idk if that would even be on his mind as of recording abortion papers
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Probably up until 1983. He had the songs ready to go by 1980 and was likely going to compile them into an album but with Sony demanding he turn in another album by April 1983, working on Victory and Thriller taking off, he probably became overwhelmed and canned it.
 
Fuzball said:
Matt working on DD in 1984 doesn't rule out an earlier date unbeknowst to him.


Type of Work:​
Music
Registration Number / Date:​
PAu000681700 / 1984-11-16
Title:​
Dirty Diana / Michael Jackson.
Description:​
1 sound cassette.
Copyright Claimant:​
Mijac Music
Date of Creation:​
1983
Authorship on Application:​
words & music: Michael Jackson.
Names:​
Jackson, Michael
Mijac Music
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I don't really care about listening to demos of songs that were already released but this is one of the few exceptions, I'd pay serious money to see how this song sounded like during the Thriller heydays. I can already envision Michael singing the guitar solo being catchy as is lol.
 
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ChanceToDance said:
I don't really care about listening to demos of songs that were already released but this is one of the few exceptions, I'd pay serious money to see how this song sounded like during the Thriller heydays. I can already envision Michael singing the guitar solo being catchy as is lol.
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According to Damien, Michael did sing the guitar part on the 1985 mix.

My notes say: "Quincy had no influence on this [Smooth Criminal 1985] - it's done." Same with Dirty Diana. On Dirty Diana, MJ even sings the guitar solo.
 
Fuzball said:
According to Damien, Michael did sing the guitar part on the 1985 mix.

My notes say: "Quincy had no influence on this [Smooth Criminal 1985] - it's done." Same with Dirty Diana. On Dirty Diana, MJ even sings the guitar solo.
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Ask him about bad girl .crack kills .what you do to me and tomboy
 
Will's remake of Beautiful Girl made me think: it's wild that Michael gave away a post-Invincible demo to be released in The Ultimate Collection, considering how much he hated letting people hear his unfinished stuff… let alone something he was still actively working on and planning to finish.

It's like if they had randomly thrown Rocker on TUC for no reason. Would've made way more sense to give them an older demo instead, from Bad or Dangerous, etc.

 
Saka21 said:
Will's remake of Beautiful Girl made me think: it's wild that Michael gave away a post-Invincible demo to be released in The Ultimate Collection, considering how much he hated letting people hear his unfinished stuff… let alone something he was still actively working on and planning to finish.

It's like if they had randomly thrown Rocker on TUC for no reason. Would've made way more sense to give them an older demo instead, from Bad or Dangerous, etc.

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MJ didn't pick what went on TUC. All he did was sign off on it at the end, but he didn't have anything to do with track selection according to Michael Prince. He was apparently quite annoyed that certain tracks were on there.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
MJ didn't pick what went on TUC. All he did was sign off on it at the end, but he didn't have anything to do with track selection according to Michael Prince. He was apparently quite annoyed that certain tracks were on there.
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He still could've just not signed off if he wanted to keep some demos for another occasion.

By the way, do we have the full list of tracks that were considered for TUC? I remember it was posted here once but it got buried in the old pages.
 
Saka21 said:
He still could've just not signed off if he wanted to keep some demos for another occasion.

By the way, do we have the full list of tracks that were considered for TUC? I remember it was posted here once but it got buried in the old pages.
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I doubt he even read the tracklist considering he didn't realise certain tracks were released until after the fact.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
I doubt he even read the tracklist considering he didn't realise certain tracks were released until after the fact.
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Yeah, I always got the impression that he was so consumed with the trial that he never once checked what they were doing and signed off on it just to get Sony off his back for good. There’s no way he’d approve of that track listing otherwise. Boneheaded movie for sure, but still.
 
Fuzball said:
Chicago 1945 & Escape/Xscape
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Damien also said A Place With No Name and GYWOOM were briefly considered
The 2004 version was briefly considered for a box set called The Ultimate Collection, released by Epic Records on November 16 the same year. But as with the Invincible album three years prior, it was again not included.
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www.damienshields.com

Michael Jackson Meets America in Invincible Album Outtake ‘A Place With No Name’

Below is a chapter from my book Michael Jackson: Songs & Stories From The Vault, revised for this article. The full book is available via Amazon and iBooks. On May 20, 1997, Epic Records, released Blood on the Dance Floor: HIStory in the Mix – a compilation album including five new songs by...
www.damienshields.com www.damienshields.com
https://twitter.com/x/status/1774711024555524290
 
SmoothGangsta said:
They went through everything MJ had when looking for material for TUC.
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Yeah I feel there's virtually no way of knowing the exact amount of songs they considered since they scrambled through the entire vault for that project. There's gotta be a decent number of titles we've never heard of that were considered.

Same goes for any posthumous album, in a way. I'm still surprised "Red Eye" was not only considered but remixed for the "Michael" album.
 
NetflexKing said:
Maybe he was referring the registration date?
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Someone seriously needs to show that snippet to Damien so he can verify if it's the same as the version he heard, he described the song to be a "guitar track" but you can clearly tell there's more to it than that, you can hear more strings and even a percussion beat included. So I'm not sure if his description was just too vague or if there really are other versions more complete than what he heard.
 
ChanceToDance said:
I've been quite interested in hearing this song so whatever, I'll take it. New leak everyone!

If the structure is accurate to the real song then the instrumental seems to repeat itself quite a lot, feels like if you hear the snippet Korgnex posted then you'll practically have heard it all. I am hoping someone will eventually recreate the song using this and the snippet as basis, I feel we already have enough for it to be done accurately.
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lol
 
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