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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

GYWOOM said:
In the case of MJ, it’s not just a matter of someone who worked with him selling a few DATs because they needed money. Allegedly, there’s a deeper and messier side to it. A lot of these so-called “collectors” don’t just do it for the music, their ego plays a huge part.

Some of them manipulate people who actually worked with Michael, gaining their trust to get information or material they can later gatekeep. In situations like the Brad Buxer, MP, or Paul Anka stuff, it’s been alleged that a lot of it came from hackers who got into personal accounts and stole files to sell. Even if people don’t have stuff or would never sell, they’re constantly going after and manipulating anyone who worked with Michael to squeeze any information out from them, while simultaneously paying hackers for the work these people themselves don’t even have.

Once people get their hands on that kind of material, it becomes an endless cycle. They always want more, they start editing the files, adding invisible watermarks, and selling lower-quality versions just so they can keep the “master” and trace future leaks. I’m not sure exactly but various multitracks and song leaks have these watermarks on them. We don’t even have the original untouched stuff for a lot of things. What’s funny is they’ll buy something, call it garbage, then still hoard it and flip it to fund the next “garbage” song that only they’ll have.

Meanwhile, they’re all keeping tabs on and watching everyone. Alt accounts, word-of-mouth gossip, and even going after deals just to stop others from getting stuff and sharing it, all to feel important and in control.

Bottom line: if you end up with something you shouldn’t have, it’s only a matter of time before it leaks.
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Sorry Beano I posted in the wrong forum 😔
 
GYWOOM said:
In the case of MJ, it’s not just a matter of someone who worked with him selling a few DATs because they needed money. Allegedly, there’s a deeper and messier side to it. A lot of these so-called “collectors” don’t just do it for the music, their ego plays a huge part.

Some of them manipulate people who actually worked with Michael, gaining their trust to get information or material they can later gatekeep. In situations like the Brad Buxer, MP, or Paul Anka stuff, it’s been alleged that a lot of it came from hackers who got into personal accounts and stole files to sell. Even if people don’t have stuff or would never sell, they’re constantly going after and manipulating anyone who worked with Michael to squeeze any information out from them, while simultaneously paying hackers for the work these people themselves don’t even have.

Once people get their hands on that kind of material, it becomes an endless cycle. They always want more, they start editing the files, adding invisible watermarks, and selling lower-quality versions just so they can keep the “master” and trace future leaks. I’m not sure exactly but various multitracks and song leaks have these watermarks on them. We don’t even have the original untouched stuff for a lot of things. What’s funny is they’ll buy something, call it garbage, then still hoard it and flip it to fund the next “garbage” song that only they’ll have.

Meanwhile, they’re all keeping tabs on and watching everyone. Alt accounts, word-of-mouth gossip, and even going after deals just to stop others from getting stuff and sharing it, all to feel important and in control.

Bottom line: if you end up with something you shouldn’t have, it’s only a matter of time before it leaks.
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Legit I just feel like collectors should just leak the high quality versions of a song if the full thing is already out there but the sound is compressed, like GYWOOM and Streetwalker ‘87
 
I’m a bit out of the loop; has Motif been running snippets he has of unreleased songs through Suno and uploading the outcomes on YouTube?
 
I think people need to realise unless the person directly worked with MJ, you are dealing with someone that wants nothing but to profit with MJ’s material, whether that’s with attention, money or more tracks.
 
GYWOOM said:
In the case of MJ, it’s not just a matter of someone who worked with him selling a few DATs because they needed money. Allegedly, there’s a deeper and messier side to it. A lot of these so-called “collectors” don’t just do it for the music, their ego plays a huge part.

Some of them manipulate people who actually worked with Michael, gaining their trust to get information or material they can later gatekeep. In situations like the Brad Buxer, MP, or Paul Anka stuff, it’s been alleged that a lot of it came from hackers who got into personal accounts and stole files to sell. Even if people don’t have stuff or would never sell, they’re constantly going after and manipulating anyone who worked with Michael to squeeze any information out from them, while simultaneously paying hackers for the work these people themselves don’t even have.

Once people get their hands on that kind of material, it becomes an endless cycle. They always want more, they start editing the files, adding invisible watermarks, and selling lower-quality versions just so they can keep the “master” and trace future leaks. I’m not sure exactly but various multitracks and song leaks have these watermarks on them. We don’t even have the original untouched stuff for a lot of things. What’s funny is they’ll buy something, call it garbage, then still hoard it and flip it to fund the next “garbage” song that only they’ll have.

Meanwhile, they’re all keeping tabs on and watching everyone. Alt accounts, word-of-mouth gossip, and even going after deals just to stop others from getting stuff and sharing it, all to feel important and in control.

Bottom line: if you end up with something you shouldn’t have, it’s only a matter of time before it leaks.
Click to expand...
May I drop in the reason why collectors have become like this?

It's because doors keep closing because of the underhanded actions of leakers. Secretly recording collectors whose trust they've earned, buying stuff off them and mass-selling them for insanely cheap prices where they'll eventually leak, sending followers after collectors to get stuff for them, etc. It's what I've seen in communities like this and a certain other community I'm in.

Back in the day, these communities were still secretive, but they were more-or-less built on trust. But things changed as more snake-like and untrustworthy people got their hands on what they've gained. Armed with a belief that everyone should have these, not knowing - or caring - about the consequences, they began employing many underhanded tactics to distribute the tracks/packs more widely. The result is: the leakers didn't get into trouble because the files have been distributed en masse, but the collectors do with their sources, or more accurately, the sources get in trouble with the record company.

It's why leaks have dried up and things have gone radio-silent outside a few bursts of activity. I don't condone some of the more extreme cases of gatekeeping the community does (especially not Korg's tendency to hide useless info like track times and when they were recorded/mixed), but their reluctance to share is relatively understandable and can be explained by cases like these. That's not to say some of them weren't always filled with their own ego, but others I've met have had the same testimony.

To put it bluntly: collectors are now playing with fire, and they don't want to get burnt in the process.
 
Collectors were the same 10 or even 20 years ago in the good old MJNO days ;) don't worry.. it has just become easier to fake stuff

The amount of leaks the past months/years is actually incredible. Lean back, and relisten to the late leaks. Just a suggestion

Ps: I have the feeling there is some more coming the upcoming 12 months. There is never only one trading circle, resulting in potential leaks.
;)
 
Gluepix said:
The verses on this are really good (assuming they’re based on the real deal); I can definitely see how Rocker resembles Queen’s We Will Rock You in composition now:

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The verses are the only part I think resemble WWRY tbh. I never understood the comparison until I heard that bit. Really weird song but catchy
 
SeriousFX said:
May I drop in the reason why collectors have become like this?

It's because doors keep closing because of the underhanded actions of leakers. Secretly recording collectors whose trust they've earned, buying stuff off them and mass-selling them for insanely cheap prices where they'll eventually leak, sending followers after collectors to get stuff for them, etc. It's what I've seen in communities like this and a certain other community I'm in.

Back in the day, these communities were still secretive, but they were more-or-less built on trust. But things changed as more snake-like and untrustworthy people got their hands on what they've gained. Armed with a belief that everyone should have these, not knowing - or caring - about the consequences, they began employing many underhanded tactics to distribute the tracks/packs more widely. The result is: the leakers didn't get into trouble because the files have been distributed en masse, but the collectors do with their sources, or more accurately, the sources get in trouble with the record company.

It's why leaks have dried up and things have gone radio-silent outside a few bursts of activity. I don't condone some of the more extreme cases of gatekeeping the community does (especially not Korg's tendency to hide useless info like track times and when they were recorded/mixed), but their reluctance to share is relatively understandable and can be explained by cases like these. That's not to say some of them weren't always filled with their own ego, but others I've met have had the same testimony.

To put it bluntly: collectors are now playing with fire, and they don't want to get burnt in the process.
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I used to collect MJ stuff back in the day but about 2023 onward or so I stopped messing with this community all together. I don't know why it is MJ specifically but this community has such a weird relationship with unreleased material compared to the other artists' spaces. I've never seen an artist with so many fake leaks and so much weird bad blood and back stabbing bts. Not to mention (in my opinion) all of the best stuff has already been leaked/released and the stuff that is available to be bought bought, traded, etc is not really worth a lot of money. MJ is basically the only artist in my favorites that I don't bother with anymore in terms of collecting. I do understand people who paid alot of money for songs not wanting to leak things like Korg for example because that would be a financial loss. Me personally I would do GBs (this is common for just about every artist aside from MJ) for new material, it is clear the estate does not care about unreleased songs that much and that would be the only way to hear new stuff aside from the petty Discord drama that results in a brand new 6 second MQ snippet leaking woopee!!
 
Clay7 said:
I used to collect MJ stuff back in the day but about 2023 onward or so I stopped messing with this community all together. I don't know why it is MJ specifically but this community has such a weird relationship with unreleased material compared to the other artists' spaces. I've never seen an artist with so many fake leaks and so much weird bad blood and back stabbing bts. Not to mention (in my opinion) all of the best stuff has already been leaked/released and the stuff that is available to be bought bought, traded, etc is not really worth a lot of money. MJ is basically the only artist in my favorites that I don't bother with anymore in terms of collecting. I do understand people who paid alot of money for songs not wanting to leak things like Korg for example because that would be a financial loss. Me personally I would do GBs (this is common for just about every artist aside from MJ) for new material, it is clear the estate does not care about unreleased songs that much and that would be the only way to hear new stuff aside from the petty Discord drama that results in a brand new 6 second MQ snippet leaking woopee!!
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Agreed; the MJ collector community is toxic to the point that I just don’t want to have anything to do with it anymore, lol.
 
I agree with everything that’s been said.
The trading scene has changed drastically over the past ten years, and honestly, I don’t think there’s another fan community as toxic as the MJ fandom. What really frustrates me is how people act like you’re the worst person alive just because you don’t immediately share your rare material. They don’t seem to realize that sometimes you’re dealing with people who trust you, or that you’ve paid a lot of money for those items.

There are also things that were never meant to leak in the first place — for good reasons — like the “Munich mic feed.” But most of the time, it’s just that people can’t keep secrets for more than a week.

If it were up to me, I’d prefer that we all just share what we have — no more trades, no more selling, none of that. I’ve seen other fan communities that work like that, where nothing is held back from others, and it’s just a much healthier environment overall.
 
Because people don't know how to trade in silence anymore. Back then, you would trade and go about your day but now? People trade then upload a crappy audio snippet so people can beg because they're not loved at home and this is the most attention they get.
 
BlackAnon said:
Because people don't know how to trade in silence anymore. Back then, you would trade and go about your day but now? People trade then upload a crappy audio snippet so people can beg because they're not loved at home and this is the most attention they get.
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I love taking any chance I can to shit on south america, so I wanna say that this is still the case with spanish speaking singers/bands lol
It's not as pretty as it sounds. You essentially are forced to become a collector if you wanna get a random DVD from 2008.
I love how in the MJ community I can just go to forums and casually find an archive of literally everything that's ever leaked.
 
BlackAnon said:
Because people don't know how to trade in silence anymore. Back then, you would trade and go about your day but now? People trade then upload a crappy audio snippet so people can beg because they're not loved at home and this is the most attention they get.
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@Korgnex they’re calling you out, dawg.
 
Gluepix said:
@Korgnex they’re calling you out, dawg.
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LOL no call outs, just stating facts.

I said it before somewhere in this thread but when a few of us, and by a few, I mean no more than 5, were gifted copies of the Victory tour, we kept it to ourselves and barely spoke to each other about it until one of us felt the need to post a snippet to brag about it. He eventually leaked the entire show but that would've still been sitting in our hard drives had he not wanted the attention.
 
All of this talk “collecting back in the day used to be better” “I used to collect back then and it was better” y’all are so pathetic 😭😭😭😭😭

Nothing has CHANGED guys it’s just as things leak these losers want more rares so they get them and then those leak so they get more until there’s nothing that great left cause all the good stuff already leaked so all of you saying “omg I miss the days when I had stuff that wasn’t leaked and it was good” is just 😭😭😭😭😭

You were never supposed to have this shit and that’s why it leaked! So those pretending to think they’re above everyone else cause they themselves didn’t leak it but were directly involved with obtaining the material is just as guilty imo.
 
GYWOOM said:
All of this talk “collecting back in the day used to be better” “I used to collect back then and it was better” y’all are so pathetic 😭😭😭😭😭

Nothing has CHANGED guys it’s just as things leak these losers want more rares so they get them and then those leak so they get more until there’s nothing that great left cause all the good stuff already leaked so all of you saying “omg I miss the days when I had stuff that wasn’t leaked and it was good” is just 😭😭😭😭😭
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I don't think anyone is saying that.

Many of us have files in our possession but if anyone decides to leak it, just do it and stop the teasing with LQ snippets. Upload the file and go about your day.
 
GYWOOM said:
All of this talk “collecting back in the day used to be better” “I used to collect back then and it was better” y’all are so pathetic 😭😭😭😭😭

Nothing has CHANGED guys it’s just as things leak these losers want more rares so they get them and then those leak so they get more until there’s nothing that great left cause all the good stuff already leaked so all of you saying “omg I miss the days when I had stuff that wasn’t leaked and it was good” is just 😭😭😭😭😭
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Keep in mind that I simply got info about how it was from collectors I've talked to. And given how insanely cocky leakers and their advocates act sometimes, it's safe to say that no matter how insufferable certain collectors may be...leakers have the potential to be just as - if not more - childish than the worst of the collector's circuit.
 
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