I Am a Fan, But... (What Makes You Heretic Among Other Fans?)

I don’t know if this makes me a heretic, but… listen , I love Sugarfoot. I think he’s one of the greatest drummers ever, but for some reason I prefer Ricky Lawson as MJ’s drummer and the way he played on the Bad and Dangerous tours.
 
I dont like I cant help it, Keep the faith, Money and One more chance.
 
I must admit Michael was quite unimaginative with his setlists. Once, he found the perfect formula in his mind, he copied and pasted it from one tour to the next.

Basically it's the same with his dance moves, ad-libs and albums, they all follow the same 'formula' (yes even History). And when he sang other peope's songs he almost copied their guide vocals exactly

I guess when Michael thought something was 'Bible' he knew it 'worked' and there was no need in changing it or adding up on it. Which is in a way a shame (little surprises) but might also gave him some rest and routine like he was used to from the Jackson years..?
 
Agree with that. It's a shame every night was exactly the same set list as the previous night. Would have been great to tailor it to play the songs that were more popular in each country. And to include more unusual songs, and stuff from earlier in his career.
It would have been nice if he did a surprise one off performances of songs like Liberian Girl, Who Is it, Lady In My Life. It's not like these songs needed choreography that he needed to rehearse and perfect before he could perform them live.

But the biggest issue wasn't even that he performed pretty much the same songs during each tour, but rather he performed them the same exact way on each tour. For example, Beat It was always performed with the cherry picker. Wanna Be Starting Something always had a pause during the middle of the song. She's Out Of My Life always had a fan come up on stage. There was no difference in watching them songs from one tour to the next and that is what frustrates me the most.
 
Basically it's the same with his dance moves, ad-libs and albums, they all follow the same 'formula' (yes even History). And when he sang other peope's songs he almost copied their guide vocals exactly

I guess when Michael thought something was 'Bible' he knew it 'worked' and there was no need in changing it or adding up on it. Which is in a way a shame (little surprises) but might also gave him some rest and routine like he was used to from the Jackson years..?
I suspect MJ didn't want to deviate from a proven formula because he was risk averse to the possibility of receiving negative feedback from such changes.
Its a shame he didn't take those chances, but I suspect it was an enormous challenge for someone with the international fanbase he had to keep everyone happy.
 
It would have been nice if he did a surprise one off performances of songs like Liberian Girl, Who Is it, Lady In My Life. It's not like these songs needed choreography that he needed to rehearse and perfect before he could perform them live.

But the biggest issue wasn't even that he performed pretty much the same songs during each tour, but rather he performed them the same exact way on each tour. For example, Beat It was always performed with the cherry picker. Wanna Be Starting Something always had a pause during the middle of the song. She's Out Of My Life always had a fan come up on stage. There was no difference in watching them songs from one tour to the next and that is what frustrates me the most.
I agree and can relate to your frustration, but I think there must have been some changes accounted for even with such rigid formulas. I say this because I love the 1995 MTV performance of Dangerous so much that I struggle to watch other renditions of this performance, even though they all look very similar to the untrained eye.
 
I agree and can relate to your frustration, but I think there must have been some changes accounted for even with such rigid formulas. I say this because I love the 1995 MTV performance of Dangerous so much that I struggle to watch other renditions of this performance, even though they all look very similar to the untrained eye.
Dangerous Live was amazing as Michael changed it constantly. The version of Dangerous live on the Dangerous Tour was different from the one on the History Tour, and he was going to change it again for This Is It.
 
Dangerous Live was amazing as Michael changed it constantly. The version of Dangerous live on the Dangerous Tour was different from the one on the History Tour, and he was going to change it again for This Is It.
That's a good point about TII, we never got to see any of those performances live, so we are missing a chunk of performances which may have included some of the variety we feel is lacking.
 
Moonwalker = a mish-mash of videos linked together with duct tape. A pure ego trip for Michael.
A *whimsical* ego trip. It’s clearly for kids and isn’t meant to be taken too seriously. I rewatched it the other day and it’s definitely the fever dream of a 12 yr old boy 😂. I mean, he turns into a car and a spaceship. So ridiculous!! But it still makes me smile.

I think MJ using guns in Smooth Criminal was a funny, odd, but ultimately bad choice to make. It kinda serves no purpose and flys in the face of his non-violent ethos. Everything else is far more theatrical.

It's not huge or anything. But I would be fine if he never had done it.

Also, he peaked in 1993 or so. But his 1998-2001 output was still better than most of what he did between Thriller and Bad.

My hot take? Michael was not nonviolent or a pacifist. In fact I think he is far more traditionally masculine than most people, including his fans, give him credit for. He literally runs in the streets with cops and military personnel, visited the army to thank them after 9/11, and of course morphed into a black Panther before mimicking a riot, a clear nod to the real black panthers and their willingness to use violence to protect their own. I see nothing out of character about him using a gun.
 
I see nothing out of character about him using a gun.
I don't see a connection between using a gun in short films or videogames or whatever and your opinion about people using weapons in real life.

For example: I would never hurt someone and never did so far in my life. I even feel bad when I kill a fly (always try to avoid it). But I have been to a shooting range and I love to play video games where you have to use guns 🤷.

On topic: Thriller might be my least favourite Michael song...well, let's say it's amongst the 10 least favourite 💁.
 
I think MJ using guns in Smooth Criminal was a funny, odd, but ultimately bad choice to make. It kinda serves no purpose and flys in the face of his non-violent ethos. Everything else is far more theatrical.

It's not huge or anything. But I would be fine if he never had done it.

Also, he peaked in 1993 or so. But his 1998-2001 output was still better than most of what he did between Thriller and Bad.
It's crazy revisiting this.

I still mostly agree with my first opinion and do not agree with my second opinion at all
 
Really? I’m obsessed with the braid, makes me wanna melt 🫠🫠🫠
Idk what’s considered the ‘normal’ but I feel like it would be considered less common for my preference being during the 2000s. I consider J5, Off the Wall, Bad, Thriller, Dangerous, and HIStory to be more of his ‘oh my gosh he’s so cutesy.’ But once we get to Invincible he be like, ‘daaaaaaaang he’s fine.’ And ik he wasn’t in the best shape during This Is It, but boy be lookin good then too ngl, but more like cutesy again.
 
I don't see a connection between using a gun in short films or videogames or whatever and your opinion about people using weapons in real life.

For example: I would never hurt someone and never did so far in my life. I even feel bad when I kill a fly (always try to avoid it). But I have been to a shooting range and I love to play video games where you have to use guns 🤷.

On topic: Thriller might be my least favourite Michael song...well, let's say it's amongst the 10 least favourite 💁.
I find this response baffling. My point is that MJ clearly did not see anything wrong with the legitimate use of a gun for protection based on the image he projected. And I didn’t even mention the History Teaser where he presents as the general of an army. 🤷🏾‍♀️ Incidentally I see no contradiction in being a peaceful person who will condone the use force if necessary. I think MJ fans have a tendency to look only at the parts of his work that fit their narrative. MJ clearly abhorred the *misuse* of violence, but he strikes me as a realist who understood that sometimes violence is necessary to protect the greater good.
 
I find this response baffling. My point is that MJ clearly did not see anything wrong with the legitimate use of a gun for protection based on the image he projected. And I didn’t even mention the History Teaser where he presents as the general of an army. 🤷🏾‍♀️ Incidentally I see no contradiction in being a peaceful person who will condone the use force if necessary. I think MJ fans have a tendency to look only at the parts of his work that fit their narrative. MJ clearly abhorred the *misuse* of violence, but he strikes me as a realist who understood that sometimes violence is necessary to protect the greater good.
Well, if it's only for protection - I mean really a life or death-question, then I think nobody is against using weapons.

And the military thing was mainly because he just liked the style and was fascinated by how it looks like when hundreds of soldiers make the same movement at once. Also showing power and - especially for HIStory - that nothing amd nobody can bring him down. At least that's what the message imo was.
 
Well, if it's only for protection - I mean really a life or death-question, then I think nobody is against using weapons.

And the military thing was mainly because he just liked the style and was fascinated by how it looks like when hundreds of soldiers make the same movement at once. Also showing power and - especially for HIStory - that nothing amd nobody can bring him down. At least that's what the message imo was.
Yes, and the very fact that he liked the aesthetics of the military and police tells us something about his values, and absolute pacifism is clearly not one of his values. He clearly thought men should be protectors and project strength, and I don’t think this contradicts the fact that he was also a gentle and kind person. He was three dimensional, not a caricature.
 
Really? I’m obsessed with the braid, makes me wanna melt 🫠🫠🫠
Idk what’s considered the ‘normal’ but I feel like it would be considered less common for my preference being during the 2000s. I consider J5, Off the Wall, Bad, Thriller, Dangerous, and HIStory to be more of his ‘oh my gosh he’s so cutesy.’ But once we get to Invincible he be like, ‘daaaaaaaang he’s fine.’ And ik he wasn’t in the best shape during This Is It, but boy be lookin good then too ngl, but more like cutesy again.
I don’t think he was cute during History, I think that’s the period where he went from cute to handsome and more mature and self-assured. I’m not a fan of early invincible era cause it’s so clear he’s not doing well mentally and physically. He rarely smiles and that’s a big red flag. But post-trial late 40s pre-TII Michael is just so so lovely… aged like fine wine. I think besides BOTDF, MJ at JB’s funeral is pure perfection.
 
Yes, and the very fact that he liked the aesthetics of the military and police tells us something about his values, and absolute pacifism is clearly not one of his values. He clearly thought men should be protectors and project strength, and I don’t think this contradicts the fact that he was also a gentle and kind person. He was three dimensional, not a caricature.
I also think it looks cool, although I am very pacifistic and I don't think men should be protectors etc. So I don't think one can make assumptions because of certain aesthetics he liked, that's all I am saying 🤷. And of course he was not holy, I know he was a human being with flaws, like everyone of us...I think most of the fans are aware of that. But too much off topic 😅

Oh, and BOTDF Michael is sexier than Bad era Michael. I’m not a fan of the rings and bracelets or even the French braid, but his body is banging. He’s never looked more strong, fit, and healthy.
I love BOTDF 🫠. I think he was sexier because he was more self secure during that time.
 
Meeeeh, I would say performance-wise the Bad-Tour was the best...and he was very productive during that time. So not really overrated to me 🙂
I just mean that a lot of people mainly focus on that part of his career when it comes to looks, but Bad is a great album. I just feel like his other eras deserve more recognition
 
I think Shake Your Body Down is one of the most important songs in the MJ canon. And honestly perhaps the greatest song ever maybe. At least in the disco circuit. Superior to everything on Off The Wall for sure.
 
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