9/11 & Cry

[zinniabooklover]

I think in the wake of the horrendous tragedy that was 9/11, it would have looked like a PR spin from a major artist like Mike releasing a single from his new album to coincide with the terrible event. Would have seemed insensitive and insincere, which Michael was most certainly not

He did the right thing with WMGIG, the single just need a better roll out

I agree. Would have looked naff and horrendously insensitive. Some things just don't need input from the world of pop. There is a time and a place for that - perhaps in the wake of a natural disaster. This was different.

There is only 1 song suited for releasing after such a devastating event and that is “we shall overcome” preferably sung by nightingale joan baez

Tbh, f&m, I wouldn't even want this. Any reaction from the world of pop would have been wrong, imo. Not saying artists can't respond to world events later on. 'Flying' by Living Colour is a brilliant song about 9/11. Bleak but brilliant.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

And the video, also.

The video was designed to be that way. MJ didn't wanna be in it. And I like those humanitarian ones without him. Even if they're quite boring.

And I hope the estate upscales "Cry" to HD first, because I hate each and every one of you

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

I personally don’t care for it. I don’t think it’s terrible by any means, but there’s far better in MJ’s discography and in the vault. It’s a retread of a theme Jackson has done again and again, but this time there’s no nuance. It doesn’t bring anything new to the table nor is it particularly interesting, and the vocal and lyrics are extremely subpar. R. Kelly’s involvement certainly doesn’t help, but even if he didn’t contribute, it still should have been a song left on the cutting room floor.

It's inferior to the others, but the others so happen to be very good. If it was an Usher song, people would probably be gushing saying MJ "would've killed it!"

When he mostly would've just, pulled up outside and keyed its car.

 

[zinniabooklover]

The video was designed to be that way. MJ didn't wanna be in it.

Mm, I know.

And I like those humanitarian ones without him.

Same. It's a good call, him not being in them.

Even if they're quite boring.

Oh, you ruined it.

Actually, I'm neutral about MITM video and never watch but I do genuinely love the video for Cry. Well, someone has to, lol.

And I hope the estate upscales "Cry" to HD first, because I hate each and every one of you

 

[Thatkliqkid]

that's totally not true. Cry is better than man in the mirror! The song is brilliant

Rubbish.
It's a weak imitation from the key change to the "change the world" spoken at the end.
It's a "oh we're doing a Michael Jackson album? Better have a social conscious track on it."

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

I think even if it were released as a 9/11 charity single, it would've still performed poorly. It's just a bad song with a bad vocal. "What More Can I Give" would've been a much better choice.

Bad vocal as in bad vocal performance? If so what makes you say that?

 

[Blues_Away2023]

Bad vocal as in bad vocal performance? If so what makes you say that?

I've seen quite a few remarks that his vocals on Invincible as a whole just weren't up to his usual high standards. Obviously there's some highlights on the album that showcase his voice like break of dawn etc.

I heard someone on here say that whatever happens was one of Michael's worst ever vocals and now Cry too.

I honestly believe his nose played a big part on what we hear on Invincible. He had just one too many nose jobs at this point where his vocals sounded nasally.

 

[Richard76]

Rubbish.
It's a weak imitation from the key change to the "change the world" spoken at the end.
It's a "oh we're doing a Michael Jackson album? Better have a social conscious track on it."

Rubbish? Say one more bad word about MJ song, and I will ruin your life

 

[Richard76]

Mm, I know.


Same. It's a good call, him not being in them.


Oh, you ruined it.

Actually, I'm neutral about MITM video and never watch but I do genuinely love the video for Cry. Well, someone has to, lol.

Cry song is one of the best songs, Michael have ever created, but Cry video is rubbish... and Michael knew that. When Sony announced that they will shoot video for Cry for only 2 million dollars, Michael was pissed of and he instantly refuses to take part in the shooting... I guess Michael was really devastated, when Sony literally ruined one more of his great videos...

 

[Hollywood_Tonight]

I've seen quite a few remarks that his vocals on Invincible as a whole just weren't up to his usual high standards. Obviously there's some highlights on the album that showcase his voice like break of dawn etc.

I heard someone on here say that whatever happens was one of Michael's worst ever vocals and now Cry too.

I honestly believe his nose played a big part on what we hear on Invincible. He had just one too many nose jobs at this point where his vocals sounded nasally.

I completely agree with you. Supposedly he switched plastic surgeons around 1999, and some point after that had a botched procedure. This could’ve definitely damaged his ability to sing. But there’s more factors involved here. His drug addiction was pretty bad at the time, and he often did not attend studio sessions. I remember reading that Bruce Swedien left the project early due to Michael not showing up for recording sessions. That would explain why so many of the mixes on the album just aren’t very good.

 

[Blues_Away2023]

I completely agree with you. Supposedly he switched plastic surgeons around 1999, and some point after that had a botched procedure. This could’ve definitely damaged his ability to sing. But there’s more factors involved here. His drug addiction was pretty bad at the time, and he often did not attend studio sessions. I remember reading that Bruce Swedien left the project early due to Michael not showing up for recording sessions. That would explain why so many of the mixes on the album just aren’t very good.

Around the time he was with Uri Geller and was on crutches , it looked awful there to the point where I'm confident it had an impact on his singing around this time.

It was in much better shape a few years by the time TII came around.

 

[Richard76]

I completely agree with you. Supposedly he switched plastic surgeons around 1999, and some point after that had a botched procedure. This could’ve definitely damaged his ability to sing

damaged his ability to sing? Omg, that's total bullshit... During Invincible sessions he did so many vocally great songs, which impress people around the world even nowadays... Butterflies, Whatever Happens, What More Can I Give, Speechless, We Have Had Enough, Blue Gangsta, Place With No Name. Vocals of these song are the most difficult, MJ have ever recorded. Only Earth Song and Stranger In Moscow Smile have more impressing vocals... Moreover during Invincible performances he still could take the highest notest!

That's why it's just a speculation, that MJ lost his ability to sing

 

[Thatkliqkid]

Rubbish? Say one more bad word about MJ song, and I will ruin your life

Don't be ridiculous. I can have an opinion about an MJ song. Grow up.

 

[Hollywood_Tonight]

damaged his ability to sing? Omg, that's total bullshit... During Invincible sessions he did so many vocally great songs, which impress people around the world even nowadays... Butterflies, Whatever Happens, What More Can I Give, Speechless, We Have Had Enough, Blue Gangsta, Place With No Name. Vocals of these song are the most difficult, MJ have ever recorded. Only Earth Song and Stranger In Moscow Smile have more impressing vocals... Moreover during Invincible performances he still could take the highest notest!

That's why it's just a speculation, that MJ lost his ability to sing

So, you’ve listed a bunch of random songs from different years. I said post-1999 is where the vocals on Invincible suffer the most. You will never convince me that songs like Heaven Can Wait, Whatever Happens, Cry, YAML have good vocals- his voice doesn’t even sound healthy on Heaven Can Wait. They all have a very labored, nasal vocal. We’re just speculating on why that is the case.

 

[Richard76]

Don't be ridiculous. I can have an opinion about an MJ song. Grow up.

Okay. As you wish) Embrace your destiny, human

 

[Richard76]

So, you’ve listed a bunch of random songs from different years. I said post-1999 is where the vocals on Invincible suffer the most. You will never convince me that songs like Heaven Can Wait, Whatever Happens, Cry, YAML have good vocals- his voice doesn’t even sound healthy on Heaven Can Wait. They all have a very labored, nasal vocal. We’re just speculating on why that is the case.

I don't need to convince you) I just stated a fact) it's your choice: to swallow that fact or keep crying about fictional problems

 

[Blues_Away2023]

I don't need to convince you) I just stayed a fact) it's you choice: to swallow that fact or keep crying about fictional problems

It's not fact Richard, just your opinion like everyone else has.

 

[Hollywood_Tonight]

I don't need to convince you) I just stated a fact) it's your choice: to swallow that fact or keep crying about fictional problems

The fact is is that Invincible is by far MJ’s most critically derided album and many fans make up conspiracies about how Sony tried so desperately to pay people off to write bad reviews, when, in fact, there’s no evidence to support this claim. Even if the Sony drama never happened, I still don’t see this album doing well. It’s just not a good album by any means, and to say it is just as good is insulting to MJ’s previous work.

 

[Blues_Away2023]

The fact is is that Invincible is by far MJ’s most critically derided album and many fans make up conspiracies about how Sony tried so desperately to pay people off to write bad reviews, when, in fact, there’s no evidence to support this claim. Even if the Sony drama never happened, I still don’t see this album doing well. It’s just not a good album by any means, and to say it is just as good is insulting to MJ’s previous work.

Please bear in mind that Richard is of the opinion that Invincible is the greatest album ever created and that Michael's work in the 1980's was cannon fodder - he was just another black artist.

 

[Hollywood_Tonight]

Please bear in mind that Richard is of the opinion that Invincible is the greatest album ever created and that Michael's work in the 1980's was cannon fodder - he was just another black artist.

His posts have made me conclude that some MJ fans are either just tone deaf or full of delusions.

 

[Sensual visionary]

Cry is a song for picking oneself up from low spirits and isolated grief, to join hands in society and create stronger bonds… some of which happened spontaneously after 9/11 of 2001.

To me it’s the best message of the era’s songs for healing in times of distress, along with The Lost Children. The messages of union and bonding is just what is needed when universal tragedies occur. Refocusing on togetherness rather than fear and division. Sure, he probably had other songs in his vault and heart.
There was little possibility for a label-locked MJ to release things on his own terms then, and corporations don’t see artists uniting forces across labels as a good thing for them.

We’ve Had Enough (Stop the war) should have been on the album and/or released as a single, obviously. It might have weakened the narrative for the Afghanistan and Iraq wars which happened as people’s horror turned to hate.

 

[Richard76]

The fact is is that Invincible is by far MJ’s most critically derided album and many fans make up conspiracies about how Sony tried so desperately to pay people off to write bad reviews, when, in fact, there’s no evidence to support this claim. Even if the Sony drama never happened, I still don’t see this album doing well. It’s just not a good album by any means, and to say it is just as good is insulting to MJ’s previous work.

Insulting to MJ's previous work is to abuse Invincible album. Fans have to assemble together and fight for this album. Because this album was part of Michael's greatest legacy and we have to keep it safe. That's the main responsibility of every true MJ fan

 

[Thatkliqkid]

Okay. As you wish) Embrace your destiny, human

Seriously, get a life dude. It's not that important

https://imgur.com/a/EMKNbvc

 

[Hot_Street]

I completely agree with you. Supposedly he switched plastic surgeons around 1999, and some point after that had a botched procedure. This could’ve definitely damaged his ability to sing.

I don't hear any damage. I'd go as far to say Break of Dawn would fit on Off the Wall.

 

[Blues_Away2023]

I don't hear any damage. I'd go as far to say Break of Dawn would fit on Off the Wall.

No chance , the vocals on OTW album are youthful. You can notice a difference.

The only thing they have in common is that MJ uses his r&b voice on break of dawn (which I love btw)

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

This could’ve definitely damaged his ability to sing.

He did sound different but I can't but I can't tell if it's "bad". It literally sounds like more HIStory/BOTDF vocals, and also doesn't sound nearly as illegible, or as obviously sick with laryngitis as the HIStory tour. People keep insisting it's damaged though, I remember y'all saying his voice would literally crack on GYWOOM. In 2001, again his live voice wasn't ideal, but it still sounded better than 96-97. Studio conditions are different though.

Sony tried so desperately to pay people off to write bad reviews

They didn't need to do that. Critics did that for free. Invincible received "mixed" reception. Everyone picks different favorites and least favorites. Which basically means every song has been ranked "the best" and "the worst", which means, like always, we're going in circles. And if people don't like the album much they probably shouldn't take time out to talk about it more. Especially with the wall of opposition involved.

 

[filmandmusic]

I personally like his voice at all times but I will not deny missing his youthful spark.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

I personally like his voice at all times but I will not deny missing his youthful spark.

That's a huge thing pretty much. I personally have a hard time reconciling older and younger MJ. At least in this way.

 

[Hollywood_Tonight]

People keep insisting it's damaged though, I remember y'all saying his voice would literally crack on GYWOOM. In 2001, again his live voice wasn't ideal, but it still sounded better.

His voice actually did crack when he recorded “Heaven Can Wait”. I think what’s off-putting the most to my ear is the extremely nasal quality of his voice, but I also think his vocal takes on many of these songs aren’t that good either. For example, “Heaven Can Wait”- the second verse he sings the lyrics in a very aggressive way, almost like a yell. It’s very forced and labored. To me, it sounds like he is trying too hard to record a good vocal, and as a result he records with a very forced, stressed voice. I actually much prefer the writer’s demo to the real song simply because the session singer doesn’t sing the song so aggressively.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

His voice actually did crack when he recorded “Heaven Can Wait”. I think what’s off-putting the most to my ear is the extremely nasal quality of his voice, but I also think his vocal takes on many of these songs aren’t that good either. For example, “Heaven Can Wait”- the second verse he sings the lyrics in a very aggressive way, almost like a yell. It’s very forced and labored. To me, it sounds like he is trying too hard to record a good vocal, and as a result he records with a very forced, stressed voice. I actually much prefer the writer’s demo to the real song simply because the session singer doesn’t sing the song so aggressively.

Well, it's fair not to like the song. The groove is my favorite part, his voice is, just a part of it. It's not the standout feature though, which is it's own discussion. People have played around with meming his vocals and that's something funny.