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Albums Dangerous vs Rhythm Nation 1814

Re: neo-soul / go-go

DuranDuran said:
Neo-soul is like Butterflies & Heaven Can Wait
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So you mean a ballad?

DuranDuran said:
It's mostly a kinda of mid-tempo and slow jam kind of R&B
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So what's wrong with calling it R&B? Being from a particular country or state doesn't warrant the invention of a new term. It just seems like heavy-handed over-categorization.

I put some of this down to the terrible state of the American music industry. Seems everybody is obsessed with participation awards, that they keep making up new charts so that everybody can be number 1 in one of them.

Edit: I just looked up Billboard and it's worse than I thought. There are 57 different album charts. Fifty seven! And then for singles, it gets even worse. There are:

8 All-genre charts
18 R&B/Hip-Hop charts
3 Adult/Pop
4 Country
12 Rock
5 Dance/Electronic
8 Latin
13 Christian
1 Jazz
4 Holiday
3 Ringtones
3 Spotify charts.

I've lost count, but is that 82 different singles charts? Further to this they have Canadian and other international charts... it's really confusing and pathetic. In other countries people just pay attention to "the chart", ie there is one singles chart, with everything in it, and you were either the bestseller or you weren't. Maybe that's why nobody else cares about these pigeonholes.

Long rant over.

For me, a lot of the songs on Dangerous are "dance", with a couple being "rock" and "ballad". You barely need any more than that. Very few of MJ's albums stay within one genre, especially not these sub-sub-genres that seem to have become popular.
 
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R1chard;4314251 said:
So what's wrong with calling it R&B? Being from a particular country or state doesn't warrant the invention of a new term. It just seems like heavy-handed over-categorization.
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Because that doesn't really mean anything. Technically R&B is code for music by black artists, just like when it was called "race music" in the early 1900s. "Race music" doesn't mean anything other than black music, it's not a sound. That's why when white people do R&B, it's sometimes called "blue eyed soul, or "Latin soul" if by Latino artists. "Rock n Roll" was originally just R&B by white artists. The early Rolling Stones records had remakes of blues songs, but because the Stones (& Elvis Presley) are white, then it's "rock" music. The same exact music by black artists is "rhythm & blues" or "soul music". "Gospel" is usually black artists & "contemporary Christian" is generally white artists. "R&B" had to crossover to the mainstream (code for white audience) Hot 100 singles chart. Music tends to be labeled by race/ethnicity in the USA and there's always been segregated radio formats here. It's the same with entertainment in general. Like there's TV channels for Latinos such as Telemundo & Univision. There's Black Entertainment Television & Bounce for the black audience. The USA is a large place with people of different tastes & cultures.

"Rhythm & Blues" can be James Brown, Rihanna, Michael Jackson, Louis Jordan, Brook Benton, Rick James, R. Kelly, Millie Jackson, Prince, Johnnie Taylor, Four Tops, Mary J. Blige, and so on. But if I want a funk record, I'm not going to buy Brook Benton, Luther Vandross, or Rihanna. I'm going to get a 1970s James Brown, Bar-Kays, Funkadelic, or Rick James record. If someone wants music for a New Jack Swing themed party, they're not going to play Dorothy Moore, Tyrone Davis, or Denise LaSalle which is called "Southern Soul". New Jack Swing artists would be Al B. Sure!, Today, or Bobby Brown. If the party DJ just played anything labeled R&B, the audience at the party might not dig a certain style of R&B. Sam Cooke might not flow well next to Zapp and that might not go well with an artist like Buckwheat Zydeco.

It's just like "pop music" doesn't mean anything. It's short for popular music for the mainstream audience. "Pop music" in 1925 has nothing in common (as a sound) with pop in 1974 or pop in 2020. What is pop in any given year generally has little to do with each other. In the 1980s all of these acts had Hot 100 pop hits in the USA:

Falco
Christopher Cross
Howard Jones
Mötley Crüe
Billy Ocean
Depeche Mode
Run-DMC
Hall & Oates
Styx
Chicago
Debbie Gibson
Miami Sound Machine
Terence Trent D'arby
Kenny Rogers
Whitney Houston
The Police
Kenny G
Bruce Springsteen
Pat Benetar
Duran Duran
Van Halen

Even in classical music there's different categories, and a lot of that music was created long before recorded music and radio stations with different formats existed. There's artists like The Beatles who are labeled rock, but they have songs that sound like showtunes and traditional Indian music.
 
DuranDuran;4314264 said:
It's just like "pop music" doesn't mean anything. It's short for popular music for the mainstream audience. "Pop music" in 1925 has nothing in common (as a sound) with pop in 1974 or pop in 2020. What is pop in any given year generally has little to do with each other.
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Actually it means.

Although it is true that pop music started in mid-1920s as popular music, since mid/late-1950s pop music has become a separate, distinct genre with its own characteristics:

- it borrows sounds mainly from rock and roll, but also from other genres, such as disco, or dance)
- it has a simple melodic structure (verse, chorus and bridge)
- the chorus has to be a catchy one that immediately sticks to listeners’ mind
- it has a fast tempo (a high ‘beats per minute’ value)
- it has simple lyrics with themes aimed mainly at teenagers
- the pop song’s length normally does not exceed four minutes

So, pop songs that have been recorded since mid/late-1950s until these days (2020), in essence most of them share these six common characteristics.
 
I don’t personally understand the hype around Janet or her music. No disrespect to her, because she’s immensely talented, but the “Janet vs. Michael” question has always been a no brainer in my opinion.

In my opinion, Rhythm Nation isn’t half the album Dangerous is. The title track is the only song that measures up to anything from the latter album. MJ’s album has a wider range of sonics, stronger songwriting, stronger vocals, less cliché lyrics (not to say that Dangerous doesn’t have some rough lyrical spots, but far less than Rhythm Nation), and better production.
 
Billboard

As recently as the 1980s R&B was straight up called "Black Music" in Billboard magazine.
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I haven't listen to Janet music yet. i been planning to. my grandmother was a fan of Janet and Michael loved her music as well. this is not a surprise because both of them are siblings of course not to mention both of them was/is inspire by each other.

right now i pick dangerous. the Michael vs Janet is silly. they brother and sister. to me it doesn't matter they both Jacksons unless Janet didn't want to be seen as the baby anymore which is understandable.
 
NatureCriminal7896 said:
the Michael vs Janet is silly. it remind of the Michael vs Prince. i believe that stuff was made by the media. all artists was talented each their own.
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I don't think the thread is really about that. It was the OP who wanted to know why Rhythm Nation 1814 was generally higher than Dangerous as a New Jack Swing album, not even as just an album. So the OP was comparing them.
 
This is a recent interview by NJS singer Al B. Sure! who had been in a coma for a couple of months. He mentions Mike around 1:10 - 1:34
 
Janet does amazing music and deserves her kudos. I never listen as much but I come away more and more impressed actually. She deserves more kudos.

With that said, there were a lotta subject matter experts on this forum before huh?

MJ's genius as an artist was surviving the New Jack Swing Era.
 
There is no such question as 'Janet vs. Michael' among people.

In any case, if you want to compare Janet Jackson and Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson's songs have generally deeper and more meaningful lyrics.

But the 'Madonna vs. Michael' question is an actual one, and it is very prevalent among people.

Madonna has actually been viewed as the female counterpart to Michael Jackson, and people compare the 2 of them all the time.
 
mj_frenzy said:
There is no such question as 'Janet vs. Michael' among people.

In any case, if you want to compare Janet Jackson and Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson's songs have generally deeper and more meaningful lyrics.
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Bro is so biased it's ridiculous...
 
I don't compare the two seeing as her's came 2 years prior. At that point, MJ was just starting work on the album, which at the time was going to be the greatest hits package Decade- 1979-1989.

By the time Dangerous came out in late 91, the life cycle of RN was declining, and she was setting up for the Janet album. There's no comparison IMO.
 
mj_frenzy said:
There is no such question as 'Janet vs. Michael' among people.

In any case, if you want to compare Janet Jackson and Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson's songs have generally deeper and more meaningful lyrics.

But the 'Madonna vs. Michael' question is an actual one, and it is very prevalent among people.

Madonna has actually been viewed as the female counterpart to Michael Jackson, and people compare the 2 of them all the time.
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Apparently you've never had any interaction with any hardcore Janet fans. They're the original BeyHive/Swifties. 🤣 Anyway, the thread was originally about the New Jack Swing era albums, not Mike & Janet in general. Madonna does not relate to anything about the 2 albums mentioned.
 
DuranDuran said:
Apparently you've never had any interaction with any hardcore Janet fans. They're the original BeyHive/Swifties. 🤣 Anyway, the thread was originally about the New Jack Swing era albums, not Mike & Janet in general. Madonna does not relate to anything about the 2 albums mentioned.
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By that logic, Jermaine Jackson's hardcore fans also compare Jermaine Jackson with Michael Jackson.

Janet Jackson's hardcore fans or Jermaine Jackson's hardcore fans constitute tiny percentages of people (i.e., listeners in general).
 
mj_frenzy said:
By that logic, Jermaine Jackson's hardcore fans also compare Jermaine Jackson with Michael Jackson.

Janet Jackson's hardcore fans or Jermaine Jackson's hardcore fans constitute tiny percentages of people (i.e., listeners in general).
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I've never seen that many people talking about Jermaine's music. He was nowhere near as popular as Janet. Janet appealed to a younger audience than Jermaine. Janet got Top 40 airplay, which Jermaine generally didn't except in a few cases. Jermaine was more the Luther Vandross, James Ingram, Anita Baker, & Freddie Jackson adult R&B audience. Most of Jermaine's Motown albums have never been on CD and have been out of print since they were originally released. They're not on streaming either, other than people posting their record copies on Youtube. No official versions.

How many people compare Mike to Madonna? I've mostly seen Mike vs Prince, in the media, and people in general talking about them. Even celebrities have said either Mike or Prince is better than the other. Madonna is not mentioned. I've also seen Mike compared to George Michael, Terence Trent D'Arby (aka Sananda), Bobby Brown, MC Hammer, & few others, but not really female artists. MC Hammer himself got into this with his 2 Legit 2 Quit music video that James Brown appeared in. I have seen Madonna vs Janet, Madonna vs Whitney Houston, or Janet vs Paula Abdul/Jody Watley.
 
DuranDuran said:
I've never seen that many people talking about Jermaine's music. He was nowhere near as popular as Janet. Janet appealed to a younger audience than Jermaine. Janet got Top 40 airplay, which Jermaine generally didn't except in a few cases. Jermaine was more the Luther Vandross, James Ingram, Anita Baker, & Freddie Jackson adult R&B audience. Most of Jermaine's Motown albums have never been on CD and have been out of print since they were originally released. They're not on streaming either, other than people posting their record copies on Youtube. No official versions.

How many people compare Mike to Madonna? I've mostly seen Mike vs Prince, in the media, and people in general talking about them. Even celebrities have said either Mike or Prince is better than the other. Madonna is not mentioned. I've also seen Mike compared to George Michael, Terence Trent D'Arby (aka Sananda), Bobby Brown, MC Hammer, & few others, but not really female artists. MC Hammer himself got into this with his 2 Legit 2 Quit music video that James Brown appeared in. I have seen Madonna vs Janet, Madonna vs Whitney Houston, or Janet vs Paula Abdul/Jody Watley.
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Many people compare Michael Jackson to Madonna.

For example, there have been countless comparisons (on websites, online forums, etc) between these 2 artists, like:

"Michael Jackson or Madonna - Who Has Made More of an Impact?"

"Michael Jackson vs. Madonna: Who more defined the 1980s?"

"Michael Jackson or Madonna - Who was the most talented?"

"Most influential pop music icon: Michael Jackson or Madonna?"

It is interesting that posters on Prince.org also create threads about comparing Michael Jackson to Madonna.

On MJJCommunity there have also been threads about comparing Michael Jackson to Madonna, and here is a reply of yours:

"Not this again. Who cares?" (@DuranDuran, 2009)

Your reply basically confirms that the comparison between Michael Jackson and Madonna is prevalent.
 
mj_frenzy said:
On MJJCommunity there have also been threads about comparing Michael Jackson to Madonna, and here is a reply of yours:

"Not this again. Who cares?" (@DuranDuran, 2009)

Your reply basically confirms that the comparison between Michael Jackson and Madonna is prevalent.
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People on this site start many threads about Invincible. That has little to do with the general public, they don't have that much interest in Invincible. The general public (in the USA at least) are mostly interested in the Quincy Jones produced albums, Thriller & Bad in particular. That's also the majority of the Mike songs that get played on oldies/retro radio stations in the US. You mentioned Prince.org. Well on that site a lot of the posters there do not like the Mike vs Prince comparisons, and some call him W---- J---- or think he's guilty. They think that Mike is inferior to Prince, that Mike & Madonna are just "song & dance" entertainers and Prince is "real music by real musicians". They brag about Prince playing all of the instruments on a lot of his stuff and Mike can't do that. The same thing happens with Elvis Presley fans, Elvis is better to them. But I've rarely seen Mike & Elvis compared in the mainstream media.
 
Rhythm Nation 1814 came 2 years before Dangerous while New Jack Swing was at its peak, and Michael was influenced by Rhythm Nation 1814 as well as many other New Jack Swing songs and albums. By the time Dangerous had come out, New Jack Swing was in it's later days as it started to die down into the 90s. I believe Dangerous was one of the last huge New Jack Swing albums and one of the biggest New Jack Swing albums, despite it being one of the last.
Dangerous and Rhythm Nation 1814 are both definitely in the top 10 New Jack Swing albums of all time.
 
DuranDuran said:
I've never seen that many people talking about Jermaine's music. He was nowhere near as popular as Janet. Janet appealed to a younger audience than Jermaine. Janet got Top 40 airplay, which Jermaine generally didn't except in a few cases. Jermaine was more the Luther Vandross, James Ingram, Anita Baker, & Freddie Jackson adult R&B audience. Most of Jermaine's Motown albums have never been on CD and have been out of print since they were originally released. They're not on streaming either, other than people posting their record copies on Youtube. No official versions.

How many people compare Mike to Madonna? I've mostly seen Mike vs Prince, in the media, and people in general talking about them. Even celebrities have said either Mike or Prince is better than the other. Madonna is not mentioned. I've also seen Mike compared to George Michael, Terence Trent D'Arby (aka Sananda), Bobby Brown, MC Hammer, & few others, but not really female artists. MC Hammer himself got into this with his 2 Legit 2 Quit music video that James Brown appeared in. I have seen Madonna vs Janet, Madonna vs Whitney Houston, or Janet vs Paula Abdul/Jody Watley.
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Jermaine populated in Europe and Africa. Janet populated in USA, NOT all world.

When the Rain Begins to Fall has more YouTube views than Rhythm Nation and pretty more other music videos by Janet.
 
Jermaine Jackson had 2 nr 1 hits in my country Belgium, Janet had 0, she had barely 6 top 10 hits including Scream. Jermaine had only 3 top 10 hits himself but 2 of them went nr 1 and in total he had 4 times less single releases than Janet.

It is save to say that Jermaine scored by far the biggest hit with “when the rain begins to fall”. None of Janet’s singles have become this widely known. It went to nr 1 in France, Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Belgium and in probably more countries.

It has to be said for some odd reason it completely flopped in other notable music countries UK, USA and Australia
 
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Dangerous vs. Rhythm Nation makes sense to me. Jermaine vs. Janet? I'm not getting that at all. :unsure:

Janet has sold approx 180 million records. She's won 5 Grammys, 11 AMA's, she's had one Oscar nomination, she's currently closing out a successful tour and then starts another Las Vegas residency. She released Control when she was only 19 and, afaik, it's sold approx 10 million copies. She was invited to perform on the Royal Variety Performance show in 1989.

That's just the stuff I can remember, I'm sure there's loads more. Jermaine isn't going to catch up with her any time soon.
 
filmandmusic said:
It has to be said for some odd reason it completely flopped in other notable music countries UK, USA and Australia
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Probably because Pia Zadora was never a thing in the US and neither was the movie that song came from. She couldn't even get radio airplay with Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis producing her, lol.
 
filmandmusic said:
It is save to say that Jermaine scored by far the biggest hit with “when the rain begins to fall”. None of Janet’s singles have become this widely known. It went to nr 1 in France, Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Belgium and in probably more countries.
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The song still playes on radio regulary in Germany.
 
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