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Best prints for each album?

SmoothGangsta said:
I agree with the list generally but not really with reasoning behind it. I don't think the recording chain is something to go with as an indication of better quality or not. All to do with how the final master of the cd/record sounds really.
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Well if they use the same master for both cd/vinyl, the CD is the way to go imo.

Also regarding mastering, the first US presses are generally considered the goat
 
Also posting this here for more visibility.

I had very interesting discussion with a collector from stevehoffman forums. It will be a long post, but it covers his opinion about the CDs/vinyls.

CDs:

Off the Wall
There are two primary versions of OtW. The easiest way to identify them is by using "Rock With You" as a guide. The original version doesn't have claps in the chorus - version two DOES have claps.

For the version without claps, I recommend the Japanese 1991 ESCA series CD. It has the exact same master as the original 80s CD at a far cheaper cost. This CD has pre-emphasis and will need to be properly decoded to sound right. I can offer advice on how to deal with pre-emphasis if you need it.
Michael Jackson - Off The Wall

For the remixed version WITH the claps, you have two options. My first recommendation would be the 2nd US CD. Very warm and natural sounding. Another great option is Bernie Grundman's 2001 remaster. Lots of clarity and punch, but less warm to my ears. I don't think you'd be disappointed with either, just a matter of taste.
Michael Jackson - Off The Wall
Michael Jackson - Off The Wall

Thriller
There's really no contest here. The original Japanese 35 8p-11 master is far and away the best version of Thriller - I might even like it more than any vinyl version I've heard. The cheapest way to get this master is once again through the 1991 Japanese ESCA series. Identical master, fraction of the cost. This disc ALSO has pre-emphasis like the OtW ESCA - but it's easy to deal with.
Michael Jackson - Thriller

For a cheaper alternative, I once again recommend Bernie Grundman's 2001 remaster series. I don't think it's nearly as good as the 35 8p-11, but it's very good.
Michael Jackson - Thriller

As somebody who owns the Japanese SACD - I do not think it's worth the insane prices that it commands. It sounds very, very good - but it is SO close to BG's 2001 remaster that it's just not worth the extra expense. And besides, it's still not as good as the Japanese master recommend above.

Bad
Once again, Bad has two primary versions. There are a NUMBER of significant changes across different versions, but the easiest way to spot an early master is to see if there is a spoken word intro on "I Just Can't Stop Loving You", as later versions removed it.

For the early version WITH the spoken word intro, I once again recommend the 1991 Japanese ESCA series. Sounds great.
Michael Jackson - Bad

Best version with all the edits is Bernie Grundman's 2001 remaster. Great low-end response from this disc.
Michael Jackson - Bad

Dangerous
The original CD of Dangerous sounds really thin. Best version is Bernie Grundman's 2001 remaster, much better bass on this disc.
Michael Jackson - Dangerous

HIStory
US 1st Press CD is the way to go here. Make sure it doesn't have the scratch edits on "They Don't Care About Us" - MJ was pressured after release to bleep out a couple of slurs - largely because people didn't understand what the song was about.
Michael Jackson - HIStory - Past, Present And Future - Book I

BOtDF
First US CD sounds great. No need to stray.
Michael Jackson - Blood On The Dance Floor: HIStory In The Mix

Invincible
Once again, stick to the first US CD.
Michael Jackson - Invincible
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Vinyl:

Off the Wall
For OtW, I STRONGLY recommend the US Mastersound release. It will absolutely blow you away. This is often the disc that I show off to friends who have never heard vinyl before.
Michael Jackson - Off The Wall

The Canada Mastersound also sounds great, and contains the earlier mixes I mentioned in my CD list.
Michael Jackson - Off The Wall


Thriller
MOST folks would say that the US 1st press of Thriller is the best... the easiest way to identify these is that MJ is NOT listed as "co-producer" on the back.
Michael Jackson - Thriller

However... My experience with these pressings is that, while they sound good, most copies have a serious issue with sibilance, very harsh "s" sounds all over the LP. The ONLY version that properly tames the sibilance is the US Mastersound pressing. It's my personal favorite to listen to and, to my ears, sounds much better than the US 1st press. That said, it's MUCH more expensive than the US 1st pressings, so your mileage may vary.
Michael Jackson - Thriller

Bad
I really like the sound of 1st pressings of Bad - you can either go with a US or Japanese press here, both sound fantastic.
Michael Jackson - Bad
Michael Jackson - Bad

The 2009 Music On Vinyl release is ALSO fantastic - it has the same master as the 2001 Bernie Grundman CD, just pressed to wax. It's a solid option, not nearly as good as the originals.
Michael Jackson - Bad

Dangerous
The first US Pressing of Dangerous is AMAZING. Worth every penny if you love this album. Stay away from the recent represses - they sound horrible.
Michael Jackson - Dangerous

HIStory
The original 3xLP pressing of HIStory is a great collectible... but honestly it sounds just horrible. Very digital and brittle. It's the only way to hear it on vinyl (that's not a picture disc) - but it's just not very good - especially for the prices it commands.
Michael Jackson - HIStory - Past, Present And Future - Book I

BOtDF
BOtDF fairs a bit better than HIStory, but it's still not worth the prices. Only buy if you're a die-hard (like me).
Michael Jackson - Blood On The Dance Floor / HIStory In The Mix

Invincible
I actually would avoid the 2009 Music On Vinyl release of Invincible. The original US pressings from 2001 are MUCH better. They're getting more expensive, but they really do sound quite a bit better than the later pressings.
Michael Jackson - Invincible
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Dorian said:
Also posting this here for more visibility.

I had very interesting discussion with a collector from stevehoffman forums. It will be a long post, but it covers his opinion about the CDs/vinyls.
Click to expand...
Talking only about the CDs... man i don't agree at all with their opinion about Bad and Dangerous 2001. Those are ass, nothing salvageable from those remasters.
Best version of Bad with the edits/final tracklist is definitely the 1989/1994 reissues, BY FAR.
Dangerous literally suffers from huge bass bloat in the special edition, otherwise i agree with most of the stuff said here.

Off The Wall specially, the "2nd US mastering" that they mentioned has been my go-to version of Off The Wall since forever, i love it so much i even own a copy (which due to my location, that's not easy :p)
 
NeoGardiV8 said:
Talking only about the CDs... man i don't agree at all with their opinion about Bad and Dangerous 2001. Those are ass, nothing salvageable from those remasters.
Best version of Bad with the edits/final tracklist is definitely the 1989/1994 reissues, BY FAR.
Dangerous literally suffers from huge bass bloat in the special edition, otherwise i agree with most of the stuff said here.

Off The Wall specially, the "2nd US mastering" that they mentioned has been my go-to version of Off The Wall since forever, i love it so much i even own a copy (which due to my location, that's not easy :p)
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I can understand his point about the 2001 editions. Although they're compressed to hell and beyond, they have a stronger sound in comparison to the first issues.

As for OTW, I much prefer the OG master (RWY without claps). Any of the 80s Japanese CDs are the way to go for it (after proper de-emphasis).
 
MJbr2 said:
I can understand his point about the 2001 editions. Although they're compressed to hell and beyond, they have a stronger sound in comparison to the first issues.

As for OTW, I much prefer the OG master (RWY without claps). Any of the 80s Japanese CDs are the way to go for it (after proper de-emphasis).
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How do you de-emphasise the CDs?
 
Just a bit off-topic now, here's a comparison between a few different copies of Thriller throughout the years (Human Nature):

35・8P-11 (1983 Japan 1st Press CD - Silver Disc) [de-emphasized]
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EK 66073 (2001 Special Edition US CD)
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19658734562 (Thriller 40 EU CD)
fxRyWQF.png


Although the 2001 edition is much louder, it's still much more dynamic than this new one which has this limiter on it.
 
there was only one CD pressing of TUC 2004 or more? i am looking for the best version of "We have had enough" for example.
 
I sent a message to Michael Fermer, regarding the Bad album. It seems the LP is better than the CD. This is what he said:

“The original digital master was higher than CD resolution. The record was cut from the higher resolution file. 50.4K sampling rate and very good sounding machine.”
 
Was the remixes bad album released on vinyl in 1988?
 
I swear by HIStory on it's original CD. Both discs I consider a Pinnacle in mastering quality. Though I don't delve into vinyl territory, at least not yet.
 
Regarding Thriller, some days ago I found the MoFi SACD fantastic.
Now that I took time to rip my MoFi vinyl and compare, I find that the One-Step vinyl adds somewhat more details and presence. (I think that vinyl is quite dependant on the gear used so: I played with an Audio Technica AT33Sa cartridge.)

I find the vinyl somewhat brighter too. Which surprised me because I find this cartridge somehow too warm on some other (older?) records. (It's actually said to be neutral, where the other cartridges/styli that I tested from Ortofon were somewhat brighter.)

But my "first" impression right now is that the One-Step vinyl is slightly superior to the SACD and both are now the best Thriller releases that can be purchased. (I haven't heard Atmos versions but to my understanding, or just rips but not with Atmos gear and I'm not sure if those count as "releases that you can buy".)
 
MJbr2 said:
There's a plugin for Foobar which does the job pretty nicely.
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How do you tell what a de-emphasized CD sounds like? I have the 35-8P-11 disc in my collection but I've never noticed anything sounding particularly off about it. I have it ripped to itunes and didn't use any plugins back when I ripped it years ago. I also have the Japanese Off The Wall pressing with the original mixes of Rock With You and Get on the Floor.
 
Mike P. said:
How do you tell what a de-emphasized CD sounds like? I have the 35-8P-11 disc in my collection but I've never noticed anything sounding particularly off about it. I have it ripped to itunes and didn't use any plugins back when I ripped it years ago. I also have the Japanese Off The Wall pressing with the original mixes of Rock With You and Get on the Floor.
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Huh?... you can tell the difference between a de-emphasized CD and one with pre-emph because the pre-emph one has an absurd amount of treble, please tell me you haven't been listening to that for years lol
 
NeoGardiV8 said:
Huh?... you can tell the difference between a de-emphasized CD and one with pre-emph because the pre-emph one has an absurd amount of treble, please tell me you haven't been listening to that for years lol
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I'll be honest, I really don't fully understand all of the technical audiophile stuff, lol. I only know what pre-emphasis is from lurking on music forums. All I know is that the 35-8P-11 is widely regarded to be the best sounding CD release of Thriller and to my ears, it is. To be fair, the version I listened to for years on my old computer was a rip from a torrent site and was probably already de-emphasized but I finally acquired a copy at my local f.y.e. in the mall a few years ago and I didn't notice anything different from the old torrent rip when I imported it to itunes. I once heard that itunes automatically removes pre-emphasis but I have absolutely no idea how true that is. I know what treble is and I can't say that I've ever noticed an overabundance of it when listening to this CD. It's also one of like 20 or so different releases of Thriller that I own as part of my overall MJ collection so it's not necessarily always the one I listen to. I also found that Japanese Dangerous remix CD at the same shop at around the same time I found the 35-8P-11.

I just got the MoFi SACD version in the mail today and am interested to see how it compares. I don't generally seek out audiophile releases of albums except when it's MJ.
 
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I've done some EXTENSIVE research regarding the albums. I'm missing some, but here it is what I got. Imma show you some graphs today and some samples in the coming days.

Starting with OTW.

Here we have Japanese 1982 CD vs 1988 CD vs 2001 CD (SE)

Screenshot-2023-02-22-103226.png


2001 CD (SE) vs 2015 CD vs 2016 CD (OTW 30)

Screenshot-2023-02-22-103459.png


Thriller.

Japanese 1982 CD vs 2001 CD (SE) vs 2008 CD (T25):

Screenshot-2023-02-22-102752.png


2008 CD (T25) vs 2015 CD vs 2022 CD (T40)

Screenshot-2023-02-22-102950.png


Japanese 1982 CD vs 1996 CD vs 2001 CD (SE)

Screenshot-2023-02-22-114957.png


BAD

1987 CD vs 1994 CD vs 2001 CD (SE)

Screenshot-2023-02-22-102308.png


2001 CD (SE) vs 2012 CD (B25) vs 2015 CD

Screenshot-2023-02-22-102411.png


Dangerous

1991 CD vs 2001 CD (SE) vs 2015 CD

Screenshot-2023-02-21-164906.png


HIStory

1995 CD vs 2009 CD (?) vs 2007 TR24

Screenshot-2023-02-21-171239.png


BOTDF

1997 CD vs 2009 CD vs 2014 TR24

Screenshot-2023-02-21-171732.png
 
Maxym said:
Which ones ?

Are the emphasised CDs de-emphasised or not?

Would be interesting to add waveform statistics, but maybe that was already enough work ;-)
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The only pre emp are the Japanese otw and thriller. And they are de emphasised. I noticed a sweet spot between o.g. Releases and the SE, so I was looking around for a thriller disc from 88
 
That from Europe or one of the two from Japan?
I thought if you had included catalog references and matrix number, it would make things clearer.
 
Maxym said:
That from Europe or one of the two from Japan?
I thought if you had included catalog references and matrix number, it would make things clearer.
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I will, it’s a lot of work to do though :D
 
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