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Bill Bottrell on Brian Lorens contribution to BoW

Fuzball

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Oh yes. Brian and I have talked about it. Last time was prob 8 years ago.
We don't disagree on the change he made:
I asked him to rap the lines I wrote.
Just to play for M.
He very much didn't want to do it but he tried
2nd to the last line he couldn't phrase well.
He shortened my line: "I'm staring at the moon and it just gets duller"
To: "I've seen the bright get duller"
I said "oh that works!"
But he really didn't want to do the rap for the demo
And he left, back to his room.

It's a good change, and I've always mentioned him in that regard. I also rapped my original line and maybe should have used it. He never brought it up again till 14 years later. At that time we still agreed on what he changed.

Brian was a team member for the Dangerous sessions.
I'd bring him in to play on occasions like B or W synth bass, drum programming on Who is It. Prob other things that got cut.
Important stuff. I always included him and paid from my budget. Gave him verbal and official credit in the press.
But when his good songs got cut, (by M) that "team" thing didn't feel so good. (I assume)

But he got a solo record deal from Clive Davis before Dangerous was done, he rolled up in a nice Merc.

(speculation) Maybe M. felt betrayed? I was not involved, but Brian has been resentful ever since. Not to me though.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1723513981770555672
 
This pretty much confirms what I have speculated since listening to Loren’s interview on the MJCast: that he is bitter and resentful towards MJ and others who have worked closely with him, because of the time he spent working on the record, with none of his songs making the cut. And that he exaggerates stories and twists them, to make himself look good.

I believe Bottrell. He at least acknowledged that Loren did in fact change something on the song, and over the years he has proven that he has a great memory of when and how things have happened, during his time working with MJ. Loren bashed Michael and any close collaborator of his, including Bottrell and Brad Buxer, even falsely claiming that he was closer to MJ than Buxer, which is ludicrous.
 
I'm tired of Loren apologists. Maybe this'll stop the blindly believing every new story that comes out 20 years after we've established the facts.
 
Didn't he also promise to leak some of the unreleased stuff he worked on with Michael in that interview..?
 
Victorious said:
Didn't he also promise to leak some of the unreleased stuff he worked on with Michael in that interview..?
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I don't believe that given he has been asking fans to contribute money for any of the previously leaked songs they may have listened to
 
Fuzball said:
Oh yes. Brian and I have talked about it. Last time was prob 8 years ago.
We don't disagree on the change he made:
I asked him to rap the lines I wrote.
Just to play for M.
He very much didn't want to do it but he tried
2nd to the last line he couldn't phrase well.
He shortened my line: "I'm staring at the moon and it just gets duller"
To: "I've seen the bright get duller"
I said "oh that works!"
But he really didn't want to do the rap for the demo
And he left, back to his room.

It's a good change, and I've always mentioned him in that regard. I also rapped my original line and maybe should have used it. He never brought it up again till 14 years later. At that time we still agreed on what he changed.

Brian was a team member for the Dangerous sessions.
I'd bring him in to play on occasions like B or W synth bass, drum programming on Who is It. Prob other things that got cut.
Important stuff. I always included him and paid from my budget. Gave him verbal and official credit in the press.
But when his good songs got cut, (by M) that "team" thing didn't feel so good. (I assume)

But he got a solo record deal from Clive Davis before Dangerous was done, he rolled up in a nice Merc.

(speculation) Maybe M. felt betrayed? I was not involved, but Brian has been resentful ever since. Not to me though.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1723513981770555672
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Wow… That really confirms that Loren really is just trying to make himself look good at all times, telling make believe stories. I like the songs that came out from Loren’s Sessions with Michael, but come on, it’s Dangerous we’re talking about. The whole atmosphere changed for the better.

Glad Billy Bottrell could shed some light on the matter. Great to know and I hope this gains some traction.
 
None of us were in the room. Who knows what is the truth? Loren sounds genuinely upset about the rap in the MJcast interview. I am going to have to listen to it again.
 
xam said:
None of us were in the room. Who knows what is the truth? Loren sounds genuinely upset about the rap in the MJcast interview. I am going to have to listen to it again.
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Fair point, however, Loren sounds genuinely upset about everything in that interview, and has very little nice things to say, in general.

Due to how upset he appears to be with MJ, it is to be expected that he is not going to have anything nice to say about neither him, nor his closest collaborators (Brad Buxer, Bill Bottrell…), and that he will twist stories in order to make himself look better.

There are a number of things in that interview that sound pretty far-fetched, to the point where Loren sounds paranoid. He mentions songs which were released after his work with Michael on Dangerous, which sound like his songs. Ok, they sound like your songs.

Many songs sound like many songs. Do you really think there is a whole conspiracy going on that Michael simply did not want to work with you, because of reasons, and instead used your work as an example behind your back? Why? Why not simply develop these songs further with you, if they are so similar to what ended up on the record? That’s a typical Loren comment, which was simply made in order to make himself look good and appear as the victim, in my opinion.

Even if the songs are similar, what’s your point? You can’t expect to get royalties if a song is similar to yours, as long as it’s not directly stolen.

As I mentioned before, he thinks he was closer to Michael than Buxer. That’s ludicrous! Absolutely ridiculous. “Michael spent Christmas at my house on two occasions.” Alright, so what. You were working on music together and it just so happened to be around Christmas time twice. Were you there at Neverland? Were you there during the 1993 allegations? During the 2005 trial? Did your musical relationship with Michael last 20 years? Were you part of any of his tours? Did Michael write songs directly inspired by your life? The answer is no!
And there were other things.

His attitude was rude and unpleasant. That’s not how you do an interview, especially if you want people to listen to you, no matter how upset you are. In the end, of course we can’t be sure of what happened. Maybe Loren is really the victim in all of this. Going by the statements so far, however, I believe people like Bottrell more than him.
 
Now MJ is dead they can claim everything.

And for many it seems like the more time goes by - the more they were actually involved.

In 15 years it was actually his idea, his beat, his song. - But MJ stole it... :rolleyes:
 
xam said:
None of us were in the room. Who knows what is the truth? Loren sounds genuinely upset about the rap in the MJcast interview. I am going to have to listen to it again.
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You believed Loren pretty consistently. Now it's "Who Knows". Very funny of you.
 
xam said:
None of us were in the room. Who knows what is the truth? Loren sounds genuinely upset about the rap in the MJcast interview. I am going to have to listen to it again.
Click to expand...
When Loren is the only person to make certain accusations, often in direct conflict with our general knowledge of the events, it’s pretty safe to assume he’s lying. Like others have said, the claim that he was closer to MJ than Brad Buxer is verifiably false.

Loren’s demeanor has always been confrontational, dismissive, and disrespectful.
 
The melody and instrumentation of 7 digits seems very similar to HIStory. We will have to wait and see till the Loren tracks are leaked or released (If ever) to confirm. Its just speculation for now. MJ often re used ideas from previous songs, its not like its a big revelation. Sometimes he took whole melodies without credit. Beautiful Girl and the Way you love me are pretty much completely the same melodically as 2 songs from the 60's (which I've lost the names for). All artists take ideas from previous works, its just a matter to what degree and should it be considered unethical and plagiarism and compensation needed. Paul McCartney "borrowed" the phrase Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da from Jimmy Scott, when he really should have been given writing credit.
 
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AlwaysThere said:
When Loren is the only person to make certain accusations, often in direct conflict with our general knowledge of the events,
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Loren was part of the 'events'. None of us were. I don't care about what is popular opinion. If the expression of my opinion is offensive to you because I'm not "on your side", I can't help you.
AlwaysThere said:
it’s pretty safe to assume he’s lying.
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Not to me it isn't. I think Loren is a strong-willed, talented guy expressing a reality that many fans do not want to hear. MJ's collaborators get screwed, and Loren was screwed. He didn't want to talk about it for years because it hurt him, and he finally talks about it and I'm very grateful he did, because I think behind the 'gloss' there are lots of these stories.
AlwaysThere said:
Like others have said, the claim that he was closer to MJ than Brad Buxer is verifiably false.
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Well it seems like many collaborators like to brag about their MJ time. Both Loren and Buxer do.
AlwaysThere said:
Loren’s demeanor has always been confrontational, dismissive, and disrespectful.
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He didn't come across like that to me at all. He probably told his story more honestly than anybody else, is my thinking. Do any of us know for sure? No. But I tend to think his story is sincere.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
You believed Loren pretty consistently. Now it's "Who Knows". Very funny of you.
Click to expand...

Who knows indeed. None of us do. Do you? I think Bryan has legitimate gripes, and I don't think he is lying. If you have a problem with that, I can't help you.
 
xam said:
Loren was part of the 'events'. None of us were. I don't care about what is popular opinion. If the expression of my opinion is offensive to you because I'm not "on your side", I can't help you.

Not to me it isn't. I think Loren is a strong-willed, talented guy expressing a reality that many fans do not want to hear. MJ's collaborators get screwed, and Loren was screwed. He didn't want to talk about it for years because it hurt him, and he finally talks about it and I'm very grateful he did, because I think behind the 'gloss' there are lots of these stories.

Well it seems like many collaborators like to brag about their MJ time. Both Loren and Buxer do.

He didn't come across like that to me at all. He probably told his story more honestly than anybody else, is my thinking. Do any of us know for sure? No. But I tend to think his story is sincere.
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Enjoy the contrarian stance then. It's basically come down to "what you feel in your heart is right", and not obvious common sense and observation.
 
Honestly, given how much time MJ spent working with Loren, it was disrespectful to not include any of his songs on the album. None of them were good, but let's be real

Why You Wanna Trip on Me
She Drives Me Wild
Can't Let Her Get Away
Keep the Faith

Dangerous could have done without any of these songs entirely. They're just about as mediocre as the songs MJ made with Loren, if not even worse. The album was 14 tracks and over 70 minutes, and they couldn't include at least one of the what, ten, songs that Loren made for MJ? Anyone would be upset in his place.
 
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out of all the BL songs we've heard so far, serious effect is imo stronger than clhga or sdmw
 
Spaceship said:
Why You Wanna Trip on Me
She Drives Me Wild
Can't Let Her Get Away
Keep the Faith

Dangerous could have done without any of these songs entirely. They're just about as mediocre as the songs MJ made with Loren, if not even worse.
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The first three are not strong but they do have a more 90s (NJS) sound than Loren's work. I agree it's still a bit weird that none of Loren's work was chosen for Dangerous
 
Spaceship said:
Honestly, given how much time MJ spent working with Loren, it was disrespectful to not include any of his songs on the album. None of them were good, but let's be real

Why You Wanna Trip on Me
She Drives Me Wild
Can't Let Her Get Away
Keep the Faith

Dangerous could have done without any of these songs entirely. They're just about as mediocre as the songs MJ made with Loren, if not even worse. The album was 14 tracks and over 70 minutes, and they couldn't include at least one of the what, ten, songs that Loren made for MJ? Anyone would be upset in his place.
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He got Superfly Sister, there's not no trace of the guy.

Anyway, your taste remains as piss poor as can be, honestly. It's. It not like you even like MJ music post, probably Off The Wall, anyway.
 
Spaceship said:
Honestly, given how much time MJ spent working with Loren, it was disrespectful to not include any of his songs on the album. None of them were good, but let's be real

Why You Wanna Trip on Me
She Drives Me Wild
Can't Let Her Get Away
Keep the Faith

Dangerous could have done without any of these songs entirely. They're just about as mediocre as the songs MJ made with Loren, if not even worse. The album was 14 tracks and over 70 minutes, and they couldn't include at least one of the what, ten, songs that Loren made for MJ? Anyone would be upset in his place.
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Bryan Loren stated that the fact that none of his songs made the 'Dangerous' album was because of office politics and behind-the-scenes machinations during those sessions.

Michael Jackson's team did not want Bryan Loren to be on the 'Dangerous' album at all.
 
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