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Bill Bottrell on Brian Lorens contribution to BoW

Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Family Thing
To Satisfy You
Superfly Sister
Serious Effect
She Got It
Work That Body
Most of what ended up on Dangerous Special Edition.
Click to expand...
Ok so, the first 2 are completely unfinished
serious effect and work that body are completely mediocre
The other 2 are good tracks but pale next to what actually made the album
 
filmandmusic said:
What are some of the titles Loren did for Dangerous?
Click to expand...
Man In Black
Don't Believe It
Seven Digits
Stay
All The Truth
Call It Off
The Verdict (not the leaked HIStory version)
Truth About Youth
She Got It
Work That Body
Superfly Sister
Serious Effect


There are other songs such as Family Thing and Mind Is The Magic but those weren't made for Dangerous necessarily.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Family Thing
To Satisfy You
Superfly Sister
Serious Effect
She Got It
Work That Body
Most of what ended up on Dangerous Special Edition.
Click to expand...
Nothing ended up on Dangerous Special Edition, they were intended to but in the end the special edition received no bonuses in comparison to the other special edition re-releases. What we have we got through a leak.
 
filmandmusic said:
Ok so, the first 2 are completely unfinished
serious effect and work that body are completely mediocre
The other 2 are good tracks but pale next to what actually made the album
Click to expand...
To Satisfy You was given to Bryan Loren for his 2nd album. Not "unfinished", just not an MJ track.

NeoGardiV8 said:
Nothing ended up on Dangerous Special Edition, they were intended to but in the end the special edition received no bonuses in comparison to the other special edition re-releases. What we have we got through a leak.
Click to expand...
I know it's not an official release but it might as well be.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
To Satisfy You was given to Bryan Loren for his 2nd album. Not "unfinished", just not an MJ track.


I know it's not an official release but it might as well be.
Click to expand...
No no, you see, it's very important that we distinguish it from official releases and unofficial stuff, because if we make that distinction, then that would mean only one of Bryan's colabs with MJ ever saw the light of day in an album of his, and that's funny as shit.
 
NeoGardiV8 said:
No no, you see, it's very important that we distinguish it from official releases and unofficial stuff, because if we make that distinction, then that would mean only one of Bryan's colabs with MJ ever saw the light of day in an album of his, and that's funny as shit.
Click to expand...
Well, yeah. It did. I see your point. 2 tracks though.

What's funnier is L.A. Reid only made MJ one song that got turned down, and in retaliation he made him dance as a zombie all over again.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Well, yeah. It did. I see your point. 2 tracks though.

What's funnier is L.A. Reid only made MJ one song that got turned down, and in retaliation he made him dance as a zombie all over again.
Click to expand...
Hmm? 2? Which other track am i missing?
Do The Bartman doesn't count because i did say "only one track saw the light of day in an album of his (his reffering to MJ)"
 
"Family Thing" wasn't Loren. MJ started working on that with Riley in 1993 for the Addams Family movie.
 
A while ago I tried to go over all the information about the work of MJ and Bryan Loren.

BL has talked about this quite a bit since the 2000s, particularly via his MySpace blog.

Based on several sources, notably thanks to his seminar in Paris in 2016, to videos revealed on YouTube, to his blog, to songs released officially or written on a handwritten list, and recently to songs recorded on ASCAP & BMI, I I was able to make a list of 19 titles from the collaboration MJ & Bryan Loren only. BL didn't mention the state of the 20/25 songs in general, which is why I took all the demos mentioned (ranging from full songs to instrumentals or remixes) by Bryan Loren for MJ.

Superfly Sister
Work That Body
Serious Effect
She Got It
Mind Is The Magic
Do The Bartman
Man In Black (a finalized version exists according to BL)
Seven Digits (Shana Mangatal has the demo as well as audio of the demo's creation)
Don’t Believe It (BL has audio on the writing/creation of the demo, there may be a beatbox from MJ at the end of the demo)
To Satify You (MJ in backing vocals only)
All The Truth (BL on vocals and MJ in backing vocals only)
Verdict
Call It Off (There are lyrics written by BL on a handwritten sheet, in the possession of Shana Mangatal, MJ present in the choirs only)
Stay
Truth About Youth (second song by LL Cool J and MJ, no info on the existence of MJ's vocals)
Family Thing (BL specifies that it is indeed a work by Teddy Riley, but BL would have written lyrics for this demo, no information on the existence of the singing of these lyrics by MJ)
House Groove (instruction proposed to MJ, not retained)
Serious Moonlight (demo proposed to MJ, not accepted)
Son of Thriller (BL remix of various MJ songs including Billie Jean, the idea for the remixes on Blood On The Dancefloor came from him according to him)
Homeless Bound (Thanks @ChanceToDance)


I removed from the list titles like Deep In The Night and Fever which would have been mentioned in his MySpace, but I cannot find the info or other sources stating them. Deep In The Night was reportedly proposed by BL for the Invincible sessions, but not recorded.

I also removed the title Pressure from BL from the list (I can no longer find the source), there would also be another song with this name from the Invincible sessions by Rodney Jerkins.

Bryan Loren also commented on the fact that one of Teddy Riley's songs from Dangerous sounds like one of Bryan Loren's (possibly instrumental only) songs. This instrument used is called Garbage. Garbage also appears in a recently leaked list of Brad Sundberg tracks. I didn't add it to the list because we have very little information.

During the 2016 seminar, Bryan Loren indicates that he was present for all of MJ's vocal parts. He specifies that at the time there was no planning, MJ was very relaxed. All that changed when MJ had his date with Tommy Mottola. Also during this seminar, BL indicates that he was not approached by the Estate for his music. BL owns 50% of the titles he wrote for MJ. According to him, the Estate can therefore do what it wants with this music without asking for his authorization.

At the end of 2016, BL said in an interview that the Estate had no plans for its music already revealed online.

In 2021, the Estate recorded new songs with ASCAP including songs by Bryan Loren. Of the 14, 4 unreleased tracks are by him including Man In Black, Seven Digits, Stay and Verdict. Unfortunately no indication on the status of these demos.

Recently, BL reported that almost all of its tracks have been leaked, but only songs with vocals have been popular. Which suggests that we almost already know the MJ titles featuring vocals (with a few exceptions).

Some unreleased titles are found on this handwritten list for the album Dangerous as well, a list sold at auction in 2012:
3uOl8_d.webp



There were auctions with JULIEN AUCTION and on this handwritten list, he appears with titles like Verdict, All The Truth, Truth About Youth, 7 Digits and Don't Believe It:

www.juliensauctions.com

Julien's Auctions Icons & Idols Rock 'N' Roll - November 2021

Open and start reading right away!
www.juliensauctions.com www.juliensauctions.com

Sources :
onmjfootsteps.com

Michael Jackson et Bryan Loren

Bryan Loren est un compositeur, producteur, interprète et musicien américain qui a travaillé avec des grands noms de la musique tels que Barry White, Janet Jackson, Sting ou Whitney Houston. Au début des années 90, il collabore avec Michael Jackson sur son album Dangerous. Aucun des titres qu’il...
onmjfootsteps.com onmjfootsteps.com

Man In Black https://www.ascap.com/repertory#/ace/search/workID/899146418
Stay
Verdict
Seven Digits

His blog unusable now for my part : http://blogs.myspace.com/bloren2
 
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I find it incredibly hard to take anything BL says seriously. So it's kinda annoying that the main source when it comes to these songs is him.
 
SmoothMel7 said:
A while ago I tried to go over all the information about the work of MJ and Bryan Loren.

BL has talked about this quite a bit since the 2000s, particularly via his MySpace blog.

Based on several sources, notably thanks to his seminar in Paris in 2016, to videos revealed on YouTube, to his blog, to songs released officially or written on a handwritten list, and recently to songs recorded on ASCAP & BMI, I I was able to make a list of 18 titles from the collaboration MJ & Bryan Loren only. BL didn't mention the state of the 20/25 songs in general, which is why I took all the demos mentioned (ranging from full songs to instrumentals or remixes) by Bryan Loren for MJ.

Superfly Sister
Work That Body
Serious Effect
She Got It
Mind Is The Magic
Do The Bartman
Man In Black (a finalized version exists according to BL)
Seven Digits (Shana Mangatal has the demo as well as audio of the demo's creation)
Don’t Believe It (BL has audio on the writing/creation of the demo, there may be a beatbox from MJ at the end of the demo)
To Satify You (MJ in backing vocals only)
All The Truth (BL on vocals and MJ in backing vocals only)
Verdict
Call It Off (There are lyrics written by BL on a handwritten sheet, in the possession of Shana Mangatal, MJ present in the choirs only)
Stay
Truth About Youth (second song by LL Cool J and MJ, no info on the existence of MJ's vocals)
Family Thing (BL specifies that it is indeed a work by Teddy Riley, but BL would have written lyrics for this demo, no information on the existence of the singing of these lyrics by MJ)
House Groove (instruction proposed to MJ, not retained)
Serious Moonlight (demo proposed to MJ, not accepted)
Son of Thriller (BL remix of various MJ songs including Billie Jean, the idea for the remixes on Blood On The Dancefloor came from him according to him)


I removed from the list titles like Deep In The Night and Fever which would have been mentioned in his MySpace, but I cannot find the info or other sources stating them. Deep In The Night was reportedly proposed by BL for the Invincible sessions, but not recorded.

I also removed the title Pressure from BL from the list (I can no longer find the source), there would also be another song with this name from the Invincible sessions by Rodney Jerkins.

Bryan Loren also commented on the fact that one of Teddy Riley's songs from Dangerous sounds like one of Bryan Loren's (possibly instrumental only) songs. This instrument used is called Garbage. Garbage also appears in a recently leaked list of Brad Sundberg tracks. I didn't add it to the list because we have very little information.

During the 2016 seminar, Bryan Loren indicates that he was present for all of MJ's vocal parts. He specifies that at the time there was no planning, MJ was very relaxed. All that changed when MJ had his date with Tommy Mottola. Also during this seminar, BL indicates that he was not approached by the Estate for his music. BL owns 50% of the titles he wrote for MJ. According to him, the Estate can therefore do what it wants with this music without asking for his authorization.

At the end of 2016, BL said in an interview that the Estate had no plans for its music already revealed online.

In 2021, the Estate recorded new songs with ASCAP including songs by Bryan Loren. Of the 14, 4 unreleased tracks are by him including Man In Black, Seven Digits, Stay and Verdict. Unfortunately no indication on the status of these demos.

Recently, BL reported that almost all of its tracks have been leaked, but only songs with vocals have been popular. Which suggests that we almost already know the MJ titles featuring vocals (with a few exceptions).

Some unreleased titles are found on this handwritten list for the album Dangerous as well, a list sold at auction in 2012:
3uOl8_d.webp



There were auctions with JULIEN AUCTION and on this handwritten list, he appears with titles like Verdict, All The Truth, Truth About Youth, 7 Digits and Don't Believe It:

www.juliensauctions.com

Julien's Auctions Icons & Idols Rock 'N' Roll - November 2021

Open and start reading right away!
www.juliensauctions.com www.juliensauctions.com

Sources :
onmjfootsteps.com

Michael Jackson et Bryan Loren

Bryan Loren est un compositeur, producteur, interprète et musicien américain qui a travaillé avec des grands noms de la musique tels que Barry White, Janet Jackson, Sting ou Whitney Houston. Au début des années 90, il collabore avec Michael Jackson sur son album Dangerous. Aucun des titres qu’il...
onmjfootsteps.com onmjfootsteps.com

Man In Black https://www.ascap.com/repertory#/ace/search/workID/899146418
Stay
Verdict
Seven Digits

His blog unusable now for my part : http://blogs.myspace.com/bloren2
Click to expand...
Thank you for putting together all this info! One thing to also add is that Bryan Loren also worked on Homeless Bound.
lucascava.medium.com

Michael Jackson’s HIStory: An Essay.

Michael Jackson was quite simply one of the biggest celebrities of the 20th century, a distinction that brought with it endless coverage…
lucascava.medium.com lucascava.medium.com
"Superfly Sister would be the one Bryan Loren/Jackson collaboration that would feature on HIStory In The Mix. Loren worked extensively with Michael during the early Dangerous sessions, working on tracks such as Man In Black, Work That Body, Homeless Bound and other songs that remained unreleased."
Click to expand...
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Family Thing
To Satisfy You
Superfly Sister
Serious Effect
She Got It
Work That Body
Most of what ended up on Dangerous Special Edition.
Click to expand...
Loren's work was more of a call to the past and Prince with its funky undertones and Michael wanted to do songs with NJS which was the popular genre of the time. Once Riley came in, it made sense to push the songs he was doing. Remember the Time, In the Closet etc.

I agree Serious effect should have been on the album but Monkey Business, For all time and BOTDF are stronger than all of those songs and they didn't make it either. They just didn't fit. I think the album that ultimately came out was polished and fufilled the vision Michael envisioned, + the commercial results of Dangerous speaks for itself. They made the right call, but I can fully understand the frustration and bitterness of Loren for all that work to not go anywhere (knowing he could of directly had his own songs on one of the biggest albums of all time).
 
ChanceToDance said:
Thank you for putting together all this info! One thing to also add is that Bryan Loren also worked on Homeless Bound.
lucascava.medium.com

Michael Jackson’s HIStory: An Essay.

Michael Jackson was quite simply one of the biggest celebrities of the 20th century, a distinction that brought with it endless coverage…
lucascava.medium.com lucascava.medium.com
Click to expand...
My pleasure ! Thanks for the Homeless Bound info that I didn't have. If we imagine that he also worked on the instrumental songs Garbage and Bubbles (present in the list which leaked recently), we can think that we already know the twenty titles worked on and that there are very few songs left. with voice of MJ...
 
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