Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

The graphic detailing of the abuse in this doc is weird

Has anyone else seen ANY OTHER doc where there’s so much detail? I haven’t but interested to hear from others.

Would someone who had genuinely been abused want to go into such detail?
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

They say he is stepping down because he is not in agreement with the new owner's strategy. He is the guy the estate called incompetent and a desperate failure in their lawsuit against HBO. Maybe he was against it but was shut down by AT&T. Maybe their lawyers did miss the disparagement clause and he is being blamed. Who knows. They say he made up his mind weeks ago. The timing does say this is related to the doc. He could have done it before or after but on the eve of broadcasting it he steps down one cannot but think it has to do with the documentary.

Then he should speak up now that he is no longer linked to the channel .
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I can imagine what people's reaction will be to the graphic details. I still remember how sick I felt after watching the movie Sleepers in the nineties. I cried and could not believe the cruelty of the crimes committed against the boys. There was no graphic details but scenes that allude to horrific things taking place. It's understandable why many would lose it after watching and hearing the very graphic details of the accusation. Reed knew what he was doing. Till this day I cannot even read Jordan Chandler interview with Dr. Gardener without feeling sick. May God help mi's three kids, family and help us.
 
MJJ2theMAX;4243877 said:
The graphic detailing of the abuse in this doc is weird

Has anyone else seen ANY OTHER doc where there’s so much detail? I haven’t but interested to hear from others.

Would someone who had genuinely been abused want to go into such detail?

They are copied it off gutierez.. nambla 101 reed has an obsession with it. Throwing stones to hide his hands
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I can imagine what people's reaction will be to the graphic details. I still remember how sick I felt after watching the movie Sleepers in the nineties. I cried and could not believe the cruelty of the crimes committed against the boys. There was no graphic details but scenes that allude to horrific things taking place. It's understandable why many would lose it after watching and hearing the very graphic details of the accusation. Reed knew what he was doing. Till this day I cannot even read Jordan Chandler interview with Dr. Gardener without feeling sick. May God help mi's three kids, family and help us.

Doesnt matter if people think its B.S .it will just make people think they are even worse for making such crap up
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

So the Washington Post is calling out Michaels brothers and Taj for defending "their golden goose"....and fails to mention any money involved with the "victims" lawsuit, how fitting?

How hard can it be to understand Taj Jackson does not get paid by The Estate?

They have some nerve. Damned if they do, Damned if they don't basically. So Washington Post expects that his family doesn't come to his defense? The logic of these "journalists", I swear.

So it's absolutely fine for two men to completely ruin a dead person in a "documentary" and have it be as one sided as it can but Michael's family defending him... Ooohh no we can't have that.

F@ck...outta....here WP!

If the gen public are commenting on these sites and saying its B S then they are hardly gonna sit down and watch it. just like reed is doing the p.r rounds with all his nambla talk to try and make it look as perverted as poss so people watch. If people are calling it B.S based off P.R interviews then they will have no intrest sitting through 4 hrs of B.S

Has it been a good balance between comments from fans and non-fans? I mean Mike has tons of fans over the world. Personally I've mostly been to FB posts and usually it seems to be the fans. I really hope some non-fans and former doubters are among them too. :)
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Then he should speak up now that he is no longer linked to the channel .

He had a meeting with Oprah the night before he resigned and it was definitely in relation to the documentary. He is in it like everyone else. He will take credit for this shit if the public sides with the accusers and if not he will distance himself. I hope the estate has a strong case against HBO. I am worried their case against them will turn out to be as weak as their case was against Quincey Johns.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Doesnt matter if people think its B.S .it will just make people think they are even worse for making such crap up

I hope so elusive I really hope so. Their interviews are really weak and you can tell they are acting but I am now worried about how they come across in the documentary. If only the estate can rebut immediately. but wishful thinking on my part. The fans will rip it to shreds I am sure. I will not be watching. I simply cannot hear this stuff I cannot.
 
myosotis;4243866 said:
Taj and Brandi are the best spokespeople. They know Robson, and they were around at the time. There is nothing MJ's children (or Janet) can say, that the Estate Atty's cannot put forward with more force. The 'anti' media will just say (correctly) of course they will defend their father / brother. Their statements will carry no weight.

Disagree. Did you see the interview with TMez? We need more of this but from someone who is up to sleek with the civil claim.

The estate needs a professional lawyer or PR person to set out in very clear and simple terms all the inconsistencies and problems with Wade and James lawsuit etc. The fact TMez has been interviewed shows that some shows are reaching out for comment from an alternative viewpoint (even if it’s a minimal segment of their show)

The general public will expect Michaels brothers to defend him and whatever they say it’ll carry practically no weight. I know they’re trying their best but they are not trained at this and haven’t done any research/are clamming up in interviews. There are good points to be made. We just need someone to make them.

Taj has been excellent though.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

IMG-20190228-195150.jpg



IMG-20190228-194530-097.jpg

This letter MUST be spread to celebrities who love MJ ( Bruno Mars , Beyonce etc ..) .If someone that influent like Martin Luther King Jr can stand up for Michael , they can do it too . They can show this letter to support their own support .
 
MJJ2theMAX;4243887 said:
Disagree. Did you see the interview with TMez? We need more of this but from someone who is up to sleek with the civil claim.

The estate needs a professional lawyer or PR person to set out in very clear and simple terms all the inconsistencies and problems with Wade and James lawsuit etc. The fact TMez has been interviewed shows that some shows are reaching out for comment from an alternative viewpoint (even if it’s a minimal segment of their show)

The general public will expect Michaels brothers to defend him and whatever they say it’ll carry practically no weight. I know they’re trying their best but they are not trained at this and haven’t done any research/are clamming up in interviews. There are good points to be made. We just need someone to make them.

Taj has been excellent though.

Did you see the MJ Estates response to the email I sent to them calling for them to send out a PR-lawyer or more who know all the details about the Safechuck & Robson litigation? I posted it in a separate thread because so many people have questioned the estates strategy, and I figured many people would be interested to at least get a reply from them about it.

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...-Estates-strategy-to-combat-Leaving-Neverland
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Also, in the clip in the documentary, they zoom in closer to Michaels face a few times. It could be for dramatic effect....or it could be because at certain times in the video, you could see the Michael holding the Grammy award he had just won, so they zoomed in to crop it out.

It would be interesting to see if Michael bush has any records on when Michael gave the jacket back to him.

Sorry for the long post. I just thought this was very interesting.

I believe reed somehow got a copy of the unaired Grammy award acceptance speech video and has manipulated to his liking. The technology exists now to be able to do this. Also, don't forget, fan works in the film industry. He knows people that might have access to footage we have never seem , like this clip.


I hope you don't mind me shortening your post.....


While I don't agree that there is an obvious discrepancy between what the video shows and the audio says, I DO think you have a point about the message being edited.

For a video recording of a birthday message, I see no reason why anybody would go to the effort of editing the video with close up shots. At least not for the video as originally recorded. As far as I'm concerned it would originally have been a static shot showing the upper half of MJ's body. No edits, no cuts, no closeups.

What we have here is a rather disjointed, jarring edit with close ups added unnecessarily and, in my opinion, done in a way that just does not feel natural. It ends up feeling that something is 'off'.

So we have to ask why the director of Leaving Neverland chose to provide closeups like that. Was it just to add emphasis?
Assuming Dan Reed put these edits in himself it's not very clever at all and it's even caused us to question the authenticity of the video message itself. This video is supposed to 'evidence' of their relationship, but as soon as you mess with evidence you degrade its value and this is a very good example of that. If the only edits are to insert closeups where none existed then it would have been more convincing to leave it in its raw, unedited state IMO.

Dan Reed doesn't appear to be very smart.

Another option is he was trying to hide something in the original video.

I'm not sure. It DOES appear to me that this is a birthday message, but it's possible that it is a shortened version of a longer video. The edits introduced could easily be used to cut out much longer parts of a speech and who knows what else would have been said in that speech. Like I said before, messing with evidence devalues it.

With these edits we don't know what the intent of that whole speech was, or what he ACTUALLY said in the overall context of that video.

For transparency Dan Reed should release the unedited video to the public, but he won't. Dan Reed doesn't like transparency. He likes smoke and mirrors much more.
 
Oprah to Host MiJac Accusers in Special; Critic Comes for Her with Stinging Rebuke
*Oprah Winfrey has decided to get in the mix as far as the two men who are now claiming that Michael Jackson sexually abused them as teens.
Winfrey, before a live audience, spoke with Jackson accusers Wade Robson and James Safechuck in an hour-long interview that will air after the second and final episode of the upcoming HBO documentary, “Leaving Neverland.”
Ever since its explosive premiere at the Sundance Film Festival in January, the production has been the subject of a lot of controversy. Narturally, the Jackson estate is not at all happy about the film, labeling it as a “tabloid character assassination” and described Robson and Safechuck as “opportunists.”
Even though the Jackson estate even filed a $100 million lawsuit against HBO and its parent company, Time Warner, to stop the airing of the 2-part documentary, itʼs not stopping the network. The show will go on as planned, meaning “Leaving Neverland” will air March 3 and 4, according to The Hollywood Reporter.
TENSE: RASHIDA TLAIB BLASTS GOPʼS MEADOWS FOR BLACK WOMAN ‘PROPʼ AT COHEN HEARING – WATCH!
najee ali & tj jackson
Najee Ali and T.J. Jackson
Needless to say, not everyone is down with Winfrey giving Robson and Safechuck a platform to tell their story. Among them is activist Najee Ali, who responded with the following essay:
“Shame on Oprah Winfrey for her participation in helping to attempt to tarnish the image and legacy of Jackson by interviewing “Leaving Neverland” Jackson accusers Wade Robson, and James Safechuck, who say that Jackson abused them as children. Our coalition is also calling for Jackson fans and supporters nation-wide to cancel their HBO subscriptions in response to the networks plans to air “Leaving Neverland” which is a two-part miniseries focusing on the allegations of the two men.
Both men supported Jackson and had previously told authorities there had been no abuse, with Robson testifying in Jacksonʼs defense at the 2005 molestation trial that ended with Jacksonʼs acquittal However Robson, and Safechuck both sued Jacksonʼs estate after the starʼs death. They were both unsuccessful in their respective lawsuits which were filed in 2013 and thrown out of court.
“Robson and Safechuck are both proven liars who are only interested in monetary gains. The lies they tell on Michael are just ludicrous. Itʼs not one shred of evidence or proof that has ever been produced that Michael abused them or anyone else. In 2005 I sat in the courtroom with members of the Jackson family and heard the lies of Michaelʼs accuser and heard Robsonʼs testimony that Michael never harmed him. For these two men to now come forward years later and with Michael dead and not able to defend and speak for himself makes it that much more important that his family, friends and supporters defend him.
“For Oprah who I have tremendous respect for, but I disagree with on this issue we say shame on you. Your televised interview of Robson and Safechuck before a live audience of real sexual abuse victims is shameful. And in the words of Jacksonʼs nephew T.J. Jackson (Titoʼs son) ‘These are the tricks they do. Reach out to real victims to be the audience so they can try to “legitimize” it and make it as real as possible. Has anyone stopped to remember that the man is dead and have NO chance to defend himself? Is Oprah seriously making herself part of this witch-hunt? Greed is a powerful ally...I wondered how long it would be before Oprah jumped on the bandwagon one minute, sheʼs all for the Jacksons and interviewing your family and next sheʼs against them.ʼ
“The Michael Jackson I knew would never harm a soul. He loved humanity and helped children all over the world. Michael wasnʼt just the King of Pop, he was a humanitarian and philanthropist who donated and helped raise millions of dollars for various charities. in my opinion his only flaw was that he was too trusting of people and lacked maturity in some areas which allowed him to fall in the trap of being sued by liars such as Robson and Safechuck.
“In 2005 I personally visited Michaelʼs former residence Neverland with my young daughter and a group of children from South Central, Los Angeles I had brought with me. Michael and his family members who were present treated the children and guests like royalty. The guests and children had the time of their lives that day because thatʼs who Michael was. Thatʼs the Michael Jackson I knew and will always love and remember.”

https://www.eurweb.com/2019/02/opra...pecial-and-one-critic-writes-stinging-rebuke/
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

The graphic detail is why I really don't want to watch. Considering they claim they want to help victims, I'm not sure victims would want to watch this?? Sounds triggering as hell. I've been in a position where I've spoken to victims of stuff like this and usually they can barely utter the words of what happened to them, even to someone anonymous over the phone or a therapist. The idea that Wade realised he'd been abused and was 'strong' enough to speak about it on tv within the space of a year seems pretty unimaginable to me but hey. If it were me I don't think I'd be able to say the graphic details in private never mind on camera.

Edit: my mum said the same thing, she's pretty open minded (usually sides with MJ for my sake lol) but when I told her about this she said 'ugh, I don't think I want to watch that'
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"


Hollywood has not seen before anything similar to what Reed has done in this movie. I don't think you will find ever a movie where a victim sits down and talks in much great details about their abuse. No wonder this was their reaction. I myself felt sick when I watched sleepers and it was not remotely as graphic as this one is. The problem no one even questions that. Why? Why no one questions that? Instead they have accepted everything in that documentary as the ultimate truth because it is so graphic. Let's see what will be the public reaction but the public lost its mind when they saw mj holding Gavin's hand on national tv so God knows what will be their reaction once this is shown.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

ATTENTION!!!

NEW VIDEO FROM "MEAN MACHINE" CHANNEL!!!

IT NEEDS TO HAVE CLICKS OVER CLICKS TIL SUNDAY (in my opinion)!!!
PLEASE SUPPORT IT!


Their other videos are also great and needs support!
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"


It seems like Reed has done all he can to make it as horrifying as it can be, two men showing some (I guess) good acting, making it believeable along with absolutely disgusting graphic details likely taken from Guitierrez's book and I am not surprised one bit that all those reviews call it a harrowing watch and all that crap.

But it's also clear that these reviews fail to recognize that it's one sided, zero actual evidence and it really seems they don't know the background of these two at all.

Unbelievable indeed, unbelievable that they are all falling for it. Is this partly thanks to the #MeToo kind of way of thinking today? Really seems to me that if a "doc" had been made out of Arvizo's allegations it would have gotten amazing reviews as well.

I wish I was allowed to say what I want to scream out here that I wish on these three people. But that would be reason for a banning of my account and I don't want that... but... holy shit....it's ugly what I want for these three.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Hollywood has not seen before anything similar to what Reed has done in this movie. I don't think you will find ever a movie where a victim sits down and talks in much great details about their abuse. No wonder this was their reaction. I myself felt sick when I watched sleepers and it was not remotely as graphic as this one is. The problem no one even questions that. Why? Why no one questions that? Instead they have accepted everything in that documentary as the ultimate truth because it is so graphic. Let's see what will be the public reaction but the public lost its mind when they saw mj holding Gavin's hand on national tv so God knows what will be their reaction once this is shown.

It's truly mind-blowing that they all take it at face value. Hey nevermind that the man was fully acquitted, nevermind the fact that he had a lot of vultures around him, obviously, let's all just ignore that and believe this straight away because it's so damn graphic.

Are these reviewers just that ****ing gullible and stupid? No red flags appear that tell them "hey wait a minute, you guys defended him all your life. Wait Wade, you didn't realize it was abuse at 20? Wait guys, why wait exactly ten years after his death?"

If that's how those reviewers are then they have a lot to learn, **** them. Hope people watching it next week have some brains in their heads that are still functioning properly.

ATTENTION!!!

NEW VIDEO FROM "MEAN MACHINE" CHANNEL!!!

IT NEEDS TO HAVE CLICKS OVER CLICKS TIL SUNDAY (in my opinion)!!!
PLEASE SUPPORT IT!


Their other videos are also great and needs support!

I just posted this on my Facebook. I'll check the rest out too and post that as well.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Reed is on the Today Show this morning and the comments are still sceptical and not in their favours which is great. God PLEASE help people see through their lies. :praying
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

If it's as horrific as people are claiming how the hell can they say they had no idea it was abuse. Surely something like that would really mess up a person. Similar to what happened to Corey Haim. They claim to have been abused 100's of time but he still wanted to participate in Janets tribute and attend the funeral. Come on!!

My friends have now picked up on this and both have said it's bullshit and they don't believe the accusers. I'm hoping more people will question them.
 
Blondie;4243904 said:
The graphic detail is why I really don't want to watch. Considering they claim they want to help victims, I'm not sure victims would want to watch this?? Sounds triggering as hell. I've been in a position where I've spoken to victims of stuff like this and usually they can barely utter the words of what happened to them, even to someone anonymous over the phone or a therapist. The idea that Wade realised he'd been abused and was 'strong' enough to speak about it on tv within the space of a year seems pretty unimaginable to me but hey. If it were me I don't think I'd be able to say the graphic details in private never mind on camera.

Edit: my mum said the same thing, she's pretty open minded (usually sides with MJ for my sake lol) but when I told her about this she said 'ugh, I don't think I want to watch that'
And more than that. He testified for the defence in 2005 and wasn’t triggered and didn’t realize there was anything wrong with it.
 
It’s actually scary, the power the media has. This whole episode just shows how they can completely bend and shape the narrative in whatever way they want.

It was awful even when MJ was alive and on trial, but at least back then he was able to defend himself and defamation laws gave some protection. He is fair game now for anything. Literally anyone who has had a passing connection with MJ will now feel emboldened to come forward and lie. The media will lap it up and believe it.

There should be defamation laws for the deceased.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

It's truly mind-blowing that they all take it at face value. Hey nevermind that the man was fully acquitted, nevermind the fact that he had a lot of vultures around him, obviously, let's all just ignore that and believe this straight away because it's so damn graphic.

Are these reviewers just that ****ing gullible and stupid? No red flags appear that tell them "hey wait a minute, you guys defended him all your life. Wait Wade, you didn't realize it was abuse at 20? Wait guys, why wait exactly ten years after his death?"

If that's how those reviewers are then they have a lot to learn, **** them. Hope people watching it next week have some brains in their heads that are still functioning properly.

Most aren't interest in facts,this has been going on too long now.
It's easier to run with these scandalous stories than to try and find out what really happened.
These scumbags are in a business were nothing but profit matter's and how they get that is continuing with lies rather than facts.

This is not going to stop.

As I have countered with people elsewhere....if the Santa Barbara police files,FBI files and a judge and jury can't convince you of the truth.....I ain't going to.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I found this short video now about Oprah and LN from a very small channel with only 4 subscribers
What a sick criminal mafia this is!


The video says that oprah maybe simply hates black men because she was abused from two.

These Antony King is produceing Videos now.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

What baffles me is that seemingly none of these reviewers saw the runtime of 4 hours and thought... "well damn, four hours? This man must really have it in for MJ." and instead of looking these two guys up because "hey, where were they when it really mattered, why now?" they just all blindly believe it. My guess is that Reed and the two liars really cover that well with their "evolving memories" bullshit. Sigh.
 
La74;4243923 said:

She’s not the only one. About all of the YouTube clips I’ve seen so far are pro-MJ. When this airs, we must continue to fight. We got our voices too, and we will not be silenced. Either way, they can’t hide forever. Their true colors are already coming out.

Heard “Heartbreak Hotel” on the radio yesterday, and I hardly ever listen to the radio. Got my iPod, but lately streaming songs and short films from YouTube for more likes and views
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

What baffles me is that seemingly none of these reviewers saw the runtime of 4 hours and thought... "well damn, four hours? This man must really have it in for MJ." and instead of looking these two guys up because "hey, where were they when it really mattered, why now?" they just all blindly believe it. My guess is that Reed and the two liars really cover that well with their "evolving memories" bullshit. Sigh.
Because it is about $$$$$$$$$$$$$. But again, I believe regular folks will see through BS. Even with this going around promoting this trash like Wade and james doing is so transparent. People are not crazy.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

So the Washington Post is calling out Michaels brothers and Taj for defending "their golden goose"....and fails to mention any money involved with the "victims" lawsuit, how fitting?


That person from the Washington Post might be getting paid to say what he/she say. MJ's family can defend MJ. This fool does not know Wade or James yet he want to defend them and their lies. Trump calls the Washington post Fake media as well.
 
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