Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

[Carefreedo]

Hello all, first post but been a fan all my life, finally decided to write and not just lurk.

I was at work, talking about football (Chelsea fan) in a group of five when somebody pipes up and asks people’s opinion on Michael Jackson after this documentary. I’ll admit my heart dropped a little as I braced for the worst but then everybody, and I mean from the girl in her twenties to the bloke in his fifties, said they do not believe this b.s. and are convinced it’s about the money. And let me be clear, these people were not clued up on all the facts but were aware that these snakes were after a huge payout. I then proceeded to put forward all the facts even though there was no battle that needed winning here. They were engrossed.

I thought I would highlight this during a time where I have read doubts on this forum from a couple of his fans. There are plenty of non mj fans who do not believe this tosh. All is not lost.

Oh yeah, went for a curry last night, Liberian Girl came on. Not an eyelid batted. Pfff, mute Michael lol.

 

[aqwsz]

I think the lack of viewers comes from the enormous length of the film

 

[WildStyle]

I will say to those saying that they can't understand how some MJ fans have all of a sudden started questioning their views on these allegations after seeing this movie after going through 1993 and 2005... well, you can't understand unless you watch the movie. I don't believe Michael did these things, but admit that as a movie it does come across as very convincing (part 2 at least).

Unrelated... but I heard my mum playing a youtube video just before with Michael singing Tabloid Junkie and the honesty and pain in his voice and in the lyrics made me cry. I just want to scream out to all the people that really knew Michael to come forward and speak.

 

[mjchris]

About this pic. I do think it is fake. Look at Shafechuck's hand. It seems odd and not comfortable for him to put on Michael's shoulder like that at all. Usually ppl hold it around the waist if they are so small. Also look at their hairlines as well. Hair is the most difficult to cut off. It looks blurred where the fair touched Michael.

it looks natural, and not like a fake.
and its not hair that touches Michael on the Jacket.

 

[somewhereinthedark]

it looks natural, and not like a fake.
and its not hair that touches Michael on the Jacket.

Yes, it looks fake.

 

[mjchris]

Yes, it looks fake.

Why?????

 

[MJInnocent]

Not saying that you are not a fan cause I don't know you. But a 100% fan wouldn't remove his music. Ok, you can not agree with some of Michael's action but what has music anything to do with his actions?

Now more than ever you should be playing his music.
I have had a big playlist on Spotify on repeat and listening in work(when I really shouldn't)

The car,at home too,if you need strength then I find MJ's music has helped.

Turn it up and remember why you loved this man to begin with.

Forget the nonsense!

 

[terrell]

One thing though, now that Matt Groening(irrc) removed the MJ stuff from The Simpsons, this will obviously already affect some profits for the estate, not to mention radio stations pulling his music. This can't be what the estate wants. Surely they can do something? For all we know they are busy with things behind the scenes. But man, being so powerless and while almost on a daily basis now seeing all these things about statues being removed, songs pulled from radio and now this The Simpsons stuff.... just sucks so much!

They will put it back later. It is best to let this trash down down first. the more the trash of these liars come out the better. Even the Cosby show is back on tv after being pulled for a couple of months but they are back on doing great.

 

[Cinnamon234]

Now more than ever you should be playing his music.
I have had a big playlist on Spotify on repeat and listening in work(when I really shouldn't)

The car,at home too,if you need strength then I find MJ's music has helped.

Turn it up and remember why you loved this man to begin with.

Forget the nonsense!

Yep! I have been playing his music more than ever now

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

They will put it back later. It is best to let this trash down down first. the more the trash of these liars come out the better. Even the Cosby show is back on tv after being pulled for a couple of months but they are back on doing great.

I had no idea about Cosby Show, that is quite something. I admire your optimism and I should try to have some of that myself. Listen to some Mike especially!

It's superb that the lies of these guys are coming out more, problem is that it's not being picked up (on purpose) by the MSM. What they DID do for Jussie Smollett they aren't doing for Michael at all. I wonder it will take for the MSM to pick this up, if they'll ever.

 

[dam2040]

I think many people would feel the same if the Arvizo’s were presented in a doc one sided. And look what happened there

You need the other side of the story

 

[magic]

it looks natural, and not like a fake.
and its not hair that touches Michael on the Jacket.

Ok, but it is Shafechuck's hair that touches the jacket. It is still blurry. I believe it is his mother on the other side. she has fur or something. The same as hair, hard to cut out. Still blur.

 

[somewhereinthedark]

Yes, it looks fake.

I looked at it again, it is DEFINENTLY fake!! Look at the hand on Michael’s shoulder. FAKE!!!

There is no way that hand can be Safechuck’s on Michael’s shoulder. He’s too short for his arm and hand to be in that contorted position. It can’t be his mothers hand because of the same position. This is a FAKE picuture , just as Everything that these two pathological liars have claimed. If Dan Reed faked and altered a photo to fit this fraudomentary, just think of the acting and SCRIPT that was used to bait, and bamboozle a weak and gullible audience. These people are criminals for perpetuating a HOAX, in order to extort $$$$$$$.

 

[Smooth72]

With the all “pure ignorance” comment... that’s ignorant and all. Michael used to say that quite often.

The Estate won the case did it not due to the passing of time and the fact that because Michael was no longer here so therefore no blame could be put on the estate.

You can keep posting facts but if people believe that he is guilty then they will.

My opinions of Michael have changed. It’s about trying to separate the man from the music now for me. He was the greatest entertainer in the world no doubt about it and brought so much joy to my life for years.

I can no longer be blinded by my feelings for him as a singer and live a lie that his behaviour was normal and ok to sleep with children. I’ll prob be banned after this post but I’ve accepted it.

I’ve already removed all of the Jackson Five, Jacksons and MJ stuff from my phones as I just can’t listen to it at the moment.

I’ve still got the physical stuff like cd’s , DVD’s , even a bloody opus but I guess the best thing for me is to remove myself from the temptation for now.

You are questionable friend. Respectfully you should find a new forum.

 

[MJInnocent]

I see Louis Theroux had it again on Twitter.
I used to find some of his shows interesting.....I'm done watching them from now on.

 

[mjchris]

Ok, but it is Shafechuck's hair that touches the jacket. It is still blurry. I believe it is his mother on the other side. she has fur or something. The same as hair, hard to cut out. Still blur.

no, its not different blurry. its everywhere on the photo the same.
and there is not hair that touches michael. Hair is only on her body, around her neck.
Thats not a fake.

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

You are questionable friend. Respectfully you should find a new forum.

I seriously don't get it either. This person acts like we just blindly defend him and I believe he/she also said that we would still defend him if there was actual evidence. What a utterly ridiculous thing to even say, no way in hell would I defend someone like that. It's the actual years of research and now all the new things coming out about these two men that strengthens my trust in Michael.

I'm still very much wondering what this person is basing all these doubts on. If you're seriously getting rid of MJ stuff now, that's just goddamn sad, sorry. Again... BASED ON WHAT? Speed Demon are you now willingly ignoring all that we have on these men? NEVER FORGET THAT THEY KNOW HOW TO ACT!

MJ: Zero evidence against him.
Wade and James: Tons of facts and evidence too.

Let's be real now!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

@Speed_Demon87

Please take your own advice that you posted earlier today. Take a break from all this. If you don't want to listen to MJ, that's fine, do not get rid of any stuff because boy oh boy are you going to regret that.

If you still can't stay away from all this, READ UP ON THESE SUCKERS. Read Charles Thomson's piece again, there is so much about these two men. If we actually were dealing with NORMAL men, who never changed their story multiple times, well then you're doubts would be more understandable.

But if you ignore all the advice given to you and that you gave yourself,... then I don't know anymore.

 

[magic]

no, its not different blurry. its everywhere on the photo the same.
and there is not hair that touches michael. Hair is only on her body, around her neck.
Thats not a fake.

Shafechuck's hair.

 

[Bink]

I have seen a couple of people on Twitter suggest that it has been confirmed that Harvey Weinstein, David Geffen and Oprah Winfrey financed LN. Does anyone know if this has actually been confirmed? If so, then THAT is the smoking gun as far as I can see. If true then we need to be shouting it from the rooftops.

 

[aqwsz]

I seriously don't get it either. This person acts like we just blindly defend him and I believe he/she also said that we would still defend him if there was actual evidence. What a utterly ridiculous thing to even say, no way in hell would I defend someone like that. It's the actual years of research and now all the new things coming out about these two men that strengthens my trust in Michael.

I'm still very much wondering what this person is basing all these doubts on. If you're seriously getting rid of MJ stuff now, that's just goddamn sad, sorry. Again... BASED ON WHAT? Speed Demon are you now willingly ignoring all that we have on these men? NEVER FORGET THAT THEY KNOW HOW TO ACT!

MJ: Zero evidence against him.
Wade and James: Tons of facts and evidence too.

Let's be real now!!!!!!!!!!

It's no secret that I side with Speed_Demon87, I think we are unfairly attacked for having doubts. I'm only back for 1 hour and I already got a threat for a ban.
I have said earlier that I'd probably stop listening to MJ's music if he were guilty. I changed my mind about that. I think art should be separated from the man. That's why I became a fan in the first place, for his music not for his personality. I still enjoy films like "Ed Wood" even though Depp is a supposed wife beater.
So I say I should still enjoy MJ's music too as he is not the only one working on a record.
I change my stance on things regularly because I'm only human

 

[aqwsz]

I have seen a couple of people on Twitter suggest that it has been confirmed that Harvey Weinstein, David Geffen and Oprah Winfrey financed LN. Does anyone know if this has actually been confirmed? If so, then THAT is the smoking gun as far as I can see. If true then we need to be shouting it from the rooftops.

I truly hope this is true and not made up but it's most probably the latter.

 

[magic]

I honestly don't think this is where you should spread your doubt about Michael. There is another thread about that as far as I know. Unless you want to seek the evidence that prof that they are lying. But as far as I can see, you already made up your mind. But you hurt other fans by saying those things. It is already hard enough for those who believe in Michael as well. So why make it harder?

 

[wendijane]

To be honest Stephanie safechuck came across as a selfish, sinister showmother wannabe. I am not fooled nor taken in by jimmy safechuck either. Very creepy man.

 

[AG5050]

If people feel others are trolling then you should use the report button. Exlimation mark in triangle

I find it odd how ppl can doubt mj now but didnt in 03,93. When this is possibly the least credible of all the accusations.(not that the others had any

Agreed, that short clip of Gavin talking about what allegedly happening was more believable than any of Wade & James testimony, and we all know how ludicrous the whole Arvizo saga ended up being.

 

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

I have seen a couple of people on Twitter suggest that it has been confirmed that Harvey Weinstein, David Geffen and Oprah Winfrey financed LN. Does anyone know if this has actually been confirmed? If so, then THAT is the smoking gun as far as I can see. If true then we need to be shouting it from the rooftops.

Oh please let this be true!!!
I mean they seamed to be the first people who saw LN after it aired on sundance.
People were wondering why oprah wanted to see this kind of film on her birthday?
The answer can be: She simply wanted to celebrate her project with the other friends who finanazed it!

There is also a picture in LN were MJ sits together with James on a bed.
This looked for me Photoshoped for me as well.
I have the imagination that I saw the picture somewere in an MJ video, only with MJ sitting on the bed.
Did you find other pictures who locked photoshoped?

They give the imagination that all pictures in LN are ALL private never before seen pictures from MJ.
But I think we can find some of them online.

 

[aqwsz]

I honestly don't think this is where you should spread your doubt about Michael. There is another thread about that as far as I know. Unless you want to seek the evidence that prof that they are lying. But as far as I can see, you already made up your mind. But you hurt other fans by saying those things. It is already hard enough for those who believe in Michael as well. So why make it harder?

No I haven't made my mind up and I probably never fully will. If someone says to me, the truth will be out tomorrow I'd take it, good or bad. But it should end imo because there is nothing worse than swinging from one side to the other in a matter of days and that's what I'm doing.

I post regularly in the thread that was made for doubters but sometimes I see non doubters posting in there as well, attacking our doubts. It's unfair to call us out for posting in here.

 

[mjchris]

Shafechuck's hair.

looks normal.

 

[aqwsz]

Oh please let this be true!!!
I mean they seamed to be the first people who saw LN after it aired on sundance.
People were wondering why oprah wanted to see this kind of film on her birthday?
The answer can ne: She simply wanted to celebrate her project with the other friends who finanazed it!

There is also a picture in LN were MJ sits together with James on a bed.
This looked for me Photoshoped for me as well.
I have the imagination that I saw the picture somewere in an MJ video, only wirth MJ sitting on the bed.

Let's cross our fingers for this.

 

[MJInnocent]

I have seen a couple of people on Twitter suggest that it has been confirmed that Harvey Weinstein, David Geffen and Oprah Winfrey financed LN. Does anyone know if this has actually been confirmed? If so, then THAT is the smoking gun as far as I can see. If true then we need to be shouting it from the rooftops.

If true that would be massive in pulling this documentary apart.
I'll wait and see,I'm not jumping through hoops just yet.