Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I agree. We've been through worse back then. Unfortunately, once someone is accused of something, true or false, it will stick, that's the hard part. These are TABLOIDS, they feed unto the negativity every day. I don't feed into it.
Well, we have to work with what we got and what we have these haters can NOT defete MJ. Even if someone wants to bring up about priest. How many of those victim ever defended the priest IN A COURT OF LAW? NONE. How many people ever did this even un til they were adults? NONE.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

RKelly case was all over the place. In his doc, there was very little to debate against. Rkelly has NeVER did a sit down interview (when asked, RKelly leaves). R Kelly that was his brother on the tape; the brother said it was Rkelly (see the twists and turns), if it is not neither of them, who is the guy. His marriage to AAlayah did happen (that is why RKelly NEVER proved it was a fake. He could not). RKelly was given a pass unlike MJ who had the WORLD investigating him. With MJ, WE have TAPE of his accusers lying and changing stories, etc.


I see. Crazy how the world works. At least they are actually going after R Kelly now, but that should have been from the start.

What I'll never understand is why MJ's actual brothers really aren't doing a damn thing. Why haven't they made a documentary years ago already? Wouldn't you want these horrible stories that are still believed by a lot of people debunked? They have the finances for it, so why not do it? Or is this unreasonable of me?

Especially for the sole reason that there's SO much damning facts out there about all these accusers. So much that has been proven to be bullshit. The world should know about it. A doc like THAT should have been aired at Sundance instead.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

we have been through worse but this has to be one of the worse things since the trial.. nothing would be as bad as those days, but this is still F'd up majorly..
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

we have been through worse but this has to be one of the worse things since the trial.. nothing would be as bad as those days, but this is still F'd up majorly..

Yeah, its just REALLY shit now, and mud will stick, but this will pass, once the Estate and Family get involved
 
dmehta;4238030 said:
So, naturally everyone here is feeling angry, dejected, worried etc. However, we have to keep grounded and just hope that this will pass. We’ve been through far worse times as fans (2003-2005 was awful), and post ‘93/settlement were also dark days.

We have the truth and bucket loads of evidence on our side.
This is more anger for me than fear or worried because Michael has been through one of the worst investigations in system, in a public forum, etc than a KILLER since 1993. And I am sorry, I am not buying all of this " this film is so powerful". Everyone says that to boost their feeling but again WE HAVE THE FACTS on our side. This is NO RKelly case. This is no Bill Cosby's case. This is no OJ case (two people were murdered); This a Michael Jackson case who has been investigated by the Police, the FBI who found NOTHING not even other accusers; the public, DFACS, etc. And Wade and James can pretend to shed tears all they want (I have been in courts and trials, that is typical of liars to play up their lies. Just finish a case where the mother was trying to paint the father as no good but how can she paint him as no good when she does not work and even people in your own family are saying you wrong IN COURT. And yes, she was crying. The judge was NOT buying and ruled JOINT CUSTODY.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

yeah, I just hope the estate actually does something.. Not just say it's stupid! DEFEND the man for real.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Don't read the reviews.

Leaving Neverland apparently has nothing as far as legitimate evidence goes, other than circumstantial "voice recordings" and "handwritten memos" that don't indicate anything shocking or abhorrent. But even so, every review says it's "incredibly believable" and that Robson/Safechuck are "true survivors."

This is bad. This is very, very, very bad.
 
innuendo141;4238039 said:
Yeah, its just REALLY shit now, and mud will stick, but this will pass, once the Estate and Family get involved

I’ve kept saying we and the Estate should not draw more attention to this, and I still stand by that. But IF this blows up, particularly after it’s shown on HBO/Channel 4, the Estate will have to pipe up and start actually exposing Wade and Jimmy’s lies. It hasn’t blown up yet. But it may do.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Yeah, its just REALLY shit now, and mud will stick, but this will pass, once the Estate and Family get involved
And there are plenty of people to knock this down even in the media.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Don't read the reviews.

This is bad. This is very, very, very bad.

Again, what else should we expect? The film is of two people claiming child sexual abuse with no cross examination or defence of Mike. It was always going to be bad.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

They are saying that this documentary is so powerful in explaining to what length victims would go to protect their abusers and be in denial about their abuse. Of course for those who watched that doc to reach such conclusion one must assume that they are indeed victims. Because it does seem that they are accepting everything they have shown at face value and drawing wild conclusions from it. So instead of questioning why these two have denied any wrong doing for decades, now that's no longer an issue because this film is presented as the ultimate evidence of the extreme length victims could go to protect their abusers. Insane.

"They are very credible" because "they have very similar stories". Really stupid argument Sneddon's tactics all over again: "look at the full picture jurors he is weird he dangled his baby over the balcony, he has 6 employees witnessing him molest kids, Gavins said so, he is a cancer survivor, Star said this, Blanca said that' but details! no need to pay attention to details at all because once you do everything crumbles. The media left the court room in 2005 after the taped interview of Gavin was played convinced that MJ did it and according to everyone who watched gavin was so believable and mj was doomed. One issue though he told a story in that interview different than the one he told on the stand and the jurors picked on that despite the judge instructions to "only pay attention to his demeanour". His demeanour was of a victim apparently but he was a liar and the jurors did not need to look anywhere except at his own testimony to reach that conclusion. But the jurors were seekers of the truth not media pundits with an agenda who went there for one reason and one reason only and that is to confirm what they have already believed. guilty
And no doc should take the place over no courtroom especially in the way MJ was treated and investigated.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

The estates has the means to do a big scale documentary exposing everything but that would mean upsetting Branca buddies the like of Winstien. Branca will never do anything on the scale of this documentary. It is going to be a small press release as usual efending MJ's name will be left to the fans.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Well, we have to work with what we got and what we have these haters can NOT defete MJ. Even if someone wants to bring up about priest. How many of those victim ever defended the priest IN A COURT OF LAW? NONE. How many people ever did this even un til they were adults? NONE.

I agree. Even Michael himself had said it would be frustrating not to dispel every rumor out there. The trial was on blast everywhere around 2003-2005, it was crazy! Like this one, we will get through this storm. Even with Michael gone, his soldiers of love are still marching!
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

great title for an MJ documentary apposing this.. Michael Jackson: The Cross examination
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I agree. Even Michael himself had said it would be frustrating not to dispel every rumor out there. The trial was on blast everywhere around 2003-2005, it was crazy! Like this one, we will get through this storm. Even with Michael gone, his soldiers of love are still marching!
I know. I just want us to keep this is perspective. right now, our focus in America is the Government opening back up and Roger stone being arrested.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

great title for an MJ documentary apposing this.. Michael Jackson: The Cross examination
I hope this gets done. It long over due anyway. And I will say it again, JORDAN, THIS IS WHAT YOUR LIE CREATED.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Again, what else should we expect? The film is of two people claiming child sexual abuse with no cross examination or defence of Mike. It was always going to be bad.

I expected it to be bad, but I didn't expect it to be THIS bad.

Absolutely nobody is on Michael's side as far as the media goes. According to the reviews, the entire documentary is hearsay and doesn't provide a single piece of legitimate evidence, but journalists are pushing that aside in favor of how "emotional" and "graphic" it is.

I'm at a loss for words truthfully.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I expected it to be bad, but I didn't expect it to be THIS bad.

Absolutely nobody is on Michael's side as far as the media goes. According to the reviews, the entire documentary is hearsay and doesn't provide a single piece of legitimate evidence, but journalists are pushing that aside in favor of how "emotional" and "graphic" it is.

I'm at a loss for words truthfully.

Because the agenda is to divert the attention back to MJ from real predators. They have been selected and invited to the premier to push this agenda.
 
AlwaysThere;4238053 said:
I expected it to be bad, but I didn't expect it to be THIS bad.

Absolutely nobody is on Michael's side as far as the media goes. According to the reviews, the entire documentary is hearsay and doesn't provide a single piece of legitimate evidence, but journalists are pushing that aside in favor of how "emotional" and "graphic" it is.

I'm at a loss for words truthfully.

I understand, but it was ALWAYS going to be this bad. What else is a reviewer meant to say? They’re reviewing the film, not conducting an in depth analysis on the merits of the accusations.

These same journalists said Gavin Arvizo’s testimony was “riveting” and “devastating”, but a jury - who had to abide by the LAW - found him not guilty.

For the sake of your own health, I would not read the reviews.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Well we are also freaking out because we have not watched the film nor do we know what we will have to defend against really.. Until we see it! our imaginations will take us to negative places naturally.

PS. its not the journalists we worry about, its the audience members that are acting like they just saw a sex tape when they didn't.. It gets us even more curious what strings they pulled and how far did they go to manipulate Mikes image.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

So mj threatened Safe**** mom and told her "he always gets what he wants" (can you even imagine mj telling that to anyone!) he forced her to allow him to take James with him on tour! like seriously! They are all in this lie now. The whole family has changed its stories not only the so called victims. This needs a rebuttal and it would backfire big time. the estates should have access to the testimony of james' mom in 1993.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I know. I just want us to keep this is perspective. right now, our focus in America is the Government opening back up and Roger stone being arrested.

Yes! Even the mainstream media here isn't making a huge fuss about this, so for the sake of everyone's health, don't dwell on this too hard. We already know the truth!
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I expected it to be bad, but I didn't expect it to be THIS bad.

Absolutely nobody is on Michael's side as far as the media goes. According to the reviews, the entire documentary is hearsay and doesn't provide a single piece of legitimate evidence, but journalists are pushing that aside in favor of how "emotional" and "graphic" it is.

I'm at a loss for words truthfully.
This really has not blew up other than gossip papers and shows. But you just said the reviews is hearsay and does not provide a single piece of legitimated evidence. Of course they are going to make it graphic (they want to make money) but that will only prove they are full of it. Claiming someone did such a thing yet defended them most your life even after he died until they needed money. And that will be looked at if this grows. Sidenote: I see where the producer/director of the Freddie Mercury is doing accused. See, people are getting tired of this
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Hearsay and audio recordings, presumably created in a way to make him look guilty. Combined with made up graphic explanations I can see how people that aren't in the know about anything outside of this doc, may believe it. If only they truly knew.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Anyone who sees the documentary will believe wade and james. No case of abuse has "legitimate evidence" , that is impossible, in an abuse the evidence is the trauma, facts lived, most of cases there is no proof of that except the abused's word and its history. I want to see the documentary and know exactly what counts, but without seeing it it is not difficult to guess that there will not be anyone who believes in michael except the fans, it does not matter if the fans believe in it or not, for the rest of the world nobody think that two boys plays with a child abuse involving their entire family and counting such a detailed abuse if it has not been abused.
another reason for the world to see that they only want to tell the world his true. The people will believe in wade And James.


I do not understand the silence of the brothers of michael, absolute silence, maybe they feel tired or maybe they think that this is not their war, but why nobody defends it except jermaine and his nephews?
Anyone know about the fan who had tickets to see the documentary and comment everything? Have you said anything about it?
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

So mj threatened Safe**** mom and told her "he always gets what he wants" (can you even imagine mj telling that to anyone!) he forced her to allow him to take James with him on tour! like seriously! They are all in this lie now. The whole family has changed its stories not only the so called victims. This needs a rebuttal and it would backfire big time. the estates should have access to the testimony of james' mom in 1993.
That first line is a joke. MJ threatened. I can hear people fallin out in laughter over that.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

So mj threatened Safe**** mom and told her "he always gets what he wants" (can you even imagine mj telling that to anyone!) he forced her to allow him to take James with him on tour! like seriously! They are all in this lie now. The whole family has changed its stories not only the so called victims. This needs a rebuttal and it would backfire big time. the estates should have access to the testimony of james' mom in 1993.

Where did you hear that?
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Anyone who sees the documentary will believe wade and james. No case of abuse has "legitimate evidence" , that is impossible, in an abuse the evidence is the trauma, facts lived, most of cases there is no proof of that except the abused's word and its history. I want to see the documentary and know exactly what counts, but without seeing it it is not difficult to guess that there will not be anyone who believes in michael except the fans, it does not matter if the fans believe in it or not, for the rest of the world nobody plays with a child abuse involving their entire family and counting such a detailed abuse if it has not been abused, they have not charged for the documentary, another reason for the world to see that they only want to tell the world what they have lived because they do not want to keep it quiet and robson still has things to call it money search but james nada.lo see from the fanatical point of view and because you are documented about wade, but do not think that michael carries five complaints and that for people are many years of suspicion, is not the For the first time, no one will believe that Michael was innocent except his fans and relatives, so people will see it.


I do not understand the silence of the brothers of michael, absolute silence, maybe they feel tired or maybe they think that this is not their war, but why nobody defends it except jermaine and his nephews?
Anyone know about the fan who had tickets to see the documentary and comment everything? Have you said anything about it?
again, these are the same guys who defended Jackson and was creditable. That is the differences.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Anyone who sees the documentary will believe wade and james. No case of abuse has "legitimate evidence" , that is impossible, in an abuse the evidence is the trauma, facts lived, most of cases there is no proof of that except the abused's word and its history. I want to see the documentary and know exactly what counts, but without seeing it it is not difficult to guess that there will not be anyone who believes in michael except the fans, it does not matter if the fans believe in it or not, for the rest of the world nobody think that two boys plays with a child abuse involving their entire family and counting such a detailed abuse if it has not been abused, they have not charged for the documentary, another reason for the world to see that they only want to tell the world what they have lived because they do not want to keep it quiet and robson still has things to call it money search but james nada.lo see from the fanatical point of view and because you are documented about wade, but do not think that michael carries five complaints and that for people are many years of suspicion, is not the For the first time, no one will believe that Michael was innocent except his fans and relatives, so people will see it.


I do not understand the silence of the brothers of michael, absolute silence, maybe they feel tired or maybe they think that this is not their war, but why nobody defends it except jermaine and his nephews?
Anyone know about the fan who had tickets to see the documentary and comment everything? Have you said anything about it?

I don't understand it either. Nobody from the Jacksons, and I don't believe we have heard his children about it either. But then, I don't know how much they post on social media, if they do it at all. I'm sure they have their reasons for staying quiet, but still. I can't deny that i definitely expected at least one or two messages of support towards their father.

I'm glad Twitter had tons of people supporting MJ before the doc aired. Like that tweet from Safechuck's own nephew it was? That's good stuff.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I don't understand it either. Nobody from the Jacksons, and I don't believe we have heard his children about it either. But then, I don't know how much they post on social media, if they do it at all. I'm sure they have their reasons for staying quiet, but still. I can't deny that i definitely expected at least one or two messages of support towards their father.

I'm glad Twitter had tons of people supporting MJ before the doc aired. Like that tweet from Safechuck's own nephew it was? That's good stuff.
Sometimes there is a time to be quite and there is a time to speak.
 
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